Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16th March 2013, 00:17   #151
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,042
Thanked: 13,487 Times
Default Re: Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP

After 30 days of stay at the workshop, the Jeep is finally back.

The heating problem is fixed I think, but I have to confirm it with a drive to Agumbe ghats, which I can do only next month after I return from Bangalore.

The radiator is changed to 4-core. The primary fan changed to the clutch type, I am yet to understand how this works though. The IDI engine is very prone to heating, so got rid of the extra I, making it a DI type.

Hmm, that's about it for now.
Samurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2013, 01:46   #152
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Planet E.A.R.T.H.
Posts: 140
Thanked: 7 Times
Default Re: Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
After 30 days of stay at the workshop, the Jeep is finally back.

The heating problem is fixed I think, but I have to confirm it with a drive to Agumbe ghats, which I can do only next month after I return from Bangalore.

The radiator is changed to 4-core. The primary fan changed to the clutch type, I am yet to understand how this works though. The IDI engine is very prone to heating, so got rid of the extra I, making it a DI type.

Hmm, that's about it for now.
You converted it from IDI to DI? How did you manage that?

Any changes to driveability?

Comparing DI to IDI, the first things that come to mind are noisier, higher torque and no need for glow plugs. How have engine characteristics changed in your jeep?
'72 Bullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2013, 06:38   #153
Senior - BHPian
 
svsantosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hosur
Posts: 3,308
Thanked: 1,252 Times
Default Re: Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP

are u getting a engine swap to di?
svsantosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2013, 09:49   #154
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,042
Thanked: 13,487 Times
Default Re: Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
are u getting a engine swap to di?
Quote:
Originally Posted by '72 Bullet View Post
You converted it from IDI to DI? How did you manage that?
When I was climbing the Shiradi ghats en-route to Bangalore, I realised that the engine was overheating even without AC. That means the cooling circuit was not in great shape. After that I sparingly used the AC, keeping my eye on the temp gauge all the time. While the Jeep did exceedingly well at the OTR, I could sense a vibration at idle by the end of the event. The engine wasn't sounding very healthy even to my non-discerning ear. But I had no choice but drive back to Manipal. The drive itself was uneventful though the various engine sounds was giving me the creeps.

Look at how engine vibrated at idle. This stops once when the A-Pedal is pressed. So now my problems were more than just overheating.



The mechanic diagnosed it as one valve is missing, or compromised. More can be known only after opening the engine.

Hmm, opening the engine....

Now, I know what that means. Once we open, nothing short of full overhaul will be required. And overhauling a XD3P is very expensive, it can easily cost 40-45K. And there was this experience:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreejeshmp View Post
Last time I spend around 40-45k for rebuilding the XD3P but after 6-7 months of Drive I burned the gasket again & that fuel pump Hates water So thought this time no Engine rebuild on a XD3P (My NGCS XD3P is with EGR & small ECU) and on an XD3P there is a maximum that we can play around on Power delivery and there is no guarantee on 80 degree temp.
Since I have AC, I just need one careless moment to cross over the temp limits. That means the XD3P can be back in the dog house even after spending so much money.

Last year while looking at the performance of Sachin's MM550 DI, I had started toying with the idea of getting a DI engine when I eventually switch to MM550. While the DI is noisier, I won't need a heating circuit and it stays cool even with AC. But the cost of a DI engine kept such thought on the back burner.

Now I had to decide whether to live dangerously with a XD3P engine or upgrade to DI engine. There was also a question of getting a reliable DI engine, which has very high demand since it is a very reliable work horse.

Meanwhile, Sachin had upgraded his Jeep from DI to DI turbo, and his older DI got sold like hot cake in December for 70k.

Out of the blue, I get a call from Sachin:

He: Why don't you take my DI engine?
Me: Huh, didn't you sell it two months back?
He: Yeah, but the buyer is yet to pay me after 2 months. Don't think he has the money.

So we make a deal, I get a friend's discount and we are on. My XD3P gets sold for 15K even before it is unmounted.

I'll post the details with photographs later when I have time. I took delivery of the MM550 DI on Friday. Since the Jeep is still on 4.88 ratio, I am experiencing too much torque, need to switch to 4.27 soon. Yes, the DI is noisy, but the closed cabin helps.

