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Old 2nd April 2014, 19:14   #181
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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new "midnight edition" alloy wheels(6.5j and 15 mm negative offset)
Which alloy wheel is this? Is Mahindra supplying these alloys?
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Old 3rd April 2014, 06:42   #182
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Which alloy wheel is this? Is Mahindra supplying these alloys?
OE Black alloys for thar are available at mahindra dealerships .
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Old 15th April 2014, 01:29   #183
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Hi amolpol , I am in love with your modifications , have been reading your thread regularly, so much so that I am an ardent fan of rocky beige(have a quanto in that colour), but got my thar booked in Black after seeing your "canonised snaps".I am going to get the thar in a week's time, and wanted your latest opinion on same oft repeated queries such as tyres and alloys. It will help me choose between the stock rims and new "midnight edition" alloy wheels(6.5j and 15 mm negative offset) and amongst 235/70r16 OE ht tyres vs 245/70r16 continental cross contact vs 245/75r16 maxxis 762 vs maxxis 764. My use is going to be 80% on road and 20 % off road. Also their were a couple of technical aspects that I was not very clear about after your replies.If you could pm me your number.Thanks in advance.
Dear pitstopcorp,

I'm guessing you may have already gotten delivery of your jeep by now, so congratulations for that! For the tyres, you could settle in for a good AT where the Yokos are a popular choice or the Michelin Latitude Cross if you want more comfort. The CrossContacts are good as well and although they won't be as comfortable as the Yokos or Michelins, they will serve you good offroad. For your indicated usage pattern, I wouldn't suggest the Maxxis MTs since these are noisy and bumpy on the road.

Also, if you're not going for the MTs, I'd suggest you stay with the 29 inchers (235/70/16 or 255/65/16) and not move to 31 inches (245/75/16). I hope this advise isn't coming in too late.

I'll PM you my contact info. (Edit: Just realized I can't do that because of your post count, maybe you can email me at amolpol at wildzests dot com)

On a closing note, here's what my jeep was doing the last weekend

A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde-jeep-1.jpg

Last edited by amolpol : 15th April 2014 at 01:32.
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Old 15th April 2014, 06:42   #184
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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Dear pitstopcorp,

I'm guessing you may have already gotten delivery of your jeep by now, so congratulations for that! For the tyres, you could settle in for a good AT where the Yokos are a popular choice or the Michelin Latitude Cross if you want more comfort. The CrossContacts are good as well and although they won't be as comfortable as the Yokos or Michelins, they will serve you good offroad. For your indicated usage pattern, I wouldn't suggest the Maxxis MTs since these are noisy and bumpy on the road.

Also, if you're not going for the MTs, I'd suggest you stay with the 29 inchers (235/70/16 or 255/65/16) and not move to 31 inches (245/75/16). I hope this advise isn't coming in too late.

I'll PM you my contact info. (Edit: Just realized I can't do that because of your post count, maybe you can email me at amolpol at wildzests dot com)

On a closing note, here's what my jeep was doing the last weekend

Attachment 1230281
Yes amol , I got the delivery of my thar on 6th , and apparently bought the cross contacts after a great search in Delhi, only to return them the next day, as almost 3 fitment centres despite repeated attempts failed to mount the tyre on the oe mahindra alloy even once.The tyre had a hard bead.Really wanted them bad but had to return them! Then I bought the Yokohama 235 70 r 16 unwillingly as I had no option , as I remember having read somewhere not to go for 245 70 r16 , because of some issues.
Could you provide more inputs on 245 70r16 and 245 75r16?
Your jeep looks great!
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Old 15th April 2014, 10:33   #185
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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Yes amol , I got the delivery of my thar on 6th , and apparently bought the cross contacts after a great search in Delhi, only to return them the next day, as almost 3 fitment centres despite repeated attempts failed to mount the tyre on the oe mahindra alloy even once.The tyre had a hard bead.Really wanted them bad but had to return them! Then I bought the Yokohama 235 70 r 16 unwillingly as I had no option , as I remember having read somewhere not to go for 245 70 r16 , because of some issues.
Could you provide more inputs on 245 70r16 and 245 75r16?
Your jeep looks great!
I'm not sure why you were not able to get the crosscontacts mounted on the alloys. They should be 6.5J alloys from the company and it should take upto 255 width tyre with ease even with hard side walls. I had the Maxxis on the stock rims initially so I am 100% sure this can be done.

Here's a quick comparison between the various size options
  1. 235/70/r16 - 29 inch, stock size, AT available but no MT in this size. Use this size for peace of mind for normal running conditions and switch to AT for some offroading.
  2. 255/65/r16 - 29 inch, one size up, AT available but no MT in this size, wider profile could cause some touching with stock rims or alloys, will need negative offset alloys. Use this if you want a wider stance for the jeep, the tyres will protrude a bit throwing up mud and water at the sides.
  3. 245/70/r16 - 29.5 inch, one size up, stock size on ford endy but very few decent AT options are available and again no MTs, will fit on stock rims/alloys and half an inch diameter increase shouldn't cause too much trouble (theoretically). Use this if you find some tyre that you really wanted to have since you were a kid, I don't think there's a big merit in changing the size.
  4. 245/75/r16 - 30.5 inch, two sizes up, starting size for MTs in 16inch, limited AT options, will fit on stock wheels/alloys but may cause some issues. Needs torsion bar adjustments to compensate for the GC increase. Use this only if you want the MTs and are ready to put up with poor braking performance and deafening tyre noise on the road (only to put a smile on your face off the road!)

So unless, you want the MTs, I would suggest you stick to option 1 or 2. The stock size isn't under-tyred for the jeep and it will have enough traction on the road for braking and high speeds etc.

Hope this helps!

Last edited by amolpol : 15th April 2014 at 10:35.
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Old 16th April 2014, 21:43   #186
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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I'm not sure why you were not able to get the crosscontacts mounted on the alloys.
=========
Hope this helps!
Yes , assuming the above i went straight for the yoko stock size.Hoping that the sidewall survives on each.
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Old 5th August 2014, 11:11   #187
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

Been a long time since my last update, nothing major to report except for a couple of minor issues. The jeep has been holding through pretty well and has seen some offroad action at Sakleshpur and Yercaud since April.

A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde-jeepyercaudtrail_2.jpg

Now, for the not so good news:

- Recently while I was getting the wheel alignment done, the guy noticed that the handbrake cable has been rubbing against the rear right tyre and has caused a small groover on the sidewall. The groove is about 1-2 mm deep so its not too bad to be worried about, but it could have eaten up the sidewall in some time. I got the ASC guys to look at it and they were shocked in disbelief that such a thing could happen. But again, there's no solution they could offer so I've just tied the cable using a plastic wire tie to prevent it from touching the tire again. Not sure how long that's going to work, I'll need to keep checking once every month to see if it needs attention.

- The other problem he showed me also related to the brakes. The LSPV spring was found hanging free as it had come off the lower anchor point. Now this is not something that was expected, and it seems to have happened post the last service which means it could have been that way for quite some time before I noticed. The spring is attached to a mount which has a plastic bush for the spring and rubber bush on the bolt assembly which is then locked on the side by a 3/8 inch C clip. The clip must have fallen off somewhere and thus the spring had slipped off the mount.

For now, I've done some jugaad to get the spring back in place where it's held by two wire ties and I've also replaced the C-clip, so hopefully it will stay that way for a while.

I want to understand a few things here:

- What happens to the brake distribution if the LSPV spring isn't functioning?
- Will the brakes fail due to this or its just the distribution is screwed up?
- Why would Mahindra not provide me a replacement but instead insist that I would have to buy the whole freaking brake assembly costing 2700 bucks for parts worth 13 rupees that are to be replaced? I sat with the spares guy and we located the three part no.s which showed a cost of 5, 5 and 3 rupees, but they're not sold separately is what I'm being told.
- The spares guys had a new spring as replacement for some 200 odd bucks, but surprisingly it doesn't come with the mounting. Strange isn't it?

None of the Mahindra guys were able to tell me what were the consequences of having such a failure, neither did they tell me how critical was the issue. I will try and post pictures of what I've done for now, but I want to make sure I have a permanent fix.
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Old 5th August 2014, 17:39   #188
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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1. While I was getting the wheel alignment done, the guy noticed that the handbrake cable has been rubbing against the rear right tyre and has caused a small groover on the sidewall. The groove is about 1-2 mm deep so its not too bad to be worried about, but it could have eaten up the sidewall in some time. 2. The LSPV spring was found hanging free as it had come off the lower anchor point. 3. What happens to the brake distribution if the LSPV spring isn't functioning? 4. I sat with the spares guy and we located the three parts at cost of 5, 5 and 3 rupees, but they're not sold separately is what I'm being told.
- The spares guys had a new spring as replacement for some 200 odd bucks, but surprisingly it doesn't come with the mounting. 5. None of the Mahindra guys were able to tell me what were the consequences of having such a failure, neither did they tell me how critical was the issue. I want to make sure I have a permanent fix.
Dear Amolpol - hello after a long time. I have numbered your questions from 1 to 5. Answers are as follows:

1. Handbrake cable is common with another model as the whole damn axle is common. Just tie it properly, nothing will happen. Changing handbrake cable part number and therefore axle part number is a herculean task of paper pushing within the company, not even worth discussing! .

2 and 4. The LSPV spring connection is supposed to be removed from the rear axle end by taking the circlip out when your vehicle is put on two post lift to attend to underfloor jobs like changing oil etc and put back after the work is completed. It is standard procedure. If this is not done, the full rebound (extended) position that the suspension gets on the lift expands the spring beyond its elastic limit, which results in LSPV malfunction. Some grease monkey has forgotten to put it back. Tell them to take the circlip off a total loss Scorpio. Every dealership thankfully has one wreck lying around!

3. LSPV regulates the rear brake pressure / effectiveness. Without LSPV, vehicle will yaw about the Zaxis (vertical axis) during panic braking.

5. This once again proves that training programs conducted in front of zombies do not work, but managers will still continue to do it because that is what they are told to do! Do me a favor, tell them the criticality of the spring and get one of your friends to ask them after a week. See what happens! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 5th August 2014 at 17:43.
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Old 6th August 2014, 06:19   #189
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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Been a long time since my last update, nothing major to report except for a couple of minor issues. The jeep has been holding through pretty well and has seen some offroad action at Sakleshpur and Yercaud since April. .
@amolpol beautuful jeep. Two questions: what lights are those and are they as effective on the road as they are on the asthetics? Second: What tires to you suggest to someone for aesthetics and drive quality on mostly tar driving.
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Old 8th August 2014, 20:39   #190
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1. Handbrake cable is common with another model as the whole damn axle is common. Just tie it properly, nothing will happen.
Thanks BD sir.

Yes, for now it's tied to the rear axle using wire ties such that there is enough movement but it won't go touching the tyre again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
2 and 4. The LSPV spring connection is supposed to be removed from the rear axle end by taking the circlip out when your vehicle is put on two post lift to attend to underfloor jobs like changing oil etc and put back after the work is completed. It is standard procedure. If this is not done, the full rebound (extended) position that the suspension gets on the lift expands the spring beyond its elastic limit, which results in LSPV malfunction. Some grease monkey has forgotten to put it back. Tell them to take the circlip off a total loss Scorpio. Every dealership thankfully has one wreck lying around!
I service my jeep at the XUV service center so there's are no dead scorpios lying around there. But I did manage to get the c-clip and have attached the spring using some regular washers to avoid it from slipping out. If this removal is SOP for every service, then I need to check it everytime I get it back from the monkeys.

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
3. LSPV regulates the rear brake pressure / effectiveness. Without LSPV, vehicle will yaw about the Zaxis (vertical axis) during panic braking.

5. This once again proves that training programs conducted in front of zombies do not work, but managers will still continue to do it because that is what they are told to do!
So the guys knew it was the LSPV spring, but didn't have a clue about whether it's safe to drive without it working. And they keep advertising to service at Mahindra ASCs because the monkeys there are better trained than road-side mechanics. One more "Mahindra Rise" moment here.

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Do me a favor, tell them the criticality of the spring and get one of your friends to ask them after a week. See what happens! .
Not really my job, but I shall try to educate them next time I visit. Or maybe I should drop a note to my contact who will make sure that all current generation mechanics get this as a service update.

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@amolpol beautuful jeep. Two questions: what lights are those and are they as effective on the road as they are on the asthetics? Second: What tires to you suggest to someone for aesthetics and drive quality on mostly tar driving.
Thanks monkey (btw, the references in my response to BD were not for you )

The fog lights are JCB work lamps and they are used mainly for lighting up about 5 feet around the jeep, mainly around the sides. They do that perfectly well because they're tilted a bit outside. They won't hurt the eyes of traffic coming towards you because of the highly dispersed beam pattern.

The Hellas 4000FF are spot beams with excellent throw and I use them only when its raining or pitch dark and there is no oncoming traffic. They're blinding for the guys coming towards you. They light up things about 100-150m very well and compliment the headlamps in situations where visibility is very poor.

PS> On the tyres bit, stick to the stock size All terrain tyres. Yokos are popular, but I recently saw the Michelin 235/70/16 LTX AT2 make a comeback. Those are brilliant tyres and I've used them extensively on the Safari.

Last edited by amolpol : 8th August 2014 at 20:42. Reason: Added PS
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Old 15th September 2014, 20:53   #191
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Dear Amolpol
BD Sir, an exploratory question for you and all the tech gurus. I'm wanting to do a dual battery setup for the Thar with an isolator to discharge the secondary battery for the accessories and keep the primary battery for starting.

Now, I want to get the second battery setup inside the engine bay itself vs putting it at the back or somewhere else. The current engine bay design doesn't directly allow for a second battery since it's quite cramped up. Even if the fuse box is relocated, it's a bit difficult to find enough space for another battery because of the wheel well (arch). So my first question is what is the most practical space that can be utilized for the second battery?

Now, with the isolator, it will charge the primary battery first and then the secondary battery. Will this need an upgrade to the stock alternator? I'm assuming the stock alternator is the 55Ah Bosch from the Bolero or is it the 90Ah from the Scorpio? Also, what are the direct upgrade options available within reasonable budget, Bolero MDI, Tavera, Scorpio, any other?

I don't want to upgrade the battery and the second battery will be the exact make and model like the stock one. The idea is to get the winch and all other accessories running on the second battery.

Here's a couple of pictures from Thar4x4's blog that shows the view of the engine bay for easy reference.

Appreciate the help!

A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde-thar19.jpg

A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde-thar20.jpg

PS> I have browsed through the existing threads on the dual battery setup but none of them had definite and conclusive endings that I could use in my case. Also, I'm planning to get the PAC 500 Amp dual battery isolator for this application, there is a 200Amp kit also available, but don't mind spending the extra bucks to keep the load at minimum.

Last edited by amolpol : 15th September 2014 at 21:00. Reason: Added PS
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Old 18th September 2014, 12:12   #192
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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BD Sir, an exploratory question for you and all the tech gurus. I'm wanting to do a dual battery setup for the Thar. 1. What is the most practical space that can be utilized for the second battery? 2. With the isolator, it will charge the primary battery first and then the secondary battery? 3. Will this need an upgrade to the stock alternator? I'm assuming the stock alternator is the 55Ah Bosch from the Bolero or is it the 90Ah from the Scorpio? Also, what are the direct upgrade options available within reasonable budget, Bolero MDI, Tavera, Scorpio, any other? 4. The second battery will be the exact make and model like the stock one. The idea is to get the winch and all other accessories running on the second battery. I'm planning to get the PAC 500 Amp dual battery isolator for this application, there is a 200Amp kit also available. 5. I don't mind spending the extra bucks to keep the load at minimum.
Dear Amolpol - my reply to your queries from 1 to 5 above is as follows:

1. First of all, there is absolutely no place in the engine compartment. Please see the body reinforcements given behind the firewall. These reinforcements are engineered to prevent body cracking at this location due to battery weight and validated by CAE. This was a major hurdle we had to pass in this platform, which is derived out of the Bolero platform. If you do any nonsense in the engine compartment, you will ruin the body, don't even think about it. There is nothing wrong in having two batteries, if fact, with the winch, you will actually need two batteries. The most practical place is just behind the front left seat. You can use the rollover bar bolting points provided when you build the bracket. You will have to be very careful to lay the positive cable properly to ensure electrical reliability. Any short circuit can be very dangerous, but if this is done properly, there is no need to worry. Negative cable can be ground to the chassis. You need to have the self-discipline to connect the nagative cable after the positive cable and disconnect the negative cable before the positive cable.
2. There is no need for anything fancy, "isolator" or whatever! You just need to connect both the batteries in parallel (+ve to +ve and -ve to -ve), that's all. Remember the connection and disconnection sequence at all times, this will keep you safe.
3. There is absolutely no need to upgrade the alternator, but if you do, you will build margin. The production alternator will charge both the batteries at the same time. The alternator is of Bolero VLX but you can use the Scorpio alternator as the boundary dimensions and the grooved belt length are same.
4. The second battery can be anything but same battery is preferred. You don't have to isolate anything to run off any particular battery, just keep everything as it is, everything will run off both the batteries. I had done the double battery setup and used it in many events, it gave me peace of mind when using the winch. On 12 July 1998, I had used a single winch to dig out almost 30 odd vehicles which were stuck at various angles during the most difficult Great Escape to-date which was in Silvassa! That winch on that Marshal 4*4 (MH15K2572 with two batteries setup) worked beautifully on that day, in tandem with my ever reliable CJ340 Invader (MH01P2540). The trick is to use the moveable pulley setup to reduce the winch load. This is a very slow process and it takes time, but even the impossible looking vehicles were dug out of the muck by this method! In the end, there was a slope to be climbed to reach tarmac. After all the vehicles were taken out, the Marshal winched itself out and then the good old CJ340 Invader flew out of the slope on its own power in low third gear, yours truly driving it! The video of what both those vehicles did on that day would be priceless to see today. Silvassa Great Escape is the story of legends. That's the power of 4*4!
5. If you have the extra bucks you can give me some of them, I am a poor guy "Saar"! . (just kidding!).

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 18th September 2014, 19:21   #193
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

I would opt for one of the no-maintenance closed batteries. This way you will never spill any battery acid inside your vehicle. Battery acid will destroy your mats, your carpet, your clothes, your paint, your skin, your tongue (don't ask me how I found that out). I usually ground the battery right to one of the bolts holding the seat. Or, I drill a hole right in the body sheet metal, remove a little paint to get to the bare metal for a good connection, and install a good sized bolt to connect the ground wire to. I also put a quick release plug in the circuit somewhere, usually the hot wire, just in case of emergencies. If something goes wrong I can just pull apart the wire at the quick release plug and that is that. I use 2 cage cable, expensive but bullet proof.

Please keep in mind that when your engine is running, electricity is provided mostly from the alternator, not the batteries, unless you are drawing more than the alternator can deliver. Also, car batteries are not really built for big discharges followed by big recharges. Google "deep cycle batteries". However, auto batteries will probably serve your need in this case. Pay attention to where your cable goes thru sheet metal. You do not want vibration to let the sheet metal chafe away the insulation of your cable and give you a nasty short-circuit.

Last edited by DirtyDan : 18th September 2014 at 19:25.
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Old 4th November 2015, 09:57   #194
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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Dear pitstopcorp,

===========
On a closing note, here's what my jeep was doing the last weekend

Attachment 1230281
@amolpol - what is the best way to reach you? can I have your email, have a few questions. thanks
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Old 10th November 2015, 16:32   #195
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@amolpol - what is the best way to reach you? can I have your email, have a few questions. thanks
You can reach me at:

amolpol at gmail dot com
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