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Old 16th January 2013, 17:29   #76
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damm, not so close!! I am enticed to say the gear wheel worn out from once such past experience, in a different armada thread Suresh sir recomends the actual shifter rod inside the Tcase - this can be accessed from the front of the Tcase without dis-assembling any major. but in my fix, the whole tcase has to be disassembled!

PS - For the distant future AC layout fix...

My AG has both top and bottom radiator hoses on left side... i will post pics soon.

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Old 16th January 2013, 19:12   #77
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I already have a workshop appointment for early morning tomorrow. If we can fix it by tomorrow, the OTR drive will happen. Or else...

BTW, having AC in a wet liner engine is a risky business. It can heat up in no time if you leave it on while climbing steep inclines. Yesterday it was about to enter the red zone, when I was climbing the long Manipal incline. I quickly switched the AC off. If one overlooks the temp gauge, engine can seize in no time.

How to avoid this? Can I connect the AC through a relay that can be triggered to cut-off if the temp gauge crosses 100C? Technically possible I think, but do we have such a device available?

Last edited by Samurai : 16th January 2013 at 20:29. Reason: stupid typo
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Old 16th January 2013, 19:43   #78
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.. The 4WD lever had snapped back from 4L to N.
Shibu's 550 (Now Sold) has this issue. You can try removing the top of the TC and clean and properly install it. If the problem is not solved, then the gears is worn out. This is not a quick fix. Will take time.
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BTW, having AC in an inline engine is a risky business. It can heat up in no time if you leave it on while climbing steep inclines.
Why is this a property of an inline engine sir? Can you please elaborate?

As for the problem, there is one solution that you can implement effective, and fast. There are two pulleys in the water pump pulley. A larger diameter one and a smaller diameter one. As I see in the pics, your water pump is driven from the crank pulley through the larger dia water pump pulley.

Drive the water pump through the smaller diameter pulley. This will make the water pump work harder and also the fan spin harder. This will take the temperature down by atleast 10-15 degrees. In my case, as my alternator was aligned with the smaller pulley, I had to just shift the belt from the larger pulley to the smaller pulley. However, you have to check if alternator is properly aligned with the smaller pulley, if not align it and change the belt so that the belt drives Crank>Alternator>Smaller pulley in water pump.

The compressor is driven directly from the crank. So no need of touching it.
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Old 16th January 2013, 20:07   #79
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Why is this a property of an inline engine sir? Can you please elaborate?
If you are asking for reason, you are asking the wrong person. Ever since I bought the CJ340 in 2008, I have been told never to let the engine cross 100C. Apparently a wet inline engine can't handle excess heat. Why the difference between wet vs dry, I have no idea.

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As for the problem, there is one solution that you can implement effective, and fast. There are two pulleys in the water pump pulley. A larger diameter one and a smaller diameter one. As I see in the pics, your water pump is driven from the crank pulley through the larger dia water pump pulley.

Drive the water pump through the smaller diameter pulley. This will make the water pump work harder and also the fan spin harder. This will take the temperature down by atleast 10-15 degrees. In my case, as my alternator was aligned with the smaller pulley, I had to just shift the belt from the larger pulley to the smaller pulley. However, you have to check if alternator is properly aligned with the smaller pulley, if not align it and change the belt so that the belt drives Crank>Alternator>Smaller pulley in water pump.
Interesting idea, let me discuss with the mechanic tomorrow.

Last edited by Samurai : 16th January 2013 at 20:11.
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Old 16th January 2013, 20:20   #80
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I think what you were told is to avoid overheating an engine with wet cylinder liners. (As opposed to one with dry liners)
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Old 16th January 2013, 20:24   #81
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If you are asking for reason, you are asking the wrong person. Ever since I bought the CJ340 in 2008, I have been told never to let the engine cross 100C. Apparently a wet inline engine can't handle excess heat. Why the difference between wet vs dry, I have no idea.

Interesting idea, let me discuss with the mechanic tomorrow.

Ah! What you mean is wet 'liner' as opposed to dry. The Peugeot engines used by M&M have wet liners (the cylinder bore).

Nothing to do with inline, V or boxer layout.
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Old 16th January 2013, 20:27   #82
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I think what you were told is to avoid overheating an engine with wet cylinder liners. (As opposed to one with dry liners)
You are right. Instead of saying wet liner, I said inline.

Edit: When I wrote 'inline' I was visualizing the piston sleeves, but didn't remember the right name.

Last edited by Samurai : 16th January 2013 at 20:32.
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Old 16th January 2013, 21:39   #83
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If you are asking for reason, you are asking the wrong person. Ever since I bought the CJ340 in 2008, I have been told never to let the engine cross 100C. Apparently a wet inline engine can't handle excess heat. Why the difference between wet vs dry, I have no idea.
That is true.. Especially the engine you have (XD3P), I would be very wary of crossing even 90. The wear and tear is much higher. The minimum is a head gasket change, and the maximum is a complete rebuild. And, one other funny part of this XD3P is that, even though its smooth, refined and better powered when compared to XDP 4.9, the rebuild is a head ache and will cost a bomb. When, the OE rebuild kit of the 2.1 liter one costs just ~6k, working on the head ~3k and labour ~3k, and you are left with an almost brand new engine.

In this case, some have even spent more than 40k, not to be satisfied. So, please be ultra cautious about the engine temperature.

Even though the thermostat might be working fine, I would suggest to remove it, as if at all it gets blocked, and it goes unnoticed, then it would be really bad.

Experts can elaborate more.

Last edited by dhanushs : 16th January 2013 at 21:40.
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Old 16th January 2013, 22:25   #84
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Samurai san, Any idea on the horsepower and/or torque loss due to the compressor being added? Does the compressor use power even if the AC is not turned on?
Also, How is the legroom for the passenger with the uniblower unit now fitted?
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Old 16th January 2013, 23:24   #85
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Sharat - in all probability you have a working thermostat in your jeep, While purists would shoot me down, I would say remove that for a few days and check the performance, temp wise.
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Old 16th January 2013, 23:30   #86
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Yeah, Sachin suggested the same this evening when we discussed about the heat issue. But I am not so sure there is a Thermostat. If there is a thermostat, the temperature will come to 80C very fast, even without the AC. But it takes long time to reach 80C, so there may be no thermostat.
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Old 17th January 2013, 09:05   #87
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Dear Sharath - XDP4.90 engine vehicle with 5.38:1 axle ratio will reach 80 degrees C in approximately 3 minutes 11 seconds from dead cold without AC without condenser fitted in Vbar max test mode in GVW condition at 40 degrees ambient temperature with wind velocity <3m/s without pulling load (driving in full throttle condition on high speed track at VRDE).

Obviously your vehicle does not have thermostat. While the engineer in me is saying that this is not correct, the practical guy in me is saying leave it alone due to the non-standard AC inclusion in the system. Please check total water capacity. It must not be less than 13 liters. Please check that the radiator cap is closing properly and operating at correct pressure. If no, you will get coolant loss. The resultant you know, its deadly!

A worthwhile suggestion, old generation radiator cap is always suspect. See the Bolero with XD3P engine. It uses the Indica degassing tank. See if you can incorporate it in your vehicle. As the pressure cap will come on the degassing tank, at least cap problem will be solved completely. Also, the degassing tank will increase the water capacity by 1.5 liters, which is always good as it increases factor of safety.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 17th January 2013, 11:23   #88
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Dear Sharath - XDP4.90 engine vehicle with 5.38:1 axle ratio will reach 80 degrees C in approximately 3 minutes 11 seconds from dead cold without AC without condenser fitted in Vbar max test mode in GVW condition at 40 degrees ambient temperature with wind velocity <3m/s without pulling load (driving in full throttle condition on high speed track at VRDE).
Hi Behram, I have moved on. Now I have XD3P with 4.88:1 axle ratio. Today morning I watched how long it took to reach 80C with AC at minimum setting. It took 15 minutes and 8Kms to reach 80C. I also reached the workshop at the same time. So I couldn't check further.

Bangalore guys, breath deeply... yes, I did say 15 minutes for 8Kms. It is still possible in smaller towns.

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Obviously your vehicle does not have thermostat. While the engineer in me is saying that this is not correct, the practical guy in me is saying leave it alone due to the non-standard AC inclusion in the system. Please check total water capacity. It must not be less than 13 liters. Please check that the radiator cap is closing properly and operating at correct pressure. If no, you will get coolant loss. The resultant you know, its deadly!
On my way back from Bangalore, it never crossed 80C in 400kms, so I suppose everything should be fine. But now I have to cope for the extra cooling needed for the AC.

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See the Bolero with XD3P engine. It uses the Indica degassing tank. See if you can incorporate it in your vehicle. As the pressure cap will come on the degassing tank, at least cap problem will be solved completely. Also, the degassing tank will increase the water capacity by 1.5 liters, which is always good as it increases factor of safety.
This is something I want to explore. I'll readup your old post on it again.

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Samurai san, Any idea on the horsepower and/or torque loss due to the compressor being added?
I am sure there is, but it is not apparently to me yet.

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Does the compressor use power even if the AC is not turned on?
There is certainly frictional loss since the pulley is connected all the time.

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Also, How is the legroom for the passenger with the uniblower unit now fitted?
The passenger seat can be pushed back quite a bit. I don't think it will be an issue.

I managed to get a workshop slot today morning. Usually that's tough at short notice, my mechanic has a long line of vehicles waiting for his attention. Since I am shortly leaving for Bangalore for the OTR, he gave me a priority slot.

I am hoping it will be something quick to fix.
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Old 17th January 2013, 12:24   #89
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Now I have XD3P with 4.88:1 axle ratio. Today morning I watched how long it took to reach 80C with AC at minimum setting. It took 15 minutes and 8Kms to reach 80C.
Dear Sharath - Did you take 15 minutes with AC or without AC? With XD3P engine and its additional power on tap, are you still running the old radiator? If yes, it will not work. I'll need to dig out the XD3P cooling system results, I don't remember offhand but there was quite a large difference in the requirement for powerplant cooling. We had to go for the cross flow radiator for army NGCS for the same reason, without AC. Is your engine with oil cooler (4500rpm) or without oil cooler (4000rpm)? Please revert. Oil cooler is situated below the oil filter cartridge.

You will need to put on your R&D hat once again I guess! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 17th January 2013, 12:46   #90
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Dear Sharath - Did you take 15 minutes with AC or without AC? With XD3P engine and its additional power on tap, are you still running the old radiator? If yes, it will not work.
Old radiator? This is a different Jeep. This civilian 1997 MM550 came with the XD3P and coolant based radiator. Not oil cooled, think not.

Yes, it took 15 minutes to reach 80C with AC at minimal setting.
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