Right now I am not seeing any overheating even with AC. Need to test it thoroughly in Agumbe ghats again. No more waiting for glow plugs to heat the chamber either. The cooling system is fully changed too, details later.
Samurai is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2013, 12:00   #155
BHPian
 
sreejeshmp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 623
Thanked: 571 Times
Default Re: Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP

Congrats Sharath. 3200 Di is really a WorkHorse, fit it forget it, is it really made by Mahindra ? may be its called the accidental design . Waiting for the detailed pics on Engine Mount details.

- Sreejesh
sreejeshmp is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2013, 14:56   #156
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Planet E.A.R.T.H.
Posts: 140
Thanked: 7 Times
Default Re: Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP

Samurai, I thought you'd somehow converted the XD3P to DI
'72 Bullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2013, 15:18   #157
Senior - BHPian
 
svsantosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hosur
Posts: 3,308
Thanked: 1,252 Times
Default Re: Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP

YAY!!

Congrats on the engine swap... What a shift in keeping the CJ to its most stock'est form in 3 years and in no time getting a 550XDB and making it a 550DiK

I was very close and actually still in the market for a Di or a DiTurbo for my AG and had to drop off the Scorpio engine for cost reasons. My AG is currently returning 8.5Kmpl and its huffing and puffing thru its rings and I am really not interested to rebuild a XD3P!! I am 70% inclined to Di and rest towards Di-T.

Please post LOTS and LOTS of detailed engine mount pics and AC mount pics on your Di engine, I really want to see and learn.

If you recollect this why I wanted to contact Sachin but I never got a reply from him on FB and somehow forgot to send a reminder.

Please tell me - did your GB move from its original position, actually let me break down the question.

1) Did the GB mounts move when you swapped from BA10 to KMT90?
2) Did the 'KMT' GB mounts move when you swapped XD->Mdi3200?

Cant wait to see your reply...

Last edited by svsantosh : 19th March 2013 at 15:23.
svsantosh is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2013, 16:25   #158
Senior - BHPian
 
ex670c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chennai
Posts: 2,454
Thanked: 1,789 Times
Default Diffs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I'll post the details with photographs later when I have time. I took delivery of the MM550 DI on Friday. Since the Jeep is still on 4.88 ratio, I am experiencing too much torque, need to switch to 4.27 soon. Yes, the DI is noisy, but the closed cabin helps.
Hi Sharath,

Consider 31" Tyres with 4.88 diffs.

The Taller tyres will improve road speed and off-road ability (ADR angles) of the MM540.

If you have to you can try something new 41/9 4.55 from the tata pickups.

Regards,

Arka
ex670c is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2013, 23:28   #159
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dhanushs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bathery/BLR
Posts: 3,406
Thanked: 3,930 Times
Default Re: Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP

Nothing can beat the ruggedness of the good 'ol Di!!.. Its a blessing to not look into the temperature gauge every 2 minutes! You will now get an even better FE, me thinks!

However, one thing I might be concerned of is: The engine mounts.

The Di conversions I have seen, works pretty well on Jeeps that are mainly used On-Road, and in Estates.. However, I know two off-road Jeeps with more than one instance of breaking their mounts/cracking chassis! Been wondering if the factory fit MDi can work on the CL550 C-Section chassis, why cant it work on the MM550?!

Going forward, can you please closely watch out for what I have mentioned above, and post some detailed pics of the engine mounts. It will really help me make a decision.

Once again, congrats on the conversion!. May you have thousands of trouble free, ac cooled, temperature gauge free, torquey miles on your 550!
dhanushs is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th March 2013, 12:18   #160
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,042
Thanked: 13,487 Times
Default Re: Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP

Quote:
Originally Posted by '72 Bullet View Post
Samurai, I thought you'd somehow converted the XD3P to DI
If only Harry Potter donates his wand to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Congrats on the engine swap... What a shift in keeping the CJ to its most stock'est form in 3 years and in no time getting a 550XDB and making it a 550DiK
I had the CJ340 for 4.75 years. But the 550 went from XDB -> XD -> DI in few months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Please post LOTS and LOTS of detailed engine mount pics and AC mount pics on your Di engine, I really want to see and learn.
Not easy to shoot photographs of GB mounts. I might bring it to Bangalore next month, you can see it in person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
1) Did the GB mounts move when you swapped from BA10 to KMT90?
2) Did the 'KMT' GB mounts move when you swapped XD->Mdi3200?
I am not so sure since I was not present at the garage in both cases. You will have to check it in person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Consider 31" Tyres with 4.88 diffs.

The Taller tyres will improve road speed and off-road ability (ADR angles) of the MM540.

