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Old 20th November 2013, 21:57   #166
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Default Re: 10000kms update - 10 months of ownership

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Hi,
Did you loose braking completely?
Wonder if ARAI check whether dual circuit (failsafe) system work as advertised.

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Sutripta
Right - the brakes stopped working pretty much completely. I'd say there at a 5% feedback at best, but that wasn't even slowing it down from a modest 30kmph I was at - far from stopping it. Had to use engine braking to bring it to a halt. The handbrake anyways is just ornamental.

If there is a failsafe - it definitely didn't kick in. Not sure if its a Thar issue or something in particular with mine. More cause for some worry.
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Old 21st November 2013, 17:58   #167
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Default Re: 10000kms update - 10 months of ownership

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If there is a failsafe - it definitely didn't kick in.
Tandem Master Cylinder/ Dual circuit by its very nature is supposed to give you some (50% on a diagonal split system) braking on a single point failure.

But I've also faced this (not on a Mahindra product!) which I traced back to a brake fluid reservoir designed by lobotomised monkeys.

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 21st November 2013 at 18:01.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 09:43   #168
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Tandem Master Cylinder/ Dual circuit by its very nature is supposed to give you some (50% on a diagonal split system) braking on a single point failure.
I'm guessing this should improve braking now that they are using a new and bigger tandem booster. However my jeep still failed under continuous/frequent braking situations eg. Descending over rocky obstacles while offroading or even while moving through slow traffic. It haven't seen the pedal sinking behavior at higher speeds and I'm not sure if that's coz my wife's got some really good connection with the Almighty and prays for us everyday or if M&M has actually done something about the vehicle safety. Net-net I'm glad that I've never seen the brakes fail temporarily when there would have been no chance of a recovery but I'm still pissed since the ASC is going to basically return my jeep after bleeding the brakes for nth number of time and wanting me to believe that its gonna be perfect.

The jeep is at the ASC since last week because they wanted to get it checked with the M&M technical team who have done nothing different than what has been the standard line of troubleshooting for more than 6 months that this problem has been existing. They wanted me to sign off on the fix and hence they're keeping the jeep at the ASC until I return back to Bangalore from my business trip next week. As usual there are no root cause explanations on why the hell such a thing should be happening in the first place so I'm going to be very skeptical about the fixes they've done.
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Old 23rd November 2013, 22:06   #169
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
I'm guessing this should improve braking now that they are using a new and bigger tandem booster. However my jeep still failed under continuous/frequent braking situations eg.
Hi,
Yours is the general Thar braking complaint. XD2s was about a fractured pipe. Exactly the type of failure a dual circuit system is supposed to tackle.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 26th November 2013, 22:03   #170
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

Today's update:

It had been 10 days or more since the jeep was stationed at the ASC, reason being that they wanted me to sign off on the fix before taking delivery. The complaint was the same old "sinking pedal" phenomenon which was under investigation by the technical team from M&M. Since I was on business travel, I had told them that I will come today to inspect and take delivery of the vehicle.

After a brief conversation with the ASC manager, I was told that the technical team had asked the service center guys to perform pretty much the same things of checking and bleeding the brakes which have been done before on numerous occasions. There was no decisive root cause identified to my problem and the service center guy had failed to recreate the issue in the test drives so far. Now, this wasn't the resolution I was expecting from them since they had the jeep for 10 long days and they were basically telling me that they weren't able to trace the problem or even recreate the issue.

For whatever it was worth, I asked him to send a technical person with me for a road test to see if I could demo the problem myself. I knew it would come up under slow speed conditions but wasn't sure if I was going to be successful in making it happen for them to see. We drove around for about 15 mins and I must admit that it was the first time I must have locked the wheels under hard braking while we were testing in an empty lane. The bigger brake booster does have higher amount of braking than before since this just wasn't possible with the old stock brakes. I was almost done with my test run and was thinking I'd have to return back in vain. Just then as I turned full towards the right in order to go back to the ASC, the pedal just sunk in. The ASC guy was able to confirm that it indeed was an issue and was not normal behavior. After a few moments, it happened yet again, this time also while I was making a sharp turn. I'm not sure if the fact that I was turning when it happened both times has any connection with the issue since I've had the "sinking pedal" experience even while going straight ahead. Anyway, now I had enough evidence to go back and re-initiate the discussion.

A couple of calls made and I am told that this will now be escalated to the engineering team and another round of investigations will be carried out. The good thing is that there is no scope of the ASC or M&M folks to deny that the issue actually exists. For now, I have gotten the jeep back home and its safely parked in the basement until it is called upon again by the grease monkeys for some more R&D.

While I admit that I have been able to get attention of the ASC and M&M whenever required in the past 1 year, the sheer amount of time that the jeep and me have spent doing rounds of the ASC isn't funny anymore. The brake issue is continuing for more than 6 months now and even though the folks are willing to help me, they're not actually helping.
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Old 22nd January 2014, 10:13   #171
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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I do have a question for people who have experience with winches. I'm thinking of getting a Warn 10000lbs winch from the US next month but the weight is around 87lbs ie 40kg. Now even though the allowance is two pieces of baggage of 50lbs each, the max they'll stretch is around 30kgs in a single package.

Will it be easy to split the package in 2 parts and the re-assemble it once I'm back? I'm thinking the drum and motor should be a logical split but not sure how viable it is to do it that way.

Also would there be issues with customs, the price is around 32k and I won't have anything else to declare. Given the 25k limit I'm okay to pay the duty on the rest of the amount.
amol
My bro just carried the warn winch with spydura rope from the US. The trick was to split the 80lbs into two chekin bags. The Winch alone was 65lbs - everything else went into a second bag.

The girl at the airline counter charged about $35 for the excess weight / over limit weight of the bag.
The customs guy at DIAL did not bother at all. Worst case the duty works out to 27% of invoice value i believe.
Best of luck on your mods - just sharing a small piece of advice - it is a never ending task - just budget it out - go slow - and enjoy the process over many years.
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Old 22nd January 2014, 10:55   #172
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Originally Posted by imkalki View Post
amol
My bro just carried the warn winch with spydura rope from the US. The trick was to split the 80lbs into two chekin bags. The Winch alone was 65lbs - everything else went into a second bag.

The girl at the airline counter charged about $35 for the excess weight / over limit weight of the bag.
The customs guy at DIAL did not bother at all. Worst case the duty works out to 27% of invoice value i believe.
Best of luck on your mods - just sharing a small piece of advice - it is a never ending task - just budget it out - go slow - and enjoy the process over many years.
Thanks for sharing your experience. It is exactly what I did about a year ago and brought in the M8000. From a cost standpoint it was just about the customs limit of 35k in my case since I got the steel cable vs the spydura rope which was 10k+ more.
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Old 24th February 2014, 23:23   #173
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

So here's a long pending update on the braking issue which sadly still exists. Actually, as I write this, my jeep is sitting at the ASC since the Mahindra engineer is on leave until Wednesday. Given the amount of troubleshooting that has been done on my jeep for this issue so far, he may even choose to write a thesis on the issue.

After the last update in November where they had the jeep at the ASC for about 3 weeks, it was returned to me with the promise that the issue of the brake pedal losing pressure was isolated and fixed with a genius precision engineered component called the "stopper bolts". Now if you're wondering what these stopper bolts are, they're a just pair of bolts with a plastic coating at the tail end that helps to restrict the turning radius and prevent fouling of the brake lines. When I asked the engineer that if Mahindra knows this is a problem and they have an "engineered" solution for it, why is it not applied on new vehicles, he simply replied that they don't think everyone would need it and that's why it's only available with the ASCs (I'm not sure if this one really has a part # and is available as a spare to purchase).

A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde-stopperbolts.jpg

Apparently the issue had been diagnosed to be caused because of pinching/fouling of the brake lines while doing a full U-turn, hence it only happens after I've performed a turning maneuver and not otherwise. Well, I couldn't be happier since this was the first time they were actually making sense. But not for long, the stopper bolts (however precise they were to be) proved to be insufficient in solving the issue or rather I should say that my notorious jeep has found another way to render them ineffective.

Sadly enough, I was out in the second half of December and didn't get a chance to test it out. January didn't see much action with the jeep either, except for one friendly OTR that I attended. However, one of the days while I was driving to work I noticed the problem come up again, luckily there were no scary instances this time with the brakes. I called up the ASC and the regional office and apprised them of the problem to which they had asked me to bring the jeep back to the ASC for another round of investigation.

So for all that's worth, I'm trying my luck again with the ASC folks but I'm on the verge of exploding if things don't go right this time. The ASC manager told me that the M&M engineer had asked them to check some 3-4 things that have been verified including replication of the issue after a tyre swap to see if it is my non-standard alloys/tyres at fault here, but thankfully they were not to be blamed. Now, the jeep is simply waiting for the engineer to arrive at the workshop on Wednesday and pull out another trick from his hat.
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Old 25th February 2014, 09:18   #174
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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........ Now, the jeep is simply waiting for the engineer to arrive at the workshop on Wednesday and pull out another trick from his hat.
Dear Amolpol, I really empathise with your frustation. Just my two bits. Have the ASC checked the correct operation of the self adjusting mechanism in the rear drum brakes. I used have a sinking pedal experience once in a while cause the rear left side mechanism had slipped. My post page 7 refers. Regards
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Old 26th February 2014, 08:20   #175
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Dear Amolpol, I really empathise with your frustation. Just my two bits. Have the ASC checked the correct operation of the self adjusting mechanism in the rear drum brakes. I used have a sinking pedal experience once in a while cause the rear left side mechanism had slipped. My post page 7 refers. Regards
Thanks samwagon, I've not experienced the issue other than after a full turn but there's no harm in checking the rear brakes too. Hopefully this should be the last time I have to go to fix the issue.
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Old 26th February 2014, 10:02   #176
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
fixed with a genius precision engineered component called the "stopper bolts". Now if you're wondering what these stopper bolts are, they're a just pair of bolts with a plastic coating at the tail end that helps to restrict the turning radius and prevent fouling of the brake lines. When I asked the engineer that if Mahindra knows this is a problem and they have an "engineered" solution for it, why is it not applied on new vehicles, he simply replied that they don't think everyone would need it and that's why it's only available with the ASCs (I'm not sure if this one really has a part # and is available as a spare to purchase).

Attachment 1211682
Hi,

In all Sonakoyo rack&pinion type steering which replaced Ranes worm and roller type for all IFS vehicles of mahindra post 2002/2003 is having a internal stopper inside the set up.

I have fixed the stopper in my Thar by 2011.Not because of any break issue,but i felt it was over turning and to save the set up.

Seems your internal stopper might have broken and M&M has patched up with a stopper for you.

Soons you will hear krrrr noise when the you turn full right or left. Where lower arms stopper latch touches the bolt head.Again you have reduce the height.Keep 22 size ring/spanner ready .

Rajith

Last edited by benbsb29 : 26th February 2014 at 11:22. Reason: Fixed broken quote tag.
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Old 3rd March 2014, 09:47   #177
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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Originally Posted by Rajith View Post
Seems your internal stopper might have broken and M&M has patched up with a stopper for you.

Soons you will hear krrrr noise when the you turn full right or left. Where lower arms stopper latch touches the bolt head.Again you have reduce the height.Keep 22 size ring/spanner ready .

Rajith
Not sure of the internal stopper but the external one was fitted with the assurance that it will solve the issue. Will have to check on the noise you mentioned since I haven't seen anything as yet, but you never know!

The issue was reportedly fixed by lowering the front end of the vehicle by adjusting the torsion bar. HOwever, in the first iteration the jeep was slanting towards the front and the height adjustment was unequal on the left and right side. Not surprising for the workmanship you can expect at Mahindra. So I sent it back for another round of adjustment, clearly stating what needed to be achieved and the jeep came back late Friday evening with the stance being corrected to be at least horizontal and equal height on both sides. The biggest downside of lowering the height was that the clearance between the tyre and the plastic fenders was hardly 2-3 inches and so I had to remove those fenders out rather than breaking them on a trail.

Tested it yesterday and seemed to work fine, except at one point there was some grinding noise from the steering but it didn't happen again so not sure what that was about. More to come on this.

For now, here's a pic of how the jeep looked just after a day of being washed.

A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde-20140302_135216_hdr_2.jpg
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Old 19th March 2014, 01:22   #178
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

The jeep came back from service and went back again for some minor repairs and this cycle happened for about three times now. But finally, I'm glad it's all done and the jeep is in great shape as of now. (touchwood!)

- The brake issues seem to have been resolved, I've not experienced it in a while
- The front suspension height has been adjusted to have a leveled stance at the front and back
- The noise during full left turns has been rectified, seemed like some component was getting stressed, but turned out to be nothing serious
- The much needed underbody wash and general cleaning has been done multiple times since that last OTR, no more muddy interiors
- There was an AC blower problem that happened during the last weekend drive. Seemed like there was some blockage to the air flow since the fan wasn't throwing too much air even though the a/c was cooling. This was fixed in the last visit to the ASC.
- The front and rear fenders have been removed, and though I don't prefer this "naked" look too much, I am okay to put up with it.

Here's how the beast looked today morning after a nice shampoo wash.

A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde-thar.jpg
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Old 2nd April 2014, 18:11   #179
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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The jeep came back from service and went back again for some minor repairs and this cycle happened for about three times now. But finally, I'm glad it's all done and the jeep is in great shape as of now. (touchwood!)

- The brake issues seem to have been resolved, I've not experienced it in a while
- The front suspension height has been adjusted to have a leveled stance at the front and back
- The noise during full left turns has been rectified, seemed like some component was getting stressed, but turned out to be nothing serious
- The much needed underbody wash and general cleaning has been done multiple times since that last OTR, no more muddy interiors
- There was an AC blower problem that happened during the last weekend drive. Seemed like there was some blockage to the air flow since the fan wasn't throwing too much air even though the a/c was cooling. This was fixed in the last visit to the ASC.
- The front and rear fenders have been removed, and though I don't prefer this "naked" look too much, I am okay to put up with it.

Here's how the beast looked today morning after a nice shampoo wash.

Attachment 1221344
Hi amolpol , I am in love with your modifications , have been reading your thread regularly, so much so that I am an ardent fan of rocky beige(have a quanto in that colour), but got my thar booked in Black after seeing your "canonised snaps".I am going to get the thar in a week's time, and wanted your latest opinion on same oft repeated queries such as tyres and alloys. It will help me choose between the stock rims and new "midnight edition" alloy wheels(6.5j and 15 mm negative offset) and amongst 235/70r16 OE ht tyres vs 245/70r16 continental cross contact vs 245/75r16 maxxis 762 vs maxxis 764. My use is going to be 80% on road and 20 % off road. Also their were a couple of technical aspects that I was not very clear about after your replies.If you could pm me your number.Thanks in advance.
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Old 2nd April 2014, 18:38   #180
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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Hi amolpol , I am in love with your modifications , have been reading your thread regularly, so much so that I am an ardent fan of rocky beige(have a quanto in that colour), but got my thar booked in Black after seeing your "canonised snaps".I am going to get the thar in a week's time, and wanted your latest opinion on same oft repeated queries such as tyres and alloys. It will help me choose between the stock rims and new "midnight edition" alloy wheels(6.5j and 15 mm negative offset) and amongst 235/70r16 OE ht tyres vs 245/70r16 continental cross contact vs 245/75r16 maxxis 762 vs maxxis 764. My use is going to be 80% on road and 20 % off road. Also their were a couple of technical aspects that I was not very clear about after your replies.If you could pm me your number.Thanks in advance.
In that case;take a look at Maxxis AT 771 as well.
Best of both worlds at a VFM price.
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