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Old 2nd July 2013, 23:15   #121
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

Thought I'd do a quick update on the status of the Thar so far.

The Odo has barely crossed the 7k mark in about 8 months of having it, you can easily make out that this isn't my daily drive. Actually, I don't have to drive everyday which is the real reason behind the low mileage. It's done a few highway trips to Kabini/Bandipur apart from the Chennai, Kottayam and Mumbai for the OTRs. Given so many monsoon OTR events lined up, the odo will be ticking like a clock soon!

The Happy things:
  • The Thar has performed flawlessly in the OTRs so far and I am very satisfied with what it can do. Now one can argue if I've pushed it to the limits, the answer to that would be a yes. I've been participating in the OTRs where I've not had to back off as yet because the Thar couldn't do something which the older conventional jeeps could do.
  • It can cruise comfortably at about a 90-100kph on the highway, still has a lot of juice left for overtaking. Max I've taken it is about 130kph, albeit with a lot of nervousness. I'm not a speed freak and I believe in maintaining average speeds vs top speed. Moreover, I don't think anyone would enjoy the bouncing, rattling and tyre noise at high speeds.
  • The soft top has behaved well so far and apart from the occasional flapping at high speeds, there's been no leakage or any other complaint so far.
  • The A/C worked okay in the summer maintaining bearable temperatures even on a hot day. It chills the cabin in the evening or on overcast days.
  • The wipers actually work in the rains, I didn't expect this so it was a pleasant surprise.
  • I get random stares from people while in traffic and frequent questions on how much I bought it for etc etc. Momentary joys of owning a jeep!

Now, the Not-So-Happy-Things:
  • The brakes still suck! I've gotten them checked again last week by the ASC and have been told that they've checked it thoroughly and bled them etc etc. But I don't think that it's good enough. I still have the pedal losing pressure at times and have consciously started to pump it quickly for the braking to happen without drama.
  • The holes on the floor are bringing in all the water and mud inside the cabin. Need to get all the holes plugged, but not finding time for it. I don't think it is a manufacturing defect, but more of an oversight and an irritant for sure.
  • There is water seepage through the door beading and water can be seen in the driver and passenger footwell if the car is standing in heavy rain.
  • Excessive tyre noise with the Maxxis Bighorns - can't blame anybody but myself for this. But the off-road performance of the tyres takes away this grudge.
  • The rear bumper with the tire carrier gave way on my last trip to Kottayam. The whole rear door fell off with the tyre and the hi-lift jack attached to it while I was cruising on the highway at near triple digit speeds. Luckily nobody was behind me at that time else this incident would have turned really ugly. The root cause was being narrowed down to the weld joint at the base where the tailgate door is hinged, but I'm awaiting further report from Viji sir. I must say that he's been very professional and readily offered to replace the whole bumper if he's not able to reinforce and weld back the current one.
  • Just a couple of days back, I've faced an issue with the starter which needs to be checked. On the turn of the key, there is no cranking for the first time and only a click sound is heard. However, the second attempt brings the engine to life and thereafter I've not noticed any issues like drop in power etc. This happens about 1 out of 3 times and it's the first thing to get inspected once I'm back in Bangalore.

Finally, here's a picture to end the update: (you can see the tyre missing at the back and the hole in the rear bumper right above the LTD sticker from where the bumper swing door broke off)

A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde-thar-1.jpg
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Old 3rd July 2013, 09:01   #122
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

Quote:
Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
Thought I'd do a quick update on the status of the Thar so far. The Odo has barely crossed the 7k mark in about 8 months of having it, you can easily make out that this isn't my daily drive. ...
Well, we're running quite a similar driving pattern, though I am a shade under 7000 on the odo. Agree with you on all the happy things.

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Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
The brakes still suck! I've gotten them checked again last week by the ASC and have been told that they've checked it thoroughly and bled them etc etc. But I don't think that it's good enough. I still have the pedal losing pressure at times and have consciously started to pump it quickly for the braking to happen without drama.
I am sorry I don't recollect whether you 've done the booster upgrade or not. So, is this problem with or without the booster upgrade?

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Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
[*]The holes on the floor are bringing in all the water and mud inside the cabin. Need to get all the holes plugged, but not finding time for it. I don't think it is a manufacturing defect, but more of an oversight and an irritant for sure.
Please please please document with pictures where all you have found holes. I have got carpeting done already but feel there are some holes unplugged still. Your inputs on this will ensure that I don't end up ripping the entire carpeting out and stick to where it is needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
[*]There is water seepage through the door beading and water can be seen in the driver and passenger footwell if the car is standing in heavy rain.
I have worked a solution around this, let me know if you are aware about it else I can point you to the relevant post in my thread.
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Old 3rd July 2013, 11:28   #123
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

Quote:
Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
Thought I'd do a quick update on the status of the Thar so far.