If you have to you can try something new 41/9 4.55 from the tata pickups.
The 31 inch option is tempting, but expensive. The 4.55 option sounds interesting, gotta explore that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Nothing can beat the ruggedness of the good 'ol Di!!.. Its a blessing to not look into the temperature gauge every 2 minutes! You will now get an even better FE, me thinks!

However, one thing I might be concerned of is: The engine mounts.
The new engine mount looks like this:

Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP-014.jpg

The engine before the air filter housing was installed, notice that the clutch is hydraulic now:

Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP-015.jpg
Samurai is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th March 2013, 12:24   #161
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,850
Thanked: 15,406 Times
Default Re: Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP

Regarding engine mounts, did you try sourcing "teflon" mounts. Many companies sell uncut teflon, which have to be put on a lathe and shaped(just like rubber mounts/bushes for some parts)
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2013, 20:39   #162
Senior - BHPian
 
svsantosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hosur
Posts: 3,308
Thanked: 1,252 Times
Default Re: Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP

Samu just noticed - ac is not connected in the pic with a belt right? Got any post pics?
svsantosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd April 2013, 09:10   #163
Distinguished - BHPian
 
4x4addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,889
Thanked: 2,303 Times
Default Re: Diffs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Hi Sharath,
Consider 31" Tyres with 4.88 diffs.
Sharath since your primary purpose of this jeep is to go offroad, I agree with Arka's comment that you should stay with 4.88 and upgrade tyres to 31 inch. You will end up with a balanced gearing and more GC.
4x4addict is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2013, 20:12   #164
Team-BHP Support
 
Samurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: B'lore-Manipal
Posts: 22,042
Thanked: 13,487 Times
Default Re: Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Sharath since your primary purpose of this jeep is to go offroad, I agree with Arka's comment that you should stay with 4.88 and upgrade tyres to 31 inch. You will end up with a balanced gearing and more GC.
Yeah, I think I'll go with this, although I don't have funds for a tyre upgrade right now. Looks like 31x10.5/R15 is my only option. Frankly, don't want to go so wide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Samu just noticed - ac is not connected in the pic with a belt right? Got any post pics?
I have been ridiculously busy since March, so I am having little with the Jeep. I'll post some photos though.

The clutch is hydraulic now.

Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP-p3160003.jpg

But it is hanging dangerously...

Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP-p3160002.jpg

The air-filter is changed to paper type. But it is not matching with the snorkel kit I sourced from Viji. Still scratching my head on that one.

Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP-p3160004.jpg

The view under the hood.

Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP-p3160005.jpg

Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP-p3160008.jpg

The fan is now of clutch type, supposed to run 4 times faster than the engine rpm. I am unable to understand how this works. Any idea?

Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP-p3160009.jpg

The electric fan that is located in front of the radiator can be triggered by a heat sensor, if the engine crosses 80C. Just an extra insurance.

Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP-p3160010.jpg

Today I did 4WD testing, first time after installing DI engine. Remember the hill behind my office backyard, I usually did it in 2nd low in my former CJ340, which had 5.38 ratio. Today after doing the same in 2nd low, I tried it in 3rd low. It climbed effortlessly. Imagine, climbing that hill in 3rd low. Anyway, that is the fun while using DI with 4.88 ratio. I am also able to take 90 degree turns at 4th gear (high) in pretty low speeds.

After 15 minutes of offroading, I was completely satisfied with the offroad performance with DI engine. The temp gauge didn't cross 50C. Oh, did I mention I was using the AC entire time.

Once negative point. I noticed that the suspension action has reduced, decreasing the ride comfort. Is it because the heavier engine is compressing the leaf springs more? Should I get the leafs re-cambered or add another leaf?
Samurai is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th April 2013, 11:51   #165
BHPian
 
prabhuav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 670
Thanked: 112 Times
Default Re: Hardtop MM550 : A family friendly offroader joins Team-BHP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Once negative point. I noticed that the suspension action has reduced, decreasing the ride comfort. Is it because the heavier engine is compressing the leaf springs more? Should I get the leafs re-cambered or add another leaf?
Eggjaacktleeee..


you need to add at least two leaves to compensate...and be very very careful when you take jumps... this engine chews through chassis
prabhuav is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family Samurai 4x4 Vehicles 1469 6th July 2017 14:42
A villager from Gujarat joins Team BHP HJ13 Introduce yourself 22 29th August 2011 22:59
1998 MM550 XDB 4WD Joins Team-Bhp Family sreerajunnithan 4x4 Vehicles 63 27th October 2008 10:21


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 07:31.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks