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Old 3rd May 2013, 01:32   #181
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LOL! touchy are we . Did I hit a wrong chord? Look, I am not trying to pull down your build. Which I will again say is a very professionally done transplant. What is perplexing me is the sudden aversion everyone has with XD3P on this forum (which I have on my machine) and love for DI transplant (which I have never driven a good example of). Now I am fully satisfied with XD3P and it is also used by Arka, GTO, Fazal, Romy-NIOC, all good offroaders and data banks on vehicles. All satisfued so why the transplants?
Anyway here goes my reply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
A XD3P with a dubious history is a ticking timebomb and rebuild cost was near to the cost of a DI engine.
If you got DI for ~50K after exchange with reliable history and not needing rebuilt for next 1 lakh kms I did say you got a great deal. Kudos.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
A 15 year old Jeep is hardly factory fitment. The engine had been worked on multiple times before.
I meant the engine foundations, driveline alignment, leveling of engine, vibrations, distance from radiator etc etc which a workshop can never match to factory standards.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
By law a busted engine should be replaced with the same engine. If the old engine is discontinued, it should be replaced by the current engine offered for that vehicle. When GTO lost his XDP, he had to buy XD3P, which was the next available engine. What is the current engine offered by Mahindra for MM550 if one wants to buy brand new? Obviously, it is the DI engine. I can't afford to buy brand new engine, so I got a used one.
NO SIR! By law the engine number should match the engine no. mentioned in your RC book period. Whether you buy new engine off the shelf, from scrap yard etc etc is all secondary. Btw if GTO has not got his engine number updated in RC book (which is a mammoth task let me tell you, even if your engine is replaced under warranty by company itself they normally don't go this route and stamp the old engine no. on the new engine) his vehicle is also not road legal period.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
If you want to go by the legal definition, even changing to a different size tyre will make your vehicle illegal. Even adding auxiliary lights is illegal. Changing brakes in Thar to make it reliable using Behram's method is also illegal.
Double LOL. How does highlighting others wrongdoing absolves us?

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
What about cars with non-OE tyres or non-OE anything. How does it work for Dabwali jeeps that run on Toyota Engine? Don't they have third party insurance?
Insurance company will always insure your vehicle no questions asked. Its only when its time to pay up in case of a mishap they will squirm their way out. There are instances where insurance company have denied claim due to non OE bull guard fitted onto the vehicle. For engine number not matching they will just smile at you.
Try and take the dabwali jeep to chandigarh, there was a huge drive against these by cops some time back. These contraptions were flagged down by cops at the first intersection and engine, chassis no. checked by them and consequently the vehicle was impounded.

We have gone on a tangent and missed my basic question which is
1. what are the advantages of DI that made you go for it.
2. The engine transplant may be OK for a offroad only vehicle but I guess your vehicle will see a fair share of on road driving with your family. For a slight increase in torque is it justifiable? Really intrigued by your move.

I guess your answer is that it was affordable.

If road legality is not an issue for you IT IS OK. TO EACH ITS OWN. THAT WAS NEVER MY QUESTION.

For all I care you may drive down to rastrapati bhawan in your DI jeep waving a double barrel and explain to the NSG after they have pinned you down that you saw people jumping redlights and using pocket knives on rajpath so assumed this would also be OK .

cheers
vishwas

Last edited by Rehaan : 3rd May 2013 at 11:55. Reason: 2 smileys max per post please.
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Old 3rd May 2013, 10:49   #182
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Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
LOL! touchy are we . Did I hit a wrong chord?
Hmm, no. What made you think so? I checked my previous reply, can't see where I was touchy. I was surprised though, I will give you that. I was surprised because you chose me over all other hundreds of other engine transplants, many of them very well known. You are almost 5 year old member, so you can't be unaware of them.

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Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
Look, I am not trying to pull down your build. Which I will again say is a very professionally done transplant.
Thanks, all credit goes to the mechanic. He has done hundreds of engine re-builds and lots of transplants. He knew exactly what to do, otherwise I would not have attempted this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
What is perplexing me is the sudden aversion everyone has with XD3P on this forum (which I have on my machine)
I have no aversion to Peugeot engine. I had XDP on my CJ340 for 5 years, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I never complained about torque. I was in fact very happy with the XD3P on my MM550. But when it started having back compression problem, I had to make a choice. I heard many stories of failed XD3P rebuilds, and there was this DI engine sitting in the same garage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
Now I am fully satisfied with XD3P and it is also used by Arka, GTO, Fazal, Romy-NIOC, all good offroaders and data banks on vehicles. All satisfued so why the transplants?
GTO's classic came with XDP, now it has XD3P. That is called a transplant. He bought a brand new XD3P from Mahindra and got it registered with RTO, so it is totally legal. Since it is a new engine, it works beautifully. Probably the same case with Fazal's CJ340, as XD3P never came in SWB Jeeps. Arka can't be compared with me, he is almost full mechanic and can keep any engine ticking forever. He has changed everything but the engine. And Romi has what.. 17 Jeeps? Why compare him with me? I don't have anywhere near skill or knowledge of these guys, so I took the safer route.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
If you got DI for ~50K after exchange with reliable history and not needing rebuilt for next 1 lakh kms I did say you got a great deal. Kudos.
Thanks, that DI engine belonged to a fellow offroader here. It was just overhauled last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
I meant the engine foundations, driveline alignment, leveling of engine, vibrations, distance from radiator etc etc which a workshop can never match to factory standards.
I know. But this mechanic has done lots DI transplants, as it is the most common transplant for load carrying vehicles. I trust his experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
NO SIR! By law the engine number should match the engine no. mentioned in your RC book period. Whether you buy new engine off the shelf, from scrap yard etc etc is all secondary. Btw if GTO has not got his engine number updated in RC book (which is a mammoth task let me tell you, even if your engine is replaced under warranty by company itself they normally don't go this route and stamp the old engine no. on the new engine) his vehicle is also not road legal period.
GTO did get his RC book updated. I too will check with my local RTO about doing the same since DI is the current upgrade for XD3P engine. I wouldn't have a prayer had I gone for Toyota engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
Double LOL. How does highlighting others wrongdoing absolves us?
You seem to be enjoying this. I didn't say it absolves me. I was merely wondering why you targeted me of all the other transplants and modifications.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
We have gone on a tangent and missed my basic question which is
1. what are the advantages of DI that made you go for it.
2. The engine transplant may be OK for a offroad only vehicle but I guess your vehicle will see a fair share of on road driving with your family. For a slight increase in torque is it justifiable? Really intrigued by your move.
(1) Bulletproof Reliability (2) Ability to handle AC without stressing the engine.

It wasn't for the torque, for I was very happy with the torque of XD3P. It is clear you don't know, but I never craved for more torque.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishwaschettri View Post
For all I care you may drive down to rastrapati bhawan in your DI jeep waving a double barrel and explain to the NSG after they have pinned you down that you saw people jumping redlights and using pocket knives on rajpath so assumed this would also be OK .
That's a strange metaphor. But, I am curious. Am I the first engine transplant example you came across in this forum? I don't recall waving the double barrel at anybody while driving my DI.
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Old 3rd May 2013, 11:27   #183
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Oh what a couple of posts!

Samu - I have a Copy of r.c book in my gang which clearly has a engine transplant endorsed with a 2nd engine number printed and acknowledged by local RTO, would you like a copy of it here (masked).?

And I am very sure there is a clause to do a engine change and present the vehicle as in a F.C check and get it endorsed in the RC. I have done a FC check myself for a jeep and I know what they check and look for.

From mobile (e&OE)
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Old 3rd May 2013, 12:39   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Samu - I have a Copy of r.c book in my gang which clearly has a engine transplant endorsed with a 2nd engine number printed and acknowledged by local RTO, would you like a copy of it here (masked).?
Don't put it here, privacy issues. Just PM it to me, will be useful while I try to do the same with my RTO.

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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
And I am very sure there is a clause to do a engine change and present the vehicle as in a F.C check and get it endorsed in the RC.
Exactly, it is quite a common occurrence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
I have done a FC check myself for a jeep and I know what they check and look for.
Me too. When I went to FC check with the CJ340, I had the Yokohama AT-S tyres and the winch in the front. They had many questions about the tyres and winch, and were quite impressed with the vehicle.
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Old 5th May 2013, 18:20   #185
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Sammy, my Invader with its 4:88 diffs and its MDI3200tc motor will blow the doors off my brand new Thar CRDe at low speeds e.g. starting from stop and going up hill at low speeds. And not just by a little bit, either. MDI3200tc with its instant-on little turbo will give you all its got "right now" whereas I have to wait for my Thar to get its revs up so its turbo will kick in. On my Thar I envision riding the clutch to compensate. This is not the way you want to get out of the mud or go up a switch back. You will enjoy the heck out of the torque of the MDI3200xx if you get it geared right IMHO. I am seriously considering getting a Thar DI and swapping in Army axles and diffs just to get what I've got in my Invader, but in a jeep.
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Old 5th May 2013, 21:42   #186
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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
I am seriously considering getting a Thar DI and swapping in Army axles and diffs just to get what I've got in my Invader, but in a jeep.
Great minds think alike . A set of Army axles i.e 57 inch OKBJ front and 53 inch full floating rear axle from 2007 NGCS Army 550 are getting prepped to go into my Thar DI.
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Old 6th May 2013, 07:27   #187
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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Sammy, my Invader with its 4:88 diffs and its MDI3200tc motor will blow the doors off my brand new Thar CRDe at low speeds e.g. starting from stop and going up hill at low speeds. And not just by a little bit, either. MDI3200tc with its instant-on little turbo will give you all its got "right now" whereas I have to wait for my Thar to get its revs up so its turbo will kick in. On my Thar I envision riding the clutch to compensate. This is not the way you want to get out of the mud or go up a switch back. You will enjoy the heck out of the torque of the MDI3200xx if you get it geared right IMHO. I am seriously considering getting a Thar DI and swapping in Army axles and diffs just to get what I've got in my Invader, but in a jeep.
Try the situation in idle in the CRDe - Its auto anti stall feature may surprise in some situations.

I agree though the engine is dead below 1700-1750 rpm.

The engine rpm may drop to 800 before settling in at 1100 rpm without A pedal inputs!

Electronics at play!
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Old 7th May 2013, 15:48   #188
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
... from 2007 NGCS Army 550 ....
Hi Tini.
Congrats for the axle swap.
I was wondering whether the chassis and body of the 2007 NGCS army 550 you are talking about is up for sale. If so, I think I know the right person to whom you can dispose it off to.

Cheers
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Old 7th May 2013, 16:06   #189
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Slightly OT:

After reading the discussion in this thread about having a new/transplanted engine endorsed by the RTO, I searched for the relevant provisions of the MV Act, and this is what I got: http://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/mot...icles-act.html

Can someone well versed with legalese please translate item no 52 [alteration in motor vehicle] for me please?

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 7th May 2013, 16:40   #190
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Can someone well versed with legalese please translate item no 52 [alteration in motor vehicle] for me please?
Ah, here is the relevant clause.

Quote:
(3) Where any alteration has been made in motor vehicle without the approval of registering authority or by reason of replacement of its engine without such approval under sub-section (2), the owner of the vehicle shall,, within fourteen days of the making of the alteration, report the alteration to the registering authority within whose jurisdiction he resides and shall forward the certificate of registration to that authority together with the prescribed fee in order that particulars of registration may be entered therein.
I am past 14 days, I guess that means additional fines.
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Old 7th May 2013, 23:28   #191
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Ah, here is the relevant clause.

I am past 14 days, I guess that means additional fines.
Hi Samurai,

While you are up to it, can you check and let us know whether this procedure is applicable PAN India. I am asking because I have almost finalized purchase of a used MDI3200 for my CJ500D. When I approached my RTO agent to enquire about the engine change procedure, he shoo'ed me away telling that only brand new engine with relevant receipt of purchase can be endorsed. Anything else will be considered illegal.

Now I am in a dilemma whether I should pick up that used MDI3200 or not. There's no way I am gonna invest money in a brand new MDI3200. I'll be broke. Any help in this regards will be appreciated.

Last edited by Sabareesh : 7th May 2013 at 23:35.
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Old 11th December 2013, 21:38   #192
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Samurai-san

As part of the engine swap, barring the obvious engine, what other parts did you end up swapping out?

gracias!
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Old 11th December 2013, 23:07   #193
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I replaced the KMT90 gearbox too, the one with hydraulic clutch. Before the Sakleshpur MGE, I also changed the ratio from 4:88 to 4:27 for handling long highway drive. It still has lots of torque, I would still consider 31x10.5R15 tyres if it is available in AT. I ain't mounting MT tyres on my Jeep.
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Old 12th December 2013, 08:52   #194
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I ain't mounting MT tyres on my Jeep.
Maxxis Trepedors offer decent amount of on-road grip, and give around ~30k life. Considering you offroad mainly in Coorg and nearby areas, with slush, MT's should make a point.
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Old 12th December 2013, 09:05   #195
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Sharath, If you haven't bought your rims, yet or if you can trade you rims for 16, you can get MRF Wanderer 265/70/16. They are same OD and tread width as 31x10.5x15. This is what I am running. New ones are about 7.5K per tyre. Good value for money.
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