[*]The rear bumper with the tire carrier gave way on my last trip to Kottayam. The whole rear door fell off with the tyre and the hi-lift jack attached to it while I was cruising on the highway at near triple digit speeds. Luckily nobody was behind me at that time else this incident would have turned really ugly. The root cause was being narrowed down to the weld joint at the base where the tailgate door is hinged, but I'm awaiting further report from Viji sir. I must say that he's been very professional and readily offered to replace the whole bumper if he's not able to reinforce and weld back the current one.

Finally, here's a picture to end the update: (you can see the tyre missing at the back and the hole in the rear bumper right above the LTD sticker from where the bumper swing door broke off)

Attachment 1105266
Hi amolpol,
I hope you remember my PM to you regarding the rear tyre carrier a couple of months back. I had complained of the squeaking noise and excessive shake of the tyre carrier on my vehicle. Finally have come up with a solution to arrest the shake 99% and also made a lock system which reduces the load that was entirely on the chassis. No shaking or squeaking for the last month

I have attached a few pics of the mod.

Pic1 : I felt that the tyre was entirely on the ends of the carrier ie the lock and the hinge. Now have provided the center support to arrest the shake of the carrier while in motion. It has to be closed in such a way that the lower cross bar is rested firmly on it.

Pics2: After I had seen a post on FB about one of the carriers falling off, got really scared. Imagine what could have happened to the person behind. Luckily no one was hurt and thank you very much for sharing it on the forum. So got a L angle from the carrier plate to be seated on my boot platform of the jeep. That way i could lock it up and would serve as a boot as well as safety lock for the carrier with some load distributed to the boot platform too. Hope this "jugaad" works.

Regards
Barani
Attached Thumbnails
A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde-20130703-11.16.jpg  

A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde-20130703_101717.jpg  

A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde-20130703_101624.jpg  

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Old 3rd July 2013, 11:39   #124
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
It's done a few highway trips to Kabini/Bandipur apart from the Chennai, Kottayam and Mumbai for the OTRs. Given so many monsoon OTR events lined up, the odo will be ticking like a clock soon!
Hi Amol,
You can join Pune offroaders for our once in a fortnight OTR. See you at MGE Lonavala.

SHubhendra
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Old 3rd July 2013, 12:11   #125
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

Quote:
Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
  • The holes on the floor are bringing in all the water and mud inside the cabin. Need to get all the holes plugged, but not finding time for it. I don't think it is a manufacturing defect, but more of an oversight and an irritant for sure.
Wouldn't these be the drain holes provided for water to drain off? (which can get in while wading through water or rains in case the soft top is off).
Though I think there are few more than needed. I plugged some of them with nuts/ bolts but left 3-4 holes open, just in case. I agree muck and dust can get through, I removed my carpeting because of this as the carpet would always remain damp during the rains causing the floor to be wet all the time.

Regards,
Nitin
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Old 3rd July 2013, 16:46   #126
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

Quote:
Originally Posted by amolpol View Post
1. The Thar has performed flawlessly in the OTRs so far and I am very satisfied with what it can do. Now one can argue if I've pushed it to the limits, the answer to that would be a yes. I've been participating in the OTRs where I've not had to back off as yet because the Thar couldn't do something which the older conventional jeeps could do.

2. The soft top has behaved well so far and apart from the occasional flapping at high speeds, there's been no leakage or any other complaint so far.

3. The A/C worked okay in the summer maintaining bearable temperatures even on a hot day. It chills the cabin in the evening or on overcast days.

4. The rear bumper with the tire carrier gave way on my last trip to Kottayam. The whole rear door fell off with the tyre and the hi-lift jack attached to it.

5. Finally, here's a picture to end the update: (you can see the tyre missing at the back and the hole in the rear bumper right above the LTD sticker from where the bumper swing door broke off)
Dear Amolpol - hello after a long time. As usual, I have numbered your comments. My answers are as follows:

1. HaHaHa, good one there for all the critics! I thank you and humbly request everyone to stop cribbing. The vehicle is superb and you guys know it, period!

2. Thank you. This canopy is exactly what I always wanted in my Jeep! I am not happy with the button system above the doors. It was done for "obvious reasons" . Except for this and the tailgate bottom flap, it is perfect, don't mess with it, please! Please go through the fitment exercise, if done properly, there will be no flapping at all. I have the complete design of the door top in my head but -----.

3. I always knew that Thar would be the first successful AC adaptation on a soft top vehicle, when I told people, they would not believe me, now you have proved it correct, therefore, thank you!

4. Of course, the thingy was waiting to fall off! It is the worst cantilever you can do. The only way to make it work is to remove the cantilever and convert it into a simply supported beam. I hope BE (Mechanical) TeamBHPians have not forgotten "Strength of Materials", taught in the third semester!

5. This photograph is priceless to me. Your vehicle looks much more macho without the spare wheel. At the risk of sounding repititive, I will say that it looks like my MH01V521! HaHaHa!

By the way, insist on the brakes upgrade, please! . Safety first!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 4th July 2013, 01:28   #127
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

Hi Amolpol,
I dont have any testing equipment or the resources to support my theory. I just wanted to show what has worked for me which may not be proven. The industry i work with is 100% Jugaad ie borewell machinery. I do not remember much of my SOM classes during my Mech engineering but this is what i could gather from the world wide web.

A beam may be defined as an element in which one dimension is much greater than the other two and the applied loads are usually normal to the main axis of the element. Beams and columns are called line elements and are often represented by simple lines in structural modeling.

cantilevered (supported at one end only with a fixed connection)
simply supported (supported vertically at each end; horizontally on only one to withstand friction, and able to rotate at the supports)
continuous (supported by three or more supports)
a combination of the above (ex. supported at one end and in the middle)
**source structural engineering . Wikipedia.

http://mechteacher.com/beam/

for more details with diagram. From what I can configure.

The carrier was designed to act as a simply supported beam when it was locked on the other end. ie A simply supported beam is a type of beam that has pinned support at one end and roller support at the other end. The pinned support might have been suspect due to the heavier load tires that we have used.

What i might have done : A continuous beam has more than two supports distributed throughout its length. It can be understood well from the image on page.

Please excuse my ignorance if i'm wrong. Maybe the Japanese know it right!

Regards,
Barani
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Old 4th July 2013, 15:37   #128
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Amolpol -

By the way, insist on the brakes upgrade, please! . Safety first!

Behram Dhabhar
Hi BD sir,

I have THAR CRDe and would like to know about Brakes Upgrade. I am enduring on 8000+ KMs drive in my THAR this August, and would like to get the brakes upgraded from Mahindra service dealers itself. What needs to be done with upgrades?
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Old 9th July 2013, 13:47   #129
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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I am sorry I don't recollect whether you 've done the booster upgrade or not. So, is this problem with or without the booster upgrade?
I havent upgraded the brakes yet, its still the stock setup and it stinks! There are conflicting reports on whether the brakes are being upgraded under warranty or not, mostly the answer has been a No. I know you got the brake booster upgrade done under warranty, but that doesn't seem to be the norm. Someone said that Mahindra is working on a solution to the braking issue and will have an official release of the upgrade, not sure how true it is.

I will go in for the upgrade only post warranty to keep things simple, unless there is an official announcement for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet View Post
Please please please document with pictures where all you have found holes.
Will try and get pictures and upload!

Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet View Post
I have worked a solution around this, let me know if you are aware about it else I can point you to the relevant post in my thread.
I think I've seen what you did, as of now I'm not too disturbed by this problem since I have a covered parking and it doesn't rain so much in Bangalore. Its just a little irritating to see water seeping inside the cabin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by commander View Post
Hi amolpol,
I hope you remember my PM to you regarding the rear tyre carrier a couple of months back. I had complained of the squeaking noise and excessive shake of the tyre carrier on my vehicle. Finally have come up with a solution to arrest the shake 99% and also made a lock system which reduces the load that was entirely on the chassis. No shaking or squeaking for the last month

Hope this "jugaad" works.

Regards
Barani
Yes, I do remember our PM conversation on this topic. I think what you've done is a practical mod to prevent it from shaking and hence save it from the fatigue failure. In my case, this will be a bit difficult to do since the L-bracket mounted on the floor will mean encroachment in the luggage area behind the backseat.

Viji sir has said he'll look at ways to reinforce the hinge joint on the bumper or provide additional support to prevent this from happening again. Will wait and see what he comes up with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Hi Amol,
You can join Pune offroaders for our once in a fortnight OTR. See you at MGE Lonavala.

SHubhendra
It was nice to meet you at the Lonavala event. Had to leave the very next day so couldn't have joined you for the OTRs, may be some other day we'll cross paths again.

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Originally Posted by nitin_80 View Post
Wouldn't these be the drain holes provided for water to drain off? (which can get in while wading through water or rains in case the soft top is off).
I do think they'll act like drain holes which is good, but the original intention may have been different is what I feel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post

1. HaHaHa, good one there for all the critics! I thank you and humbly request everyone to stop cribbing. The vehicle is superb and you guys know it, period!
I can strongly say that the Thar has proved its worth off-road. I couldn't be happier with the way it tackled the obstacles. The only place I felt the need for more power was while doing steep ghat climbs on tar roads. May be a tuning box will help, but this isn't a dealbreaker at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
2. Thank you. This canopy is exactly what I always wanted in my Jeep! I am not happy with the button system above the doors. It was done for "obvious reasons" . Except for this and the tailgate bottom flap, it is perfect, don't mess with it, please! Please go through the fitment exercise, if done properly, there will be no flapping at all. I have the complete design of the door top in my head but -----.
I did get the alignment done recently because the fibre board above the front two seats had gotten mis-aligned. The flapping only happens beyond 100kph so I dont think there's an inherent design or fitting issue here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
3. I always knew that Thar would be the first successful AC adaptation on a soft top vehicle, when I told people, they would not believe me, now you have proved it correct, therefore, thank you!
The A/C works like a charm, I did a 1000km run from Bangalore to Mumbai almost non-stop and the inside weather was maintained good at all times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
4. Of course, the thingy was waiting to fall off! It is the worst cantilever you can do. The only way to make it work is to remove the cantilever and convert it into a simply supported beam. I hope BE (Mechanical) TeamBHPians have not forgotten "Strength of Materials", taught in the third semester!
This one cracked me up, I'm also one of those BE Mech TBHPians

Actually its not the cantilever effect that makes it prone to failure, its supported on two points but has a Z axis movement which is what causes the trouble. The failure looked like a welding issue more than a design flaw, but I do think that the design can be adapted to work better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
By the way, insist on the brakes upgrade, please! . Safety first!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
The brake upgrade shall happen either when Mahindra announces it, or the warranty gets over, whichever happens first!
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Old 9th July 2013, 17:35   #130
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

You still didn't get what BD sir said. look at your jeep from the side. The wheel is hanging in the air. It is a cantilever. that needs to be supported. If anyone has seen the merc M-class of a previous generation, you'll find the wheel supported. Do check it out.
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Old 9th July 2013, 18:47   #131
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
You still didn't get what BD sir said. look at your jeep from the side. The wheel is hanging in the air. It is a cantilever. that needs to be supported. If anyone has seen the merc M-class of a previous generation, you'll find the wheel supported. Do check it out.
I got what he said, but here there are two points where a cantilever situation arises, the lower point where the failure occured which is the bumper door hinge and the point where the tyre is mounted on the bumper frame. The point where the tyre attaches to the bumper isn't the issue, it's the door swinging in the Z axis for the lower cantilever arm which causes the stress.

A simple restraint which will hold the bumper door in place at a slightly higher point will solve the issue - similar to what Mr.Barani has done. But that needs a bit of redesign in order to keep it easy for opening the rear door and keeping luggage etc.

If it doesn't work out, then the better option would be to just get the bumper fitted without the door, mount tyre at default position and design another mount for the hi-lift jack. My primary reason for the door type bumper design was the ability to mount the tyre and the hi-lift jack on it.
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Old 9th July 2013, 22:07   #132
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

I would still ask you to look at the m class tire holder from a previous generation. The failure occurred due to a load acting at a distance from your point of breakage. that's the torque that got applied when going over bumps. so to restrict that and better distribute the hanging weight of the wheel it would be advisable to make that kind of a mount.


Remember its not a downward force that's breaking the hinge point. its the turning force, the torque. Restrict it.

Last edited by navpreet318 : 9th July 2013 at 22:09.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 13:23   #133
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

Hi Amol,

What is the progress on the Jeep post the incident? How has been the response of M&M service guys?
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Old 22nd August 2013, 16:02   #134
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

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Hi Amol,

What is the progress on the Jeep post the incident? How has been the response of M&M service guys?
Waiting for parts to arrive, the jeep is still at the ASC. Hopefully it'll be out in time for the Sakleshpur event.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 16:46   #135
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Default Re: A Biker to a Jeeper - Mahindra Thar Crde

Dear Amolpol - the first photograph got posted on 08 August, that means the incident is at least 15 days old today. How much time does it take for production "parts to arrive" at a major dealership in a major city? It's not more than a day's job to get the car on the road if the back end is robust!

Make noise yaar, you are the "customer"!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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