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Old 23rd October 2012, 16:06   #16
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Default Re: My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..

There is one photo of that Coorg Jeep I don't know which tread but Its there in one of the 4x4 Excursions treads of Kakkabe or Somvarpet.

Now I got only this action pic.

My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..-574472_349002691822644_187113514_n.jpg
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Old 23rd October 2012, 19:36   #17
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Default Re: My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..

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Originally Posted by commander View Post

I got the bumper sourced from Jeep clinic coimbatore which quoted 16G and finally got it done for 13G after an hour. Although the owner told me it was fabricated at his place I highly doubt that as it had a parcel booking number on. I did try searching online but could not find the right maker for it.. {HELP ANYONE}.
Regards,
Barani
Hi Barani,

Bumper looks like made of Swasthifab at B'lore. Please see the facebook link below for more details and pics.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php...type=1&theater
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Old 23rd October 2012, 20:00   #18
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Hi Barani,

Bumper looks like made of Swasthifab at B'lore. Please see the facebook link below for more details and pics.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php...type=1&theater
Hi Salikt,
They are the exact ones that I have purchased. Thanks to you and team-bhp for that info. Looks like they have a lot of proper 4x4 equipment. Great!!
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Old 6th November 2012, 15:17   #19
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Hello,
Commander, first of all i would like to congratulate you on this project you have taken up. I am really glad you have chosen the commander, as i have a similar project in mind. Although, i am cash strapped and not too mention i dont have a vehicle as yet. Just dreams as of now. Although, i hope i do not intrude with your project and have some suggestions as i still have not started work on mine. Currently, my family has a MM THAR CRDE, Had a Maruti Gypsy King (Carb), Ex-Military 550 XDB, MM540. So the history of jeeps is in my blood. Except for the THAR all others have been sold now. MM550 XDB was worked upon my bro, but i really followed up with all the developments and i do know the pain of these mechanics who are all so nice at the beginning but once the initial money is down and some minor work in progress, the jeep never sees the light of day till you throw some weight around.
The Commander i wanted to do up is similar to yours. You have done up the roll cage as i had in mind. I am not sure what is the bars in the front of the windshield for, but i think they are more for structural requirements?
The Mods i had in Mind:
1. Use the Bolero Dash and Steering Setup. (Not sure where to source, could try from Junked Bolero's in a nearby Mahindra dealership).
2. Roll-Cage, without the one on the Windshield, although the piping on the roof section would be thicker to keep the look uniform.
3. Sand-Grip tires with Army rims, Matt Black finished.
4. For the seats my bro had sourced 2 tata Indigo(Used) seats, i think they cost him Rs.2500 need to confirm. I would use the same as they were Very Comfortable and give good Back support also the gave good view for driving comfort.
5. I would want to source 4 of those seats and have them placed instead of the rear bench. Making it like the Innova 7 seater configuration, with storage in the middle sections. So really in my mind i would like it to be a 4 seater and the rear section to be a cargo/storage.
6. My bro had got the 4x4 done up in 20K in the 540 so will ask him on the same.
7. Wheel arches from THAR or any other similar Mahindra Vehicle. For Now this is what i have in my mind for my project. Hope you get a image of what i have in mind. Also a mettallic Silver which is same on the THAR.


P.S - Sorry for the Long write up, i am just as excited with doing a similar project.

If you want to see my bro's vehicle search for the handle nofear9009.

Regards,
Indra
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Old 6th November 2012, 23:37   #20
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Hello Indra,
I didnt really mind your long post. It makes me more involved in this project actually. The roll cage on the windshield frame is for the Hella lights and is a more towards the getting a different look to the commander. As for the others:

1. I am using the OE dashboard look for the commander while the steering box has been altered to the one available on the Maxi pick up cab from Rane. The chassis had to be cut and altered to fit it. Also its is quite hard to source used Bolero spares as they are quite hard to come by.

2. The rollcage on the top is being covered by a soft top. The smaller pipes are just used to create a structure for the softtop.

3. The rims are already delivered from Swastic viji matching the current 139.7 pcd in 16" in Matt black finish. Since I use it for a regular basis my preference lies in AT tyres for the commander. Not sure if i'll be upgrading the tyres as of now as i have four Nankang AT tyres done about 5000 kms only. The spare tyre will be the MRF wanderer RV tyres.

4. As you can see the platform has been redone from the OE spec which has a raised center platform. Sourced used leather tavera bucket seats, handrest with hip adjustment as well costing 10 grand (Was just a little carried away because they were really comfortable.) Will have to put on a seat cover though. As for the rear seats I will have to take it only after setting the front seats.

5. Similar to your set up am going to make the front and middle as a proper five seater and make the rear as cargo space.

6. Yes you can swap the front and rear axle from the 4x4 mm540 to the commander. The rear housing will have to altered a little as the commander has a center housing whereas the mm540 is slightly offset. Also the joint has to be altered a little to be set for the mm540 rear housing. Luckily i had a 4 wheel mm540 which has saved me the cost of the axles and gearbox.

7. Wheel arches from the Thar have been sourced. I have a metallic grey and matt black theme for the commander. The body alone is grey while the bullbars, bumpers, windshield will all be in matt black.

This project has given me many sleepless nights actually and I can really understand your excitement too. Hoping to take delivery by Diwali and my mind is always thinking how its going to be when its finished. Since my workshop is like 200 km from where I live its hard to get an everyday look of it. I have to go down for a day every week to get it to my specifications. Its making me really that crazy Will definitely have a look at your brothers vehicle.

As I am out of town now will update more pics when I get back next week. Choose your mechanic wisely when your start your project and good luck to it.

Regards,
Barani.
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Old 9th November 2012, 10:47   #21
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Default Re: My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..

Dear Commander - what else did you expect? You have learnt the hard way. I hope this nonsense never happens to anybody else, ever!

Dear Rajith and all - on tuesday evening, I was sedately driving home (I drive through the heart of Pune city everyday, 30 kms each way) and took a small detour due to a massive traffic jam. Suddenly I saw an "Old Jeep Market". So, I just had to stop, there was no way I was going to miss this one, all of you will totally agree! .

I parked my car safely some distance away and casually walked in, pretending to know nothing, just wanting something called "Jeep". There were two guys who promised me the moon + all planets in 15 days flat for something above 3 lacs only. The exact words were - "Injun pejot / di / gaar / diphrental / axle-bixal / body-bidi / top-bip / paper-biper, all takatak". They tried to sell me a completely dilapidated Commander 750 DP Soft Top, calling it an "MM" (at least they knew that something like MM exists). Conversion from 2WD to 4WD was very easy as per them, only one "danda" to be fitted! I had a "cutting chai" at their expense (why not!) and thoroughly enjoyed myself. Now they will wait forever for the "bakra" to come to them, HaHaHa! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 9th November 2012, 11:11   #22
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Default Re: My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Commander - what else did you expect? You have learnt the hard way. I hope this nonsense never happens to anybody else, ever!

Dear Rajith and all - on tuesday evening, I was sedately driving home (I drive through the heart of Pune city everyday, 30 kms each way) and took a small detour due to a massive traffic jam. Suddenly I saw an "Old Jeep Market". So, I just had to stop, there was no way I was going to miss this one, all of you will totally agree! .

I parked my car safely some distance away and casually walked in, pretending to know nothing, just wanting something called "Jeep". There were two guys who promised me the moon + all planets in 15 days flat for something above 3 lacs only. The exact words were - "Injun pejot / di / gaar / diphrental / axle-bixal / body-bidi / top-bip / paper-biper, all takatak". They tried to sell me a completely dilapidated Commander 750 DP Soft Top, calling it an "MM" (at least they knew that something like MM exists). Conversion from 2WD to 4WD was very easy as per them, only one "danda" to be fitted! I had a "cutting chai" at their expense (why not!) and thoroughly enjoyed myself. Now they will wait forever for the "bakra" to come to them, HaHaHa! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sir,

Welcome to this thread.Your thoughts/guidance are required to Mr Dharani.

Unfortunately its quiet difficult to find a reliable source to buy or repair old jeeps here.

Either garages are too costly or they are rogues like Mr Dharani mentioned.Even if with great difficulty / hi references we find a reliable guy, he will be working with out any delivery commitment which ranges from 0 to infinity calender dates.

Some big ASC are also like this .

Quietly 4WD jeeps are becoming a life style machine , more & more novice are being attracted and wanted to be a head turner.

Knowingly or unknowingly they are becoming bakras .

Last edited by Rajith : 9th November 2012 at 11:14.
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Old 9th November 2012, 12:38   #23
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[quote=Rajith;2957800]Sir, Welcome to this thread.Your thoughts/guidance are required to Mr Dharani. Unfortunately its quite difficult to find a reliable source to buy or repair old jeeps here. Either garages are too costly or they are rogues like Mr Dharani mentioned. Even if with great difficulty / hi references we find a reliable guy, he will be working with out any delivery commitment which ranges from 0 to infinity calender dates. Some big ASC are also like this. Quietly 4WD jeeps are becoming a life style machine, more & more novice are being attracted and wanted to be a head turner. Knowingly or unknowingly they are becoming bakras. [quote]

Dear Rajith - I agree with your comments, it is indeed very sad and also scary to realize this but it is reality. I do not expect all the guys to be analytical like some of us are on the forum, it is just not possible.

For the guys who have the money, I made the Thar but see what is happening there also. Almost every guy is spending good money to bugger it up. The first attack is on seats, why is something I fail to understand. Arre baba, Thar has Bolero seats, fitted in exactly the same position as Bolero, only with black upholstery, even the damn steering column and steering wheel are of Bolero fitted in the same location as Bolero, that's all, how many times to tell, if it can work in Bolero, why can't it work in Thar? No answer! I can only read, feel sad and keep quiet. Even after I mentioned everything which can make the Thar CRDe really stand out (refer DKG's thread), nobody has done the value addition exercise to the vehicle. Well, to each his own!

Now, what about people like Mr.Dharani? I know that here, there is a huge population of people who will just not realize value for their money, no matter what they do. If I may so ask Mr.Dharani, what was the great need to change the front floor configuration, my dear Sir? Please realize that each part has a purpose, the floor panel is an engineered component, a garage just cannot replicate what a body shop can do. Do you realize that there are channel shaped cross members below the floor which provide strength to the body by something called "section modulus"? Take a 12 inch long steel ruler. Hold it with the centimeter scale facing upwards in your hands, now bend it, it will bend. Now hold it with the centimeter scale facing sidewards, now bend it in the same direction that you bent it the first time, it will not bend. This is the easiest way to explain what is section modulus. When will people understand this? It is common sense. Sorry for cut and dry comment but it is time people realized not to waste their hard earned money to spoil their cars! Well, here also, to each his own!

I suggest you start a thread on "What not to do to Jeeps" or "How not to become a Jeep Bakra". I will contribute. It will go a long way in helping people.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 9th November 2012, 16:05   #24
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Respected Behram sir,
Having read your threads and the respect you have from our fellow bhpians I will take your feedback in a positive way. Unfortunately the used Jeep market and the workshops in most places do find a lot of Bakras. It is not something that I enjoyed sharing my story over here and not to mention that there are about a hundred jeeps in the places I have mentioned that are yet to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Well it is very sad and maybe if being made a bakra helps a couple of newbies that would be alright.
The floor alteration topic gives a lot of insight into what you have mentioned Sir. No doubt there is no comparison between the OE spec cross channel to a fabricated one.

As Rajith sir put it I do accept that it is a matter of lifestyle for people like me who want a second vehicle. Whether to go in for the Thar or not is a different issue. After market tyres, bumpers and alloys/steel rims, skid plates, bull bars etc etc is still an add on expense to do it for each individual taste. Estimate the cost of all the above components whether in a new Jeep or a used one is the same.

That does not mean that people who do things to their taste have no respect for money. It makes more sense to go for the DI Thar rather than buy the so called modified "Jeep" from a dealer. But my reasons for taking the commander have been mentioned at the start of the thread and it had been a long time restoration coming because of a factor called "money". So to blatantly put is a throwing money is synonymous as judging a book by its cover. But all that apart, being a newbie I sincerely thank team bhp and its members into increasing my learning cycle. To Rajith sir for his constant feedback at finding the best components to go with the commander.

Regards,
Barani.
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Old 9th November 2012, 17:46   #25
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So to blatantly put it as throwing money is synonymous as judging a book by its cover. Regards, Barani.
Dear Barani - I understand and empathise with your reply completely but I will once more state that if you did something that will never give value to you but you did it out of your passion, also because you are not expected to know Jeeps like the back of your hand, therefore you will not succeed in realizing your dream, it is my job to tell you, so I will tell you again and again. If you spend your money incorrectly, I feel the loss. I trust you will understand that I had no other intention. Finally, after all, to each his own!

Secret shared now - Sirji, I was like you only, I wanted my Jeep to be the best in the country, that's why I did Thar CRDe (at somebody else's expense, without taking casual leave)! It is the best Jeep in the country, so as of now, I have partially realized my dream! Those guys are selling them all over the place for me. One day I will pick up a secondhand one, making someone else pay 8 odd lakhs of rupees to buy it new for me and then sell it to me after 3 years and 25000 odd kilometers at slightly less than half the cost. I will only change all oils, oil filter, get it thoroughly washed and use it! I am patiently waiting, Sirji. That's how I will realize the value for my money! Business is always done by using somebody else's money! Don't make your mechanic use your money to do his business!

For the 100 odd Jeep skeletons still waiting to see light of day, I can only hope that amongst all the nonsense, some good sense prevails!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 9th November 2012, 18:53   #26
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Respected Sir,
With your experience and knowledge on the topic, I take your suggestions to heart. Your explanation on the value for money is most realistic and is the logical option while departing your money. Regardless of who is selling it, achieving your dream of making the best Jeep with undying dedication deserves special credit. Hats off to you Sir. You have very well succeeded in bringing out not only a product but a large scale improvement to the Jeep community as well.

To be frank here, I started the project without knowing the in depth mechanicals of Jeeps completely trusting the workshop to get it done. Unfortunately the tinker workshop was happy to let me know of their real intentions. For my benefit or not I could not turn a blind eye to this which has led me to this forum and thread. As mentioned, my experience of the rebuilding a Jeep thread may save a couple of Jeeps going to the wrong hands or atleast the ones still in previous workshop at the very least.

Regards,
Barani.
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Old 10th November 2012, 09:33   #27
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To be frank here, I started the project without knowing the in depth mechanicals of Jeeps completely trusting the workshop to get it done. Unfortunately the tinker workshop was happy to let me know of their real intentions. For my benefit or not I could not turn a blind eye to this which has led me to this forum and thread. As mentioned, my experience of the rebuilding a Jeep thread may save a couple of Jeeps going to the wrong hands or at least the ones still in previous workshop at the very least. Regards, Barani.
Dear Barani - well said. At least you have learnt, but at a price, not only money-wise but also disappointment-wise. In my way of working, either I succeed or I learn, so it is good. Now move on.

Dear all - I will like to give a parallel example. The organization that I work for lays down a very strict guideline on safety. Some people tend to disregard it as somebody's wish list. But, just imagine, even if one life gets saved without anybody even knowing it, I think the initiative is worth the effort to implement. Similarly, I feel, that even if one other person whom you and I do not know reads these posts and gets saved from becoming a "Jeep Bakra", I think that this communication is more than worth it. I am not stopping here. Request you all to please send in ideas on how we can help a lot of Jeepers out there!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 10th November 2012, 11:37   #28
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Behram, I hope you are not saying nobody should buy old Jeeps.

There are people who want a SWB Jeep like the CJ/CL340 or Willys. For them there is no choice but buy an old Jeep and work on it. It can be a rewarding experience too in its own way. I learned so much about automobiles thanks to frequent problems in my Jeep. It is like owning an university where you are the only student.

In modern vehicles, we can't change a thing without affecting warranty or reliability. Besides, they are so complex for a non-professional to understand or modify. But old Jeeps are like a canvas, we can add and remove stuff as we please, of course within limits.

Buying an old Jeep and living with it is an adventure. If you go at it without any experience or support system, the chances of failure are high. That is where Jeep communities of Team-BHP and Jeep Thrills come to help.

When I rebuilt my Jeep, I got it done in a workshop 250kms away from my home. At the end of it, I don't have a single complaint. I am yet to meet a single Jeeper who didn't appreciate the build quality after that. The trick was to pick the right garage, and the right local friends to oversee the build. That is where the Jeep community comes in with the right input and feedback. If Barani had taken few firsthand feedback about the garage from other Jeepers, he would not have engaged that garage. He was like a Skoda car buyer who never suspected the quality of Skoda service. Now he has learned that lesson.

We can't ask every potential Jeep buyer to buy a new Thar. It is ridiculously expensive compared to an old Jeep. Therefore, people will continue to buy old Jeeps and restore at 1/3rd the price of new Thar CRDe. Some of them who go at it blindly without using the support system will become Jeep Bakras. But the rest will be spared thanks to the feedback and support of our jeep community.
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Old 10th November 2012, 14:13   #29
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Behram, I hope you are not saying nobody should buy old Jeeps. There are people who want a SWB Jeep like the CJ/CL340 or Willys. For them there is no choice but buy an old Jeep and work on it. It can be a rewarding experience too in its own way. I learned so much about automobiles thanks to frequent problems in my Jeep. It is like owning an university where you are the only student.

Old Jeeps are like a canvas, we can add and remove stuff as we please, of course within limits. Buying an old Jeep and living with it is an adventure. If you go at it without any experience or support system, the chances of failure are high. That is where Jeep communities of Team-BHP and Jeep Thrills come to help.

When I rebuilt my Jeep, I got it done in a workshop 250kms away from my home. At the end of it, I don't have a single complaint. I am yet to meet a single Jeeper who didn't appreciate the build quality after that. The trick was to pick the right garage, and the right local friends to oversee the build. That is where the Jeep community comes in with the right input and feedback. If Barani had taken few firsthand feedback about the garage from other Jeepers, he would not have engaged that garage. Now he has learned that lesson.

We can't ask every potential Jeep buyer to buy a new Thar. It is ridiculously expensive compared to an old Jeep. Therefore, people will continue to buy old Jeeps and restore at 1/3rd the price of new Thar CRDe. Some of them who go at it blindly without using the support system will become Jeep Bakras. But the rest will be spared thanks to the feedback and support of our jeep community.
Dear Sharath - I never said that people should not buy old Jeeps. Why take anybody else's case, even I am still waiting to buy and completely restore a CJ3BLHD. But there are things to remember (everybody, please read these lines), as follows:

"Analytically look at the vehicle and comprehensively drive it before you buy it. It will talk to you".

If you are not technically inclined, go with your common sense. Go one aggregate at a time. When you are analysing clutch, don't think of engine. If the seller wants to talk to you at the same time, tell him to shut up and leave you alone!

For your ready reference, I am taking clutch. All this is only common sense:
What does clutch do? It is a fuse between the engine and the transmission.
What all it does? It connects or disconnects the drive.
How should it connect or disconnect the drive? Smoothly.
When should it connect or disconnect the drive? When you release or depress the clutch pedal. Also, not too quickly and not after a very long pedal release position.

Now tell me, is this rocket science? A lay person can check at least this much. If he can't, then at least he should not buy an old Jeep. I have underlined the critical words. That word "smoothly" can teach you exactly what you expect out of a clutch, isn't it?

Once this is done, go to the next level and then higher and higher and higher. I am still learning. In the end, there is no end. This is only correct way to realize your dream!

Comments welcome.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

PS - yes, the Thar is expensive. That's why I am waiting, waiting, waiting. One day, somebody will sell a "used" Thar which to me will be "analytically new as discussed between me and Thar" but the seller will not know it. He would have paid all EMIs for me till then, using his money. .

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 10th November 2012 at 14:18. Reason: add info
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Old 11th November 2012, 10:05   #30
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Default Re: My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..

Are there any shops anywhere that can be TRUSTED to recondition a civilian or Army jeep from rust-bucket status to pristine condition? To deliver it in such good shape that you would have no second thoughts about taking it into the deep Himalayas? And with minimal supervision during the restore?

No, I am not joking. This kind of thing actually happens in other countries and its called "good business".
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