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Old 15th November 2013, 13:02   #136
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Originally Posted by jyobeb View Post
It would be better to weld an anchor arm to the chassis and bolt the rollcage to the anchor arms.
Woukd you mind sharing how much you paid for the twin cab?
Ok sir. Got the idea and sounds good. Will try to work on that later. I personally feel that they do spoil the look of the vehicle if not executed well.

I had picked tons of other stuff along with it for two jeeps hence rounded the amount to 17k on the cab for the final nett.

Problem with some otrs is the height of the vehicle with the branches. Thats why had dropped that off.

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Old 15th November 2013, 14:47   #137
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Originally Posted by commander View Post
Thanks Sreejesh. It has about two inches space between the cab and boot. Both are independently mounted on the chassis.
Amazing pace of work. The end product is looking good and well proportioned. My humble 2 cents on the external roll cage

1. I have observed loaded pickups sway a lot when going over pot holes. The separation in the cab and load bay helps the chassis to flex. Cab and load bay would often sway in opposite sides. You have connected the two with your roll cage at top. Not sure what kind of torsional stress it would take.

2. Kindly reconsider the connection of roll cage to bonnet. In the current setup the mount will be loaded at an angle and will either shear off or the pipe connection will give way. Check the suggested connection below which will be much stronger IMHO. Looks better as well.
Make a L shaped base plate and screw it from top as well as side and use a similar plate from inside as well sandwiching the body.

My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-20131114_130532.jpg
cheers
Vishwas
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Old 15th November 2013, 16:04   #138
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Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post


1. I have observed loaded pickups sway a lot when going over pot holes. The separation in the cab and load bay helps the chassis to flex. Cab and load bay would often sway in opposite sides. You have connected the two with your roll cage at top. Not sure what kind of torsional stress it would take.

2. Kindly reconsider the connection of roll cage to bonnet. In the current setup the mount will be loaded at an angle and will either shear off or the pipe connection will give way. Check the suggested connection below which will be much stronger IMHO. Looks better as well.
Make a L shaped base plate and screw it from top as well as side and use a similar plate from inside as well sandwiching the body.

cheers
Vishwas
Sir very good observation.

1. I didnt see that one coming. Think think think.

2. I was planning to fabricate a triangle shape wedge to be welded there for stay. Thanks for your inputs.

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Old 15th November 2013, 17:21   #139
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Default Re: My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..

Dear Bharani - BE CAREFUL. External roll cage will be very dangerous if not made properly and you roll. Yours is not made properly at all.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 15th November 2013, 18:43   #140
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Agree with DB Sir, Vishwas. Though I have no prior experience, I think the rollcage needs to bent and not welded at the curves.
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Old 16th November 2013, 10:16   #141
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Thank you sirs for your inputs. I was of the impression that providing gussets at the joints would give the added strength. My other option now is finish the entire frame and redo the bends alone after creating the framework.

I leave for work on monday for a couple of weeks. Wanted to finish few mounting points so that I leave it for paint during that time. Thats the reason for the pace as well as the curse of the tinker.

After viswas had mentioned the flaws in the rollcage, I told them to scrap all the mounts and that we need to start working from the chassis. I dont know what got to the person(gruffy guy) who cuts the metal for us, "sir dont think too much, you will become like Abdul kalam". For a second there was silence and my friend asks him what is wrong with that. All of us burst out laughing and finally managed to bring some cheer to resume work again

Regards
Barani
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Old 16th November 2013, 11:42   #142
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Default Hoop

Hi Barani,

Please research the roll-cage design.

The load bearing structure of the roll cage is a hoop.

i.e a single piece tube running from LHS A/B/C Pillar to RHS A/B/C Pillar.

These Hoops have to be strengthened, by connecting them to each other and the body shell or chassis depending on the design.

http://www.nwhydroshots.virfx.net/links/rcd101.htm

Regards,

Arka
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File Type: pdf RolloverProtectionDrawingMaster060428.pdf (892.8 KB, 194 views)
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Old 16th November 2013, 14:34   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commander View Post
I dont know what got to the person(gruffy guy) who cuts the metal for us, "sir dont think too much, you will become like Abdul kalam".
I know the resistance you get from workers when directing them to do the work your way. I normally try and be firm with them while being polite to drive my point through.

Between a weld and hot bending the pipe, the weld will be any day stronger in theory as their would be loss of material integrity on heating and external side of bend looses material thickness.
That being said the quality of welding in India leaves a lot to be desired. Starting from the quality of rods used to welding methods to fabrication. The gaping holes in the crop from picture of your build are worrisome. These would normally be filled with welding or paint filler.

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If going the welding way kindly use wrap of same thickness MS sheet over the joints (Like a socket connection) and weld from both sides.

You can choose between mounting on body or chassis. Both have their pro and cons. I personally prefer mounting on body.

cheers
Vishwas
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Old 16th November 2013, 18:00   #144
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Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post

I know the resistance you get from workers when directing them to do the work your way.

Between a weld and hot bending the pipe, the weld will be any day stronger in theory as their would be loss of material integrity on heating and external side of bend looses material thickness.


That being said the quality of welding in India leaves a lot to be desired. Starting from the quality of rods used to welding methods to fabrication. The gaping holes in the crop from picture of your build are worrisome. These would normally be filled with welding or paint filler.


You can choose between mounting on body or chassis. Both have their pro and cons. I personally prefer mounting on body.

cheers
Vishwas

Getting your point across and reworking on the same makes it all that much harder. But end of the day, its human nature so we just have to move on.

I did have my doubts on bending the pipe and thought pipes with gussets would be good enough. Have put the rollcage on hold as of now to learn more and work on that when I get back.

Sirji, this is WIP and all pics put are just a sample of the outcome. I was trying to get the alignment and shape of the framework ready to match the outlook of the Jeep. Final outcome would be completely electric welded with gussets and support frames.

And finally, Im not trying to build the ultimate offroad machine nor want my Commander to be professional spec. I understand the limitations of the vehicle and would like to carry out a design theme that not only gels with the Jeep but also makes sense. That was the reason why I moved from body to chassis, and my design for rollcage will be very minimalistic to suit my primary purpose only.

Regards
Barani
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Old 17th November 2013, 01:27   #145
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Default Re: My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..

OK let me give this disclaimer before I start to stop any brickbats my way.

I AM NO EXPERT ON ROLL CAGES & HAVE VERY LIMITED TO NIL OFFROADING EXPERIENCE. I have a decent understanding of metal structures though - both designing and fabrication - and trying to implement it here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by commander View Post
I did have my doubts on bending the pipe and thought pipes with gussets would be good enough.
I think welding is OK. But rather than gussets go for sleeve to increase the surface area. With a pipe this thin gussets can do more harm than good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by commander View Post
Sirji, this is WIP and all pics put are just a sample of the outcome. I was trying to get the alignment and shape of the framework ready to match the outlook of the Jeep. Final outcome would be completely electric welded with gussets and support frames.
Thanks for clarifying


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Originally Posted by commander View Post
And finally, Im not trying to build the ultimate offroad machine nor want my Commander to be professional spec. I understand the limitations of the vehicle and would like to carry out a design theme that not only gels with the Jeep but also makes sense. That was the reason why I moved from body to chassis, and my design for rollcage will be very minimalistic to suit my primary purpose only.
HAHAHAHAHAH....
Sir you are running a SPOA with traction bar (executed beautifully), OKBJ in the front with a MRCBT steering and now adding a closed cabin with boot. Your ride is already a formidable offroader, now you are making it a practical daily drive as well. Please don't deny it the credit

I am totally with you on the minimistic design on roll cage and building onto your basic framework I have done some crude modeling below as per my limited knowledge.
My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-roll-cage.jpg

It would be great to hear the opinion of experts here on it.

cheers
Vishwas
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Old 17th November 2013, 21:18   #146
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Default Re: My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post

I am totally with you on the minimistic design on roll cage and building onto your basic framework I have done some crude modeling below as per my limited knowledge.


I have a decent understanding of metal structures though - both designing and fabrication - and trying to implement it here.


I think welding is OK. But rather than gussets go for sleeve to increase the surface area. With a pipe this thin gussets can do more harm than good.



HAHAHAHAHAH....
Sir you are running a SPOA with traction bar (executed beautifully), OKBJ in the front with a MRCBT steering and now adding a closed cabin with boot. Your ride is already a formidable offroader, now you are making it a practical daily drive as well. Please don't deny it the credit


cheers
Vishwas
Thats exactly what i have in mind Sir. Moreover I did not want to use the bend design at the edges of the rollcage and love this angular look more. Kindly advice how i can weld sleeves(how long?? inner/outer??) at the joints to strengthen these areas. And similar to your design, all the notches will be supported by a horizontal pipe to the other side of the rollcage. The cross pipes at the top of the cabin are one inch higher to the rollcage.

And thanks

Regards
Barani
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Old 20th November 2013, 16:18   #147
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Default Re: My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..

Quote:
Originally Posted by commander View Post
Kindly advice how i can weld sleeves(how long?? inner/outer??) at the joints to strengthen these areas.
You need to find a matching inner dia or outer dia pipe of preferable the same thickness. Both will work fine. Inner sleeve pipe will give a cleaner look. Length should be 1.25 - 1.5 x thickness of thicker pipe both sides from the joint.

Assuming you go for an outer sleeve
Fabricate and weld the socket separately after a test fit. If needed weld the joint from inside as well. Drill holes in the socket across and assemble the whole thing. Weld the edges off and plug weld the holes for additional strength.

Once again disclaimer - I am using my experience with steel welding here. All brickbats, feedbacks are invited.

Below a cutaway section of straight pipe lap joint using plug welds.
My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-sleeve-plug-weld.jpg

Cheers
Vishwas
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Old 15th January 2014, 13:05   #148
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Here are the latest set of updates before I get to Boda event. Actually work is taking longer than expected and trying to get it up for the Bangalore event.

Painting done - Retained the same matt grey finish (windscreen and top in black) and one of the main reasons for the delay. The final coat yet to be done and will get it completed after the BODA event.

My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-20140106_141535.jpg

Rollcage : 80% completed and have gone for an external roll cage mounted on the chassis. The idea is to bolt it on the bed from the chassis only during events and remove it for daily use. Will all the current delays I doubt it will be ready for the Bangalore event.

Interiors: Thanks to my friend fellow Salem Jeeper Aravind for letting me rip open his Thar so that the tinker can get a proper idea of the mounting points of the dashboard. Since I was keen on only the beige version of the bolero dashboard, it had to trimmed down (about 2 inches near windscreen part and hence ripping the Thar). Does look better than the dull grey and black dashboards. Unfortunately I do not have any pics of the front view and will update in a bit. Reworked on the channel support frame for the dash board to a full single piece as in the Thar. Retained the old pair of seats and also carrying over the same instrument panel from the old times AC will be installed at a later stage.


My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-20140107_110737.jpg

My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-20140107_110923.jpg

My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-20140107_110717.jpg

My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-20140107_161059.jpg

Retained DI turbo. Changing crown pinion to 4.27 from 4.88 after driving it for a couple of kms. With 4.88 i found the KMT gearbox to be very noisy and will drive it again on Monday after changing it to 4.27.

Regards
Barani
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Old 15th January 2014, 15:59   #149
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Default Re: My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..

Quote:
Originally Posted by commander View Post
Retained the old pair of seats and also carrying over the same instrument panel from the old times AC will be installed at a later stage.
Cool, Barani, when its a passion for us its just a day's work for the Mechanics. They will just toil around till they get the moolah

Liked your Dash setup, you picked up a used piece or bought a new one? One more thing I observed in the dash setup is that they are various flex points, hope you have taken care of them, else they will rattle, squeak and do whatever necessary to bother you.

Should have added air bags

Edit:

Retained DI turbo: Please do whatever it takes to retain, else I can help you swap my Peugeot with your DI Turbo

Last edited by Twinn : 15th January 2014 at 16:03.
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Old 18th January 2014, 17:35   #150
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Originally Posted by Twinn View Post

Liked your Dash setup, you picked up a used piece or bought a new one? One more thing I observed in the dash setup is that they are various flex points, hope you have taken care of them, else they will rattle, squeak and do whatever necessary to bother you.

Retained DI turbo: Please do whatever it takes to retain, else I can help you swap my Peugeot with your DI Turbo
Thanks Twinn. The dash was a new piece and since they all cost the same opted for the beige as it looked well. Thats why we had to rip the Thar because the tinker was hesitant of cutting it but I left him little choice. Moreover it helped in better understanding of the mounting points and so far no rattles.

Well end of the day, found sense that DI turbo is where Im looking to proceed with but thanks for your offer.

Since Boda is coming up shortly decided to get a couple of runs with the Jeep. One major concern is the radiator fan which is now just one inch from the radiator which brings me memories of Boda 13. Here are a couple of pics at its current stage.

My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-20140117_193114.jpg

My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-20140117_193058.jpg

My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-20140117_193828.jpg

My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-20140118_131804.jpg

My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-20140118_131838.jpg

My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-20140118_161807.jpg

Somewhere during the middle of my project I recollected something from my scrapbook. I seriously did not know why at that point of time I had mentioned all the details like engine and stuff (what i could gather from auto india then) for this picture and neglected for the other few that I had drawn. Nor did I think about this when I started rebuilding this Jeep. All that i had ever planned for was to give it a neat body and paint job but you guys all know how that ended.

My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-20131105_1917321.jpg

Growing up I would dread to be seen in a Jeep(line of business meant mostly jeeps) but didnt have much of a choice either. I still remember how all of us (cousins as well) would be packed off to school in the Commander. For all I can remember even my amby used to be a better deal than the Jeeps to go to school. Not any more.

By now, I realise that Jeeps are almost a necessity that I have to use regularly. Economically I would have made it look good if i had purchased a Thar Di, with my project already there(curse my wrong moves) but stuff happens but more importantly we learn. On the other hand new jeep or old jeep - same story (you are either at the mechanics/etc/etc to repair or modify). One other thing that a Jeep does - its a perfect stress reliever mentally when you are drained.


Regards,
Barani.
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