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Old 17th October 2013, 09:48   #376
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Default re: Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold

Update :

All the time on the phone the Service Centre guys were talking about Control Arm Bushes. What they have actually replaced are the LHS and RHS Rubber Rebound Stopper IFS 2WD.

I spoke to them, they are saying its the same as Control Arm Bush. Whatever.

Also changed was the Oil Filter and 7 Litres Engine Oil. I am thinking of moving to synthetic engine oil somewhere down the line. That did wonders on high revving Honda motors, but is that recommended for the Thar?
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Old 17th October 2013, 10:39   #377
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Default re: Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold

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Originally Posted by manveet View Post
1. All the time on the phone the Service Centre guys were talking about Control Arm Bushes. What they have actually replaced are the LHS and RHS [i][b]Rubber Rebound Stopper IFS 2WD. I spoke to them, they are saying its the same as Control Arm Bush. Whatever. 2. I am thinking of moving to synthetic engine oil somewhere down the line. That did wonders on high revving Honda motors, but is that recommended for the Thar?
Dear Manveet - your point no 1 is so hilarious, let me LOL first! .

That done, this speaks volumes for the "Product Clarity" of dealership personnel. They don't even know the names of parts inspite of part lists being available with them all the time! See the reality on the ground, you are left high and dry at the mercy of such grease monkeys, sad! It's high time you customers did something against this all pervasive nonsense! Frustrati.

What they have replaced is "BUMP STOP". There are four bump stops in the vehicle, two on each side, acting on the control arms. Two are fitted on the chassis (upper) and two are fitted on the control arm (lower) and they act in COMPRESSION in the jounce phase of the suspension (when the wheel moves inside the wheel arch). On the other hand, the "CONTROL ARM BUSHES" locate and hold the control arm in correct position and act in TORSION (twisting movement) when the suspension moves up and down within its design dimensions. Changing four bump stops should not take more than 15 minutes, ramp in to ramp out time. All you will need is a couple of spanners. Wheel alignment check need not be conducted as a result of this activity but it depands on case to case basis. I wonder what labor they charged you and whether this was required at all in the first place (see your old parts, you will know)! On the other hand, changing control arm bushes is a full day job if all special tools are available, including a two post lift. It invloves a "lathewallah" sort of activity also, to physically pull out the old bushes and press new ones. I have seen dealerships heating old bushes with a welding torch to remove them, which is a ridiculous thing to do. Torsion bars need to be reset and wheel alignment needs to be carried out as a part of this activity. Setting Camber and Caster means adjusting shims by using simple trigonometry, but most of the people just don't do it because it takes a lot of time (around 5 hours to do it perfectly). Many people don't know the intricacies of which shim to remove from where and add where to adjust Camber and Caster, so you must be very careful. In any case, the design life of these parts is so high, you need not touch them at all. That's why I am always saying - "do not deviate from specifications".

2. Please do not deviate on engine oil specifications. Do not experiment. You will end up runinig your engine. This is not Honda!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 17th October 2013 at 10:40. Reason: add info
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Old 17th October 2013, 11:35   #378
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Default re: Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post

What they have replaced is "BUMP STOP". There are four bump stops in the vehicle, two on each side, acting on the control arms. Two are fitted on the chassis (upper) and two are fitted on the control arm (lower) and they act in COMPRESSION in the jounce phase of the suspension (when the wheel moves inside the wheel arch).
Well, Bump Stops it shall be called henceforth. For me, the absence of those rubber things meant that the jeep suspension dipped on a particular side while making full U-turns accompanied by the "tak" noise. So now, its on my regular checklist to see if both those rubber pieces are still in place before giving the jeep for service.
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Old 17th October 2013, 11:35   #379
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Default re: Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - see Ssangyong Musso! . Come on now!

.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Nothing great according to the Australians. It seems that Mercedes engineering is being used to promote average vehicles - Ssangyong and now Force motors.

I would love to have the older version of the G-wagen without any frills and gizmos made in India and available at a reasonable cost.
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Old 17th October 2013, 13:27   #380
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Default re: Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold

Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet View Post
Update :

All the time on the phone the Service Centre guys were talking about Control Arm Bushes. What they have actually replaced are the LHS and RHS Rubber Rebound Stopper IFS 2WD.

I spoke to them, they are saying its the same as Control Arm Bush. Whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
That done, this speaks volumes for the "Product Clarity" of dealership personnel. They don't even know the names of parts inspite of part lists being available with them all the time! See the reality on the ground, you are left high and dry at the mercy of such grease monkeys, sad! It's high time you customers did something against this all pervasive nonsense! Frustrati.
This is not all, in the bottom my service report says - Control Arm Bush - Customer Refused.

When I called them about this yesterday saying why is this mentioned in the invoice comments section when I have NOT refused replacing the Control Arm Bush if it is in fact damaged, they said "Sir, ignore that, we will remove from our system, that is same as what we have replaced. By mistake we mentioned it at both places!"

I want to take this up with the Dealership on email (along with a scanned copy of Invoice) marking Mahindra on cc. Any leads on who would be the right person. The person would be Regional Service Manager or some such Designation I think?
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Old 17th October 2013, 14:40   #381
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Default re: Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold

Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet View Post
This is not all, in the bottom my service report says - Control Arm Bush - Customer Refused.

When I called them about this yesterday saying why is this mentioned in the invoice comments section when I have NOT refused replacing the Control Arm Bush if it is in fact damaged, they said "Sir, ignore that, we will remove from our system, that is same as what we have replaced. By mistake we mentioned it at both places!"

I want to take this up with the Dealership on email (along with a scanned copy of Invoice) marking Mahindra on cc. Any leads on who would be the right person. The person would be Regional Service Manager or some such Designation I think?
@manveet, Funny ASC people.

This is not only with M&M ASC, it happened with me at MASC as well, they gave me invoice with different name and Delhi address when me or my car have not seen Delhi in life time.

Email will not help, M&M have appointed a role/person called CCM to handle ASC/dealer related complaints.

Ask the contact details of CCM to your the ASC manager, there he will get the first kick.

Thanks,
Vishal

Last edited by Thar4x4 : 17th October 2013 at 14:41.
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Old 17th October 2013, 16:24   #382
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Default re: Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold

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Originally Posted by Thar4x4 View Post
@manveet, Funny ASC people.

This is not only with M&M ASC, it happened with me at MASC as well, they gave me invoice with different name and Delhi address when me or my car have not seen Delhi in life time.

Email will not help, M&M have appointed a role/person called CCM to handle ASC/dealer related complaints.

Ask the contact details of CCM to your the ASC manager, there he will get the first kick.

Thanks,
Vishal
Ok, so I have now from my network sourced the name and no. of the Area Customer Care Manager for M&M in Delhi. Was not difficult considering that this is what our company specializes in.

Will send the Service People at Koncept Mahindra an email tomorrow with copy to the Area CCM. Lets see what happens.
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Old 17th October 2013, 19:33   #383
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Dhabhar Bhai.
I face five major problems in my new Thar.

Excessive noise from the canopy, as if two pieces of plastic or cellophene are rubbing hard against each other. I guess this comes from the front of the cabin.

A very hard suspension. Even Bolero which had leaf springs in the back was better.

The reverse gear does not engage easily when the vehicle is driven out from its parked position.

The fourth - the tailgate does not open is a minor issue that can be solved locally as is a rattle here a rattle there.

Fifth - there is a rattling sound when the engine is running idle. On depressing the clutch it goes off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet View Post
Update :

All the time on the phone the Service Centre guys were talking about Control Arm Bushes. What they have actually replaced are the LHS and RHS Rubber Rebound Stopper IFS 2WD.

I spoke to them, they are saying its the same as Control Arm Bush. Whatever.

Also changed was the Oil Filter and 7 Litres Engine Oil. I am thinking of moving to synthetic engine oil somewhere down the line. That did wonders on high revving Honda motors, but is that recommended for the Thar?
In my opinion the best engine oil for a modern common rail turbo diesel is Castrol CRB Turbo.

It is much better than the so called recommended Mahindra Maxmile, supposidly made by Indianoil but Indianoil themselves get their engine oils manufactured from Exxon Mobile!
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Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold-dsc_0151.jpg  


Last edited by moralfibre : 21st October 2013 at 10:40. Reason: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD!
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Old 17th October 2013, 19:42   #384
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Dear Manveet, first of all i am new to the forum and greatly inspired by your thread. Had bumped into you in Vasant Kunj Ambience Parking once. I am working on my own thread detailing mods etc undertaken on my Red Thar. I would like to put down a portion of that thread (awaiting clearnce from moderators for public viewing) here relevant to your current problem.

Within a few months or so of owning the Thar, i noticed a peculiar problem which maybe other owners need to note. I noticed that in my Thar (without me having tinkered anything and i had just changed over to the alloys), the front suspension upper arm was resting on its lowest position on both side and had deformed the bump stops (in fact one of them had fallen off). I had read somewhere on this forum about adjustability of torsion bar setup. Basically mine was in the extreme raised position. Because of this, the front suspension was not able to perform any downward motion from the rest position while the vehicle was travelling. I consulted a course-mate who is an expert on all things concerning automobiles and with his guidance was able to correct the torsion bar setting so as to achieve some clearance. This improved the ride quality on wide open roads at high speeds sine the front IFS was now able to do proper up and down movement from rest position. Approx clearance was checked on a showroom Thar. In fact since then i have made it a habit to check this clearance on all Thars that i come across and you will be surprised to note that many Thars, both new and old suffer the same problem. Probably, changing over to the negative offset alloys increases the wheel to wheel distance and hence the length of suspension arm movement, which causes this clearance to reduce. The present clearance on my thar is illustrated in this pic. Earlier, in rest position the arm was completely touching the bump stop.

Dear Desert Fox, I guess you are referring to the 'kich kich' kind of sound coming from the canopy. You should be able to isolate the source by pressing with your palm upwards on the hard part of the canopy (in the front cabin) while driving when you hear the sound. By applying upwards pressure, the sound should stop if the source is indeed the hard roof /canopy. The sound is caused by rubbing of the bottom edge of the hard roof against the metal frame of the body (which runs over the front door, between the A & B-pillar. A possible solution is to open the front portion of the canopy (you have to be careful so as not to break the push on plastic retainers of the canopy which have since been replaced by screws in the latest upgraded Thars) and set the hard portion properly on the frame. Some grease on the bottom edge will also help. