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Old 6th March 2013, 10:46   #106
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Originally Posted by Geje View Post

Sir, Your jeep looks Macho with the new set of axles. Please do share the costs if you can. Please also share some pictures on the forum.
Thanks
Geje
Hi Geje ,
I haven't got to see the Jeep yet and will be another two weeks before I can come and pick it up from Coimbatore. From what I can see you are getting totally confused by what you want. As Sreejesh mentioned please consider getting a NGCS because the mods you intend to do will be will surpass the cost of acquiring a NGCS finally. You would need a brake booster for the disc brakes and that would cost around 10 grand, plus axles , gearbox, engine swap/engine rebuild (at a later stage) and all. Trust me on this as it will become a never ending process unless if your really willing to experiment. Even better, THAR DI complete peace of mind and you can just enjoy the vehicle.

Regards
Barani
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Old 6th March 2013, 10:51   #107
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Originally Posted by Jerrycan View Post
The steering boxes are different.
The steering box on the 540s are worm and worm wheel type. On a non NGCS 550s it's recirculating ball type. Ngcs have bigger steering boxes also recirculating ball type.
Regards
Jerrycan
Do you think. The Steering box of a non NGCS will suit the MM 540 with out any Alterations.
BTW thank you very much for the Contact details of the scrap Dealer. He has quoted 25000 for the Axles with Disc Brakes. Packing and Forwarding is extra and the freight is to be paid by me tentatively around Rs.3000.00. I'll have 51" axles with Disc Brakes,and 51" SFRA with LSD for Less than 30.000.00
Thank you Sir
Best Regards
Geje
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Old 26th March 2013, 11:22   #108
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Have been using the Jeep after the 57" OKBJ and 53" FFRA conversion. It did take a while to get used to the jeep because it wasnt as fickle as before. Now that I have done past the 1000 odd kms got used to the way it handles. One thing that has been greatly improved is the turning radius. The steering is harder initially but becomes free like after half a turn of the wheel. So it takes more effort than my previous axles initially. Gurus please help on that. Also had problems with the brake pedal having mild vibrations under braking but much better after having it trued. Still minor vibrations to the pedal which the mechanic blames the caliper not seating properly on one side. Thanks jyobeb sir. Finally got new shoes for the Commander (bighorns) and is really great off road.
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Old 26th March 2013, 11:37   #109
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Dhanush sir posting some pics of the engine bed after the DI conversion. Been using it for the past five years without any hassles as a two wheel drive. Time will tell after making it an offroader but so far all good. More pictures from our off roading trip last weekend in Chikola dam, near Hasanur. One suspect during all OTRS due to the long chassis is the gear box crossbar taking a hit on the rock stages. Any suggestions on that?

The last pic is the Thar clutch cable taking a hit and it started leaking during the OTR. Luckily it happened near the nipple itself and we were able to cut the tip and reheat and plug it back. But the clutch did not engage after that too for a while and then we did push the jeep to get momentum, slot to second and crank the ignition. The jeep rolled into gear and after a couple of rounds the clutch pedal came back to life.
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Old 26th March 2013, 13:03   #110
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Default Re: My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..

so thats how the CJ's rear bumper got bent!! :(

No ways the custom-welded hook on right long-member could take that snatch/jerk pull!! Watch out for perm chassis damage, I will talk to shiva.
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Old 9th April 2013, 22:51   #111
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Done 5000 kms on the Commander to date. Never been used as a primary vehicle and mostly used as a weekend vehicle and OTRS. Sometimes it amuses me as to what a Jeep does and goes about after all the abuse. Requires a visit to the mechanic after every OTR but none that would blame on the vehicle. My overall report so far:

DI Engine: Great torquey engine which can be driven using mostly third and fourth gears for the most part. Cruises around 80 to 90 easily on highways and no heating problems comparatively. Initial torque is good but runs out of steam when revved. So ideal to shift in long slush stages from second to third to keep up momentum. As mentioned, a good workhorse but loads of noise. Changed to air type filter.

57" OKBJ: Solved my turning radius problem and makes the commander a gr8 looker too. Requires proper setting up as the steering was real hard and drivability was affected initially. But luckily my mechanic had sorted that out and now as fickle as before. Requires more judgement on rock stages but thats my opinion. Disc brakes are a plus.

MRCBT: Does what is needed with a little effort. A good alternative for those considering power steering but not for every day city use with broad tyres.

Dog-bone Shackles: I had it lying idle for about three months after buying it. Most mechanics and leaf spring guys had advised that it would make the vehicle unstable or would be real jumpy. Finally after another hit on the gear box cross bar went ahead with the installation. Nothing at all except that the Commander is around a couple of inches taller. Great mod IMO.

Hella lights: Well this hasnt served any purpose and drains the battery if at all used. Just a tick in the looks department.

Good seats: If there is one thing that I love most about the commander are the seats. Extremely comfortable and a pleasure traveling on the long OTRS. Since most OTRs are atleast 200 km+ journeys this has made the Commander a favorite for passengers. Would strong suggest a good seat for the Jeep and will definately be worth the investment. Mine are middle row Tavera captain seats for front and Fortuner jump seats for the rear.

Bighorns: This upgrade had me thinking for over three months as it was a bit of an investment. Most Maxxis guys will agree that the first look of a stranger noticing the Jeep are those tires. Looks great and does a great job.

Offset steel rims: Gives a good look to the vehicle and never messes with the body of the Jeep. Great with Bighorns.

A few pics of the recce to Yercaud. Planning a few minor mods which I will update soon.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater
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Old 2nd October 2013, 10:46   #112
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Hi all. Just a few updates that have taken place over the last couple of months.

Palar 2013: Had attended the Palar challenge this year and was delighted to meet a lot of well known Tbhpians and jeepers alike. This is my first experience of the Palar challenge which is a completely different type of event. Having done the Bangalore OTR and a few sunday outings only so far, the Palar challenge requires a more professional approach. Gone is the easy going nature of off roading with a sense of urgency and and in some way a desire to score the best possible in each stage. Time management, team work, technical know how and a thoroughly prepared vehicle is needed to complete this event.
Well me, the same casual approach with quarter of tank of gas on the first day and managed to survive it till the end of day 1. Thanked my stars for just getting through with running dry and filled up on the way back to camp. Now for the second day is where I was in for a surprise. Having run dry the previous day, had my diesel line completely choked and just after completing the stage the Jeep gave up. So spent the afternoon cleaning the diesel line and then the Jeep did fire up again, only to go dead after another stage. That meant the end of day 2 and was towed back to camp by my team mates. On day 3, got to Madhurangam and bought a new diesel line got back fitted it up and it was 3 pm already when i reached the stages. Did a couple of stages, and then got back to camp. Overall being a LWB, the extreme rock stages were the tougher obstacles for the Jeep and it was a challenging experience overall. So next time more than anything I'll be more mentally prepared to have a go at it.

After the Palar challenge, I finally went ahead to do something that was long running on my mind -SPOA after seeing a couple of jeeps (coorg and pune pathfinders).

* Welded new perches on top the housing.
* Increased the length of the rear brake hose.
* Increase the length of the front propeller shaft.
* Reverted back to company shackles as the dog bones shackles were giving negative camber.
* Steering link road had to be adjusted.

Just completed a couple of runs and it was great except that the rear would feel a bit light on the corners( especially banked ones on flyovers) at speeds around 50. Fitted a sway bar for the rear and considerably more stable but with a bit more of a bounce on the broken surfaces.

Did drive it through a ramp, which is where the project took a complete diversion. The oil from the rear housing began to leak on the inner tire wall. So planned to replace the oil seals and proceed ahead. This got tricky when the mechs told me that it is impossible to find a oil seal for it as the grooves were different on either side of the crown and it left everyone confused for a while. Unfortunately the rear housing was not a FFRA but a SFRA with axles at the flange. Until now the only way I knew to differentiate it was by looking at the sides. After much discussion, the best thing was to replace this to a FFRA keeping in mind the long term needs of doing a traction bar. As my replacement for the housing was taking time, i decided to go down to Mettupalayam and procure it.

This sudden change in plans, made me do a complete rework on the long term basis. Removed my gear box and made my other DI(CL 500) jeep a 4wd as i had the extra set of axles with me.

So current updates :

Di turbo: Refinement is on a another level compared to the Di. It is minimal even on a open jeep and also the extra surge can be noticed when pulled in third gear.

Clutch: Changed to the hydraulic type clutch and much smoother to operate.

Gearbox- Single lever KMT 4 wd gearbox overhauled. I was using a friends XD3P for a while and noticed that the gearbox is much quieter. Any particular part thing i need to address.

53 FFRA: The commander has become much more planted and removed both front and rear sway bars for now. Replaced all four shocks to bolero rear. Yet to do any testing as I'll be out of town for the next couple of weeks. Yet to test 4wd. Need to change to 47/11 as 44/9 seems a bit stressed out with Di turbo.

Torsion bar: Unfortunately did not get the time to complete this and will resume in November when i get back. Any help on this would be much appreciated.

And finally to SV Santhosh sir, for taking his time and guidance in helping me during every step of the SPOA.

The duplicate axles come with out a step for oil seal (the gold part).

After SPOA - due to the LWB the vehicle is well planted on the roads.

During the SPOA - found this in Salem!!!

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Old 3rd October 2013, 23:21   #113
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Default Re: My experience of rebuilding a Jeep..

Quote:
Originally Posted by commander View Post
After the Palar challenge, I finally went ahead to do something that was long running on my mind -SPOA after seeing a couple of jeeps (coorg and pune pathfinders).
Please be very careful in articulation after SPOA, we ended up toppling 540 with SPOA (pune pathfinders jeep which you saw at TPC). Few jeeps without SPOA cleared same obstacle with moderate difficulty and we didnt even realize when this jeep toppled.
All the best with your new experience of first floor (this is what we call for SPOA jeep and Gypsy in west )

Shubhendra
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Old 3rd October 2013, 23:42   #114
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Very nice pictures
Thanks for sharing
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Old 4th October 2013, 11:45   #115
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Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Please be very careful in articulation after SPOA, we ended up toppling 540 with SPOA (pune pathfinders jeep which you saw at TPC). Few jeeps without SPOA cleared same obstacle with moderate difficulty and we didnt even realize when this jeep toppled.
All the best with your new experience of first floor (this is what we call for SPOA jeep and Gypsy in west )

Shubhendra
Thanks for the inputs. Will revert back to the original set up if found unsatisfactory. Primary issue with a LWB in OTR is the break over angle and SPOA is the only way I can achieve that. The introduction of the sway bar in the rear is in some way to limit the excess articulation (again assuming it would still be more than SPUA). Anyways all that is only an experiment and hope I can improve that at the expense of articulation.

How about the use of wider leaf springs in a SPOA set up? Will there be any difference between the older ones and the current ones (assuming they flex lesser)??? Any help on that?

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Barani
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Old 5th October 2013, 17:14   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Please be very careful in articulation after SPOA,


(this is what we call for SPOA jeep and Gypsy in west )

Shubhendra
Shubhendra sir

I noticed few things with the first floor on that OTR.

## the prop angles were quite bad particularly front, hope someone makes a two stage unit for this in the cramped space.

## tires were taking the power off, so the driver needed a momentum before he did anything

## that momentum becomes speed & is dangerous at some places

## over all body roll was a dance to see even on village tar road & turns, quite a tango (it looked like a tanga/tonga)

##what exactly happened when the first floor went to the undergrounds.

# the long shackles , (so bumpy leaf action)

# b i g tyres

# s p o a

ALL gave a one & half feet higher than normal G C .

& Sandip was twice faster on that 4 feet high step, than you guys . Where most of the Jeeps clung to the surface like a lizard with nails, Sandeep seemed like a bird flying low.

My sixth sense only made me back off two feet, before the " destroyed in seconds ".

But god bless Sandip, he is a nice & serious chap, tell him sorry for this wright-up.

BTW . the subject of the thread is a LWB, will be nice to observe it, as I expect some counter imbalance properties due to the LWB

This is actually a preferable combination of wheel base & spoa .


Sudarshan

Last edited by Sudarshan : 5th October 2013 at 17:16.
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Old 25th October 2013, 13:25   #117
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Hi all,
Have been driving the commander for last couple of days and have been getting positive feedback in the handling department. Infact am running them with the front sway bars disconnected as well and everything feels good. Offroad trials are still pending.
A few pics of the prop shaft angles and longer shackles causing negative camber.

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So finally traction bar and pickup double cab now in place.

Traction bar:
Axlewrap Solutions

Leaf-spring suspensions are great. The springs package easily, there's not a lot of complicated geometry involved, and best of all they're cheap and easy to come by. So what's the downside to these long metal suspension members?

Well, unless you're running the springs under the axle, then your rig is susceptible to the rear axle rotational havoc known as axlewrap. It's not to say that running the springs under the axle will completely free you from the wrap, but the negative effects are definitely more dramatic with the springs atop the axle.

For most 4x applications the effects of axlewrap are most noticeable in the rear of the vehicle. Since the leaf springs are responsible for supporting the weight of the rig and locating and keeping the axle in place, more often than not an instant burst of power and traction will overwhelm the leaves. When the springs reach their giving or tolerance point, the leaf pack will curve into an S-shape and the rear pinion will rotate skyward. This wrapping motion can induce violent wheelhop and easily annihilate U-joints, driveshafts, and in some cases transfer cases. High horsepower, big tires, long and soft leaf packs, rounded and worn spring perches, and lift blocks only amplify axlewrap.

An easy way to combat these rotating forces is to incorporate an antiwrap or traction bar. An antiwrap bar is a devise used to prevent the axlehousing from rotating under load.

The most common type of antiwrap bar is a single bar comprised of reinforced tubing shaped in the form of the letter A. This style bar works like a radius control arm to keep the axlehousing from rotating, while a series of bushings and a forward mounted shackle allow the suspension to still articulate and travel freely.

A properly installed traction bar will prolong the life of your drivetrain and suspension components in addition to increasing traction both on and off road. To find out more about traction bars we headed to Low Range 4x4 in Wilmington, North Carolina. While there, we took a detailed look into a Skyjacker antiwrap kit installed on a '92 Jeep Wrangler YJ that was equipped with a spring-over conversion. For more on traction aids and axlewrap solutions visit our website, www.4wheeloffroad.com.

Length & Strength
The length of the traction bar will differ by application, but it's important that the bar be long enough to cycle with the suspension. If the bar is too short it may bind the suspension or rear driveline. Generally, the longer you can make the bar the better. Antiwrap bars such as this Offroad Design one not only control the axle, but also act as a skid and driveline protector. The use of thick-wall DOM tubing is highly recommended.

Shackles
When your suspension cycles, the axle moves more than just up and down. To compensate for this movement the traction bar will need to attach to a floating shackle. Hard-mounting the bar at both the frame and axle end can cause binding and damage the suspension.

Bushings
To allow the rear suspension and axle to articulate without binding, bushings should be used at the attachment points of the bar. Johnny Joints or high-grade Heims are not a bad investment, but standard urethane bushings usually do the trick.

(source: http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/su...ction-bar-101/)


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Final specs of the rebuild should be done in another 20 days. And as always the eagle eyed Mr. Sv Santhosh sorting out my queries. Thanks.

Regards
Barani
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Old 25th October 2013, 13:38   #118
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Amazing progress and vision of whats wanted!!

AC and a hardtop will be a welcome addition any day! Try for the heater solution also - then truly it can become a cross country tourer (Leh?!).

You are living me dream and only the 36 inches (3 feet) ingress level is making me stay away for time being. If I can afford a small hatch, then I am in for this surely!

Eagerly awaiting next update...
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Old 30th October 2013, 23:43   #119
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Great work man!. Please do post more photographs of the Jeep under construction.
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Old 6th November 2013, 22:26   #120
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Right now in the process of re-fabricating the boot as I had sold the soft top shell. Will bring more pics in a couple of days wen that is done and then will be fabricating the external roll cage and tube bumpers.

Sold my 2008 spec di turbo(within reason of course) too and am on the look out for a new engine. Engines considered-

1. Scorpio sz2600 - i will have to rework engine mounts, change bell housing again and gearbox (???). Bigger Gandhi ji's too!!!

2. Toyota 14b - can be mated to KMT as read from fellow bhpians but long term reliability ??? Definitely going cross country :P

3. Current spec Di turbo(not yet available) - Very happy with Di turbo as i feel its adequate for all my purposes and would make my daily drive very livable.

4. M2di( available) - Help on this one please. Does it come with ECM?

5. M2dicr (available) - whats the difference with the above?

Are 4&5 feasible with the current mounts(di) on the chassis. Will there be any short comings in terms of reliability and mating it to the kmt? Hope you guys can help me figure it out.

Regards,
Barani
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