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Old 10th December 2012, 22:23   #1
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Default Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience

Introduction
I know this is a long pending due from my side and I excuse the members and Tata Xenon fans for the delay in this review. I also thought it would be good to provide a more detailed ownership review after I have driven the truck for few thousand kilometers. However this little planned delay become a long pending due. It’s been about an year and half since purchased and I have covered about 20000Kms so far, so it's high time I spare some time to share my experience.

Model: Tata Xenon XT MFL EX 4X4.
Engine : Only one engine type was offered which was 2.2L Dicor engine doing duty on Safari
Variant: 4X4. Only two variants 4X2 and 4X4 was launched as lifestyle vehicles
On Road Price in Bangalore as of April 2011: Rs.12,55,000/-
Discount: Rs.75,000/- inclusive of exchange bonus, corporate discount and additional discount
XT stands for Cross Terrain
MFL stands for Minor Face Lift which was launched at end of 2010. The MFL version had following improvements; Beige interiors and faux wood finish console, ABS with EBD, Alloys from Safari, Tyres of 235/70/R16, rear bumper as standard and a strengthered lower arm.

ODO reading so far: 20700Km

For all those folks here on Team BHP who might be eager to know what made be buy the Tata Xenon, continue to read further on the history section below for an answer.

Some History: What I do and my previous rides?

I work in an IT organization in Bangalore and drive about 60-80Km/day in my Indica to commute to office. I have been passionate about wildlife since childhood and have been actively involved in wildlife photography and amateur research for more than a decade now. This passion required me to have a reliable 4X4 vehicle to take me to all such places where a normal vehicle cannot go. In the initial days me and my friend & partner in passion used to own a Mahindra Classic followed a Gypsy MG410 which had been our mode of transport. Both these vehicles though are the best serious off roaders then lacked certain comfort level and did not meet some of our criteria’s. We spent considerable amount of money in modifying the suspension, increasing the ground clearance, using rubber beadings between chassis and body shell to reduce engine vibration transferring to camera via tripod, etc. Yet these mods did not fulfill all our requirements.

The impact of driving the Gypsy inside the forest extensively for couple of years (btw 2000-2005) had it’s toll on our backs and spine. The average mileage of running inside the forest was nearly 500-700Km per month apart from the highway running. Combined with this health issue, the cost of running a petrol Gypsy which was prone to regular repairs and few incidents of getting stranded in the middle of an elephant country at late evenings led us to start thinking for a better alternative.

The features and capabilities that I required in my vehicle:

Some of our important requirements I wanted in my next upgrade were
1.Comfortable seating for 5 people for daily usage.
2.Economical to run and maintain, so a diesel engine was default.
3.Off-road ability (4X4).
4.Good ground clearance (min 200mm).
5.Open bay for photography /filming (which can offer 3600 view without obstacles).
6.HVAC system for hot weather.
7.Secured cabin to protect the camera gears while travelling.
8.Ability to cruise at a minimum speed of 110-120Kmph on highway with ease and stability.
9.Preferably one vehicle for daily office usage as well as for weekend photography trips to forest.

Unfortunately we could not find any reliable and economical off roader that could replace the capabilities of Gypsy while meeting the above requirement. In essence I wanted a vehicle which has the capability of an off-roader with the creature comforts of a hatchback/sedan. The closest alternate at that time was Tata TL which wasn’t good looking and somehow I wasn’t too comfortable to accept it as a right alternate for my needs.

The Birth of Tata Xenon: A beginning of a long dream

During the Bologna Motor Show in Feb 2006 my eyes fell on Tata Motors new offspring called Tata TL Sprint (refer below pic). On looking at the new Tata TL Sprint and it’s specifications I realized that our most suitable vehicle was in the making. This is the day when I started dreaming of buying the Tata TL Sprint (aka Tata Xenon XT) which finally came true in May 2011 after 5 years of dreaming.

The below image was the first ever display of Tata Xenon
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Tata Motors officially launched the Tata TL Sprint as Tata Xenon in 2008 in international market with a 3 liter engine and in both single and double cab versions, but not in India. The Tata Xenon was finally launched in India in Feb 2009 with the much refined 2.2 liter Dicor engine. Unfortunately due to Tata’s famed A.S.S. and at a price point which was quite on the higher side the sales numbers did not make any mark. It appears that Tata Motors is not serious about promoting this model as it never advertised apart from the only full page ad in newspapers on the day of launch.

Alternates for Tata Xenon

1. Tata TL
2. Scorpio Getaway
3. Bolero Camper

Between the Bologna Motor show and the actual India launch Mahindra had launched the Scorpio Getaway which seemed most suitable. But the Scorpio Getaway’s load bed seemed quite high from the ground which would impact the angle at which I will be shooting/filming the wildlife. But having seen the Xenon and knowing that it was a true pick-up and not a derivative of an SUV, I decided to wait. The Tata TL and Bolero Camper did not even qualify for initial shortlisting as they were not as polished and sophisticated compared to Getaway and Xenon.

Coming up next: In flesh experience and test drive impressions

Last edited by Pardus : 10th December 2012 at 23:19. Reason: Tweaking as per policy
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Old 10th December 2012, 22:59   #2
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Default Re: Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience

First Impressions and experience with Tata Xenon

When the Xenon was launched in 2009 I managed to get a test drive (4X2 only) through Malik Cars, Hyderabad (Had relocated due to a new job). This was the first time I was experiencing the Xenon in flesh and I was still impressed with its looks and functionality. The Xenon performed extremely well on highway (Nehru ORR) touching 140 effortlessly and with great comfort & stability. However the fit and finish of interiors with cheap looking charcoal grey plastic and the cost of a 4X4 version coupled with me being in Hyderabad without doing much activity in photography I decided to postpone and continue to use my modified Gypsy MG410 for daily drive.

In 2010 I moved back to Bangalore and reinitiated my wildlife activities which led me to start looking for Xenon again seriously. At the same time Tata motors displayed the face lifted version of Xenon with ABS, beige interiors and Safari alloys and bigger tires. I started scouting for more information, brochure and revised rates with Tata dealers across Bangalore and also to have a test drive. However there was not even a single vehicle available even to see, let alone test drive until early 2011. And I was never in favour of buying a vehicle without having seen and experienced it. So every time I was at Concorde Motors servicing my Indica I made a point to check with the sales guys about the Xenon. This kept me connected with some of the sales representatives and only one or two of them were aware and informed about Xenon, while some never had heard about Xenon.  I also kept in touch with a fellow (first) Xenon owner on T-BHP who provided me with lot of feedback about the positives and negatives. This feedback helped strengthen my decision and thoughts as Xenon to be the best suitable vehicle for my needs.

Test Drive of MFL (2010) version and booking experience:

In Feb 2011 while talking to the sales representative Praveen at Concorde Motors I was informed that there was a 2010 version available at their stock yard which I could have a look at. Mr. Praveen said he could get the vehicle to his showroom the next day for me to test drive and experience the vehicle. I went to Concorde showroom the next day and had a detailed look at the vehicle and took it to a test drive onto some open land near Mysore road. The torque experienced in 4L mode was a stunning feeling and increased my confidence making me feel that this was no nonsense 4X4 (and not a soft roader). Having used to driving a light weight Mountain Goat (aka Gypsy) driving the more powerful & heavy masculine Bison (aka Xenon) was a trilling experience.

Since this piece was readily available and the prices were expected to increase from 1st of April, 2011, I immediately paid the booking advance and confirmed the booking. However there was a catch to this readily available vehicle. I was told that this was an October 2010 manufactured model and was lying in the stock yard for long time. If I opt to buy the same, then I would get some decent discounts from Concorde and TML, but if I opt for a fresh one then I would need to wait 1-2 months. I consulted my friends and folks on Team-BHP and felt the discount was worth if Concorde could take responsibility on changing all the fluids and provide the guarantee on the battery. Concorde agreed to my conditions and I decided to make the booking. However since I was travelling to US on business, I took delivery of the vehicle by end of May 2011.

Financing Challenges: Immediately after booking, I applied for loan with SBI which to my surprise was rejected for reasons known only to them. Then I spoke to few private banks, but during the discussion realized that their internal systems did not list the Tata Xenon model, due to which they could not initiate the application (talk about automation). I finally walked down to Corporation bank and spoke to the manager and gave her brief insight into what I do and why I am buying this truck so that she is better equipped to take a decision. Gladly she was impressed and loan was approved in less than 10 days after all documentation was provided.

Delivery: I had downloaded the PDI Checklist from TBHP and had modified it to suit my review. This helped me review each and every aspect of the vehicle and also ensured that I sent out a clear message to Concorde that I was not one of those regular car buyers. I completed the PDI and gave them a days time to attend to and have the vehicle ready for delivery next day. On the day of delivery the vehicle was ready and Concorde made a small Pooja and handed over the keys.


My view on Tata Xenon XT ?

Unlike other pickups from Mahindra, the Tata Xenon was a true pickup which was designed from ground up to be pickup model for the world and not a derivative of an SUV or MUV. This gives the Xenon its own identity unlike Getaway or Genio.

What I like:
1. Stunning muscular looks, a serious head turner. Kids just shout with joy when they see Xenon on road. I have had people chase me in highway to stop and look at the vehicle.
2. Very controlled Highway driving. Even after hours of driving I do not feel fatigue.
3. Excellent 4X4 for most of the practical usages. I have been driving in Westernghats during peak rainy season in slush, loose soil and slopes.
4. Improved braking due to ABS & EBD.
5. Wider tyres (235/70/R16)
6. Anti-reflective rear view mirror, a great advantage during night driving.

What I don't like:
1. Long body, means you cannot squeze in city traffic.
2. Upright rear seats.
3. Tail gate door is not part of central locking system and it's not easy to fix this after market.
4. Not so great service from TML.
5. Extreme pricing which is atleast 2 lakhs above it's worth.
6. Consistent rattling of door pads. Takes experienced and passionate mechanic to fix this permanently.
7. Air bags would be welcome.

Size: Looong and butch. The length of Xenon is about 17ft, which is almost 2ft longer than Safari or other SUV’s.

Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience-xenonxt2.jpg

Exterior Looks: While looks are always subjective, for me Tata Xenon XT was Muscular, Tough, Mean, Utilitarian, Adaptable, Comfort and a Workhorse. While all these character’s were good for my weekend wildlife projects, I used to wonder will this be right for my daily commute and will it gel with the IT atmosphere. Well with its clear line and smooth surfaces I feel Xenon XT is not just tough/rough looking but also elegant in some ways. Of all the pickups available in India no vehicle can match the looks of the Xenon, even the newly launched Mahindra Genio DC.


Interiors: Tata Motors changed the interiors of Xenon from Charcoal Grey to Beige with the Minor Face Lift version in 2010 model (post September 2010). This facelift gave much better quality plastic improving the look and feel of the interiors. The front row seats have lumbar support, but are not height adjustable. The rear seats are pretty upright which is fine for short distance commuting, but will be bit uncomfortable for journeys beyond 4-5hrs stretch, especially when you feel like taking a nap. The cabin is pretty spacious for 5 adults to sit comfortably. The cabin is also well dampened to reduce external and engine noise. I have got so used to driving with all my window glasses up because of this, makes you feel so peaceful even in chaotic city driving.

Dashboard in beige and faux wood treated console.
Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience-xenon206.jpg

Faux wood touch for door handles.
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Leather wrapped Steering Wheel
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Reading and Roof lights for front and rear row passengers.
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Rear Seats - See the limited incline and leg space
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Some space underneath and behind rear seats. This is where I keep the Towe rope and other emergency kit
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De-humidifier and headlight levelling switch
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Air Conditioning controls
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Position for placing Dead Pedal, however TML has not bothered to provide one for Indian market.
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Floor Console - A place holder to keep phone, coins, etc
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Engine/Braking/Handling: Tata Xenon XT shares the engine with Safari and in same tune. It comes with 2.2 ltr Dicor engine pumping 140BHP power while being 300Kgs less heavy. The engine is pretty smooth and provides good response in both city and highway driving.

Tata's famous 2.2L Dicor Engine
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Air Conditioning: The AC cools of pretty fast and there is not much difference in pickup when the AC is on, except if you are starting the engine and are in an incline.

Gear Shift & Transmission: The gears engage quite well without any force, but not as butter smooth as petrol cars. Sometimes I feel there is less power in 3rd gear. The know however felt pretty big for small hand size, so I got the gear knob changed.

4X4: This was one of the biggest and key decision makers for me in selecting the vehicle I required. There were not many good examples of its capability except for Monish’s vehicle. But after testing the 4L mode on plain ground I could feel the huge difference in power compared to what I had experienced in my Gypsy or Mahindra Classic. I knew even with the Xenons weight this was good enough for my needs. I have driven extensively in 4H and 4L mode in Western Ghats and I can confidently says Xenon has traversed some of the toughest terrains. It did so without even showing a bit of strain in such places where a Gypsy would have struggled. Not sure if the sheer weight of Xenon helps it maintains the grip and traction.

Electronic 4WD (4X4) switch
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Fuel Efficiency: I haven't checked this seriously, but feel I get about 8-9Km in city driving and about 12-13km in highway driving. (Highway driving at average speeds of 110Km)

Suspension & Ride Quality: The IFS in 2010 version has been stiffened since the earlier version had a tendency to dunk under sudden braking. Since Xenon has leaf springs at rear it feels bit bumpy if you drive on speed breakers at certain speed, especially when there is no load at the back (load bed). However due to the length of the Xenon even rear passenger are seated ahead of the rear wheels, so this bump does not travel to the rear passengers. The drive is pretty comfortable even for long drives and busy city roads.

Handling, on-road behaviour and grip levels: Xenon XT 2010 model comes with ABS and EBD, so the braking has improved to a great extent compared to the previous version. While the manual says max speed is 160Km/hr I have driven at speeds above 175Km/hr. The vehicle is pretty plonked and grips the road and never felt I would loose control upto the speed of 160Km/hr, beyond which you feel you should have more braking distance. If you try to steer Xenon in turns/curves at great speed then the tail part tends to sway/slide/drift, which is expected for such size. The Steering response is also pretty good and it's easy to gauge if we are under or over steering. The steering wheel is tilt adjustable according to drivers height and comfort.

Body Control Module placed beneath driver seat. I guess this works in tandem with ABS to control the braking.
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Issues: I have not faced any serious issues with the vehicle so far. However one of the most common and annoying one was the door rattling's. Since I drive Xenon in offroad terrain a lot this issue would crop up every time I was back from the field. Another issue I faced was with the non availability of spare in time. One of the wiper engaging rods had got broken and it took Concorde 3 weeks to source the spare from Pune. Since this issue cropped up in peak monsoon, it was like I was stranded without a vehicle for days.

After Sales Service: The biggest problem with TML so far has been the A.S.S and they need to improve on this to a great extent. I observe there is no serious commitment to customer service even at senior level folks at Concorde. I have had to contact very senior folks and escalate the matter to get things done for my issues.

Coming up next: Accessories installed & planned:

Last edited by Pardus : 11th December 2012 at 12:07. Reason: Refining the content to meet TBHP requirements
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Old 11th December 2012, 00:04   #3
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Default Re: Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience

Accessories installed & planned:

I haven’t added much accessories except for few important ones.

1.Tyre: Changed the Bridgestone HT tyre’s to Michellin AT at Reliance Auto Zone. (Rs.18,000/- after exchange)
2.Seat Covers: Installed Ovion Seat covers. (Rs.17,000/-)
3.Inverter: Installed 600Watt inverter from Tropicool and placed it behind rear seats. This inverter has been a great product to keep my camera, flash and laptop batteries charged all the time in field. (Rs.5,800/-)
4.Bed Liner: The bed liner not only adds good looks but also helps protect scratches and friction sound arising from the items placed in the loadbed. (Rs.10,000/-)
5.Load Bed cover (TONNEAU COVERS): Installed custom built BakFlip Tonneau cover. Getting to have one made was quite a challenge since these type of Tonneau covers are not available in India. Tata Motors provides a fixed model made by Carryboy, however I required one that can be rolled back or folded as per my needs in the field. I contacted couple of manufacturers in US while many rejected citing either there was no market or feasibility due to non-availability of Xenon in US market for dimensions. Finally I managed to interact with the COO and founder of BakLiner who was kind enough to make one specially for me. I provided his engineering team with cad dimensions and photographs of the load bed for them to make one. However the challenge did not end there. I will post more details on this as a separate post.
6.Rubber floor mats
7.Adjustable Ratcheting Cargo Bar: This is very helpful when carrying small stuff in loadbed and helps them stay at one place. (Rs.2500/- including shipping to India)
8. Side Steps from TML. (Rs.10,000/-)

BakFlip Tonneau Cover in closed state. This protects the items in loadbed from dust and water.
Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience-backflip02.jpg

Racheting Cargo bar and BakFlip in open position.
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The following are the remaining accessories that I will add shortly
1.Hella FF75 Driving Lamps (2) to aide in long drives on highways
2.Hella FF75 Fog Lamps (2) positioned slightly side ways to aide better visibility during night drives inside forested area.
3.Thule bar to support the lights.
4.Rear view camera with night vision and LCD screen (5”-7”).
5.Map My India Navigation system.

Emergency Kits to accompany during field trips: (All these items can be placed behind rear seats)

1.Towe Rope
2.Air Pump
3.Jumper Wires and clips
4.Elastic ropes
5.Small tool kit with spanners and screwdrivers
6.Puncture kit

Continued...

Last edited by Pardus : 11th December 2012 at 12:12. Reason: Updating details as per TBHP guidelines
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Old 11th December 2012, 13:39   #4
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Default Re: Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience

Too much of info, let the pictures take over for a while


Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience-atconqueror03.jpg

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Rocks ? No Problem
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Last edited by Pardus : 11th December 2012 at 13:41. Reason: Grammer Correction
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Old 11th December 2012, 13:44   #5
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Default Re: Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience

Thread moved from the Assembly Line (The "Assembly Line" Forum section) to the 4x4 Vehicles Section. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 11th December 2012, 14:07   #6
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Default Re: Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience

Great ownership review and awesome pictures. I love the looks of the Xenon.
I've always wondered why it's not so popular as a lifestyle vehicle. The Thule bar and Hella aux lights will really give your Xenon the butch looks it deserves.
Looking forward to the continuation of your review and ownership experience.
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Old 11th December 2012, 14:23   #7
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Default Re: Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience

Wow, what a lovely review. I think the Xenon meets your needs to a T, except the long length. The separate rear cargo bay + a twin cab is a great boon to have on the wildlife trips you go to.
Few questions: how to you find the turning radius, LWB in jungles? Any alterations to your driving style/paths taken compared to the Gypsy?

Must say that a Xenon, with a slightly raised suspension + nice bull bars + alloys/wheels + hellas is a nice vehicle to drive.

I wish that the length of the Xenon was just about till the rear wheel arch. Would be the ideal size, IMHO.

Again, a great review & thanks for sharing.
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Old 11th December 2012, 14:24   #8
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Excellent review. Loved all the details.
One important accessory - overhead rack to pitch a tent, was very helpful to keep bugs and ants away when in woods.
Happy clicks my friend
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Old 11th December 2012, 14:31   #9
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Wow, what a lovely review. I think the Xenon meets your needs to a T, except the long length. The separate rear cargo bay + a twin cab is a great boon to have on the wildlife trips you go to.
Few questions: how to you find the turning radius, LWB in jungles? Any alterations to your driving style/paths taken compared to the Gypsy?

Must say that a Xenon, with a slightly raised suspension + nice bull bars + alloys/wheels + hellas is a nice vehicle to drive.

I wish that the length of the Xenon was just about till the rear wheel arch. Would be the ideal size, IMHO.

Again, a great review & thanks for sharing.
I have done atleast 5-6 wildlife trips so far in the Xenon and am highly satisfied that it has met my requirements and has made a huge difference compared to Gypsy.

Yes, turning radius is definitely an issue especially in hilly terrain with hair pin bends. However I have managed to overcome this to good extent by doing multi point turns.

You are right with the length, I too wish the load bed was shorter by atleast a feet. Will post some pictures shot in the wild soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayBerry View Post
Excellent review. Loved all the details.
One important accessory - overhead rack to pitch a tent, was very helpful to keep bugs and ants away when in woods.
Happy clicks my friend
How does this configuration look. The tents pitched here are only for illustration and was not actually fixed appropriately.

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The load bed with the tail gate in open position gives you about 6 ft plus length and 4ft width which is good enough for two pax to sleep.

Few more pictures of Xenon from the wild.

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Last edited by moralfibre : 12th December 2012 at 07:07. Reason: Back to back posts. Please use EDIT / Multi-quote feature.
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Old 11th December 2012, 14:48   #10
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Default Re: Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience

Good Review and loved the pics!
A Black Xenon with raised AT tyres, and Rallye lights mounted on a chrome roll cage on the flatbed is sure to turn heads anywhere. After the Sierra, i believe Xenon is the most butch looking SUV on our roads today.
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Old 11th December 2012, 15:02   #11
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Default Re: Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience

Finally a good ownership experience of Xenon on TBhp. Thank you Pardus for such wonderful review.

I was not expecting so many good things about TATA Xenon from a user. I wonder why we do not see more Xenons on roads when it is such a capable vehicle. One question though, how comfortable is driving a xenon with respect to a Gypsy or a Scorpio?
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Old 11th December 2012, 15:25   #12
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Default Re: Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience

Wonderful review, Pradus; good to see the vehicle being used for what it is meant to be.

Great pictures, as well.

5* rated.
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Old 11th December 2012, 15:27   #13
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Default Re: Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
Finally a good ownership experience of Xenon on TBhp. Thank you Pardus for such wonderful review.

I was not expecting so many good things about TATA Xenon from a user. I wonder why we do not see more Xenons on roads when it is such a capable vehicle. One question though, how comfortable is driving a xenon with respect to a Gypsy or a Scorpio?
Lifestyle vehicles are still in a very infancy stage in India. People still look at Pickup trucks as vehicles for commercial and purely load carrying purpose. Not many would like to associate their primary/seconday car with a pickup as the vehicle status is still a big thing in our country. Also to add to this culture we never had any good looking pickups, all we had were Tata TL, 207Di, Mahindra MaXX, Camper, Pickup, etc. I would say Xenon is the first serious lifestyle vehicle even with its basic limited features. TML also has not done anything to market this vehicle in India and has priced it very high.

In terms of driving comfort between Xenon, Scorpio and Gypsy, I would vote in the same order I have put through. I have owned both Xenon and Gypsy and can vouch for it. Gypsy though having leaf springs both in front and back is less bumpier than Scorpio. My co-brother owns a Scorpio and I feel it bounces too much even in the middle row seat. I feel body roll and bumpy ride is the only problem in a Scorpio.

Xenon has power steering, Independent Front Suspension and coupled with long wheel base it is less prone to bumpiness. Also with ABS & EBD it has better braking ability. A good set of tyres plays a big role in good traction for braking.

In the last one year I have seen few Tata TL's being pepped up in Bangalore which clearly shows that people are opening up for a Truck culture. I am confident that we will see better pickups in next few years. I bet if any non India manufacturer launches a pickup it will be an instant success compared to Xenon/Getaway/Genio.
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Old 11th December 2012, 15:28   #14
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Default Re: Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience

Great Review Pardus.
Your Xenon looks perfectly in nature in the above pics.
Thanks for sharing. Keep the thread updated with your experience.
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Old 11th December 2012, 15:54   #15
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Default Re: Tata Xenon XT (EX 4X4) - Ownership Experience

Interesting thread Pardus! It looks like the Xenon has proved the ideal vehicle for your purpose. Congrats on the purchase, and all the very best with the "Bison"! Loved the pics of the Xenon in the wild! Keep them coming please!

Nice positioning of the tent. Seems to be a practical solution. At what points would it be pegged? Does the tailgate have a load rating? You might need to be careful about that.

Cheers,
Rahul

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Originally Posted by Pardus View Post
How do you know I call it "Bison" too ?
Elementary my dear Watson! You mentioned it here:

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Originally Posted by Pardus View Post
...a light weight Mountain Goat (aka Gypsy) driving the more powerful & heavy masculine Bison (aka Xenon) was a trilling experience.

Last edited by voodoochild : 11th December 2012 at 16:23.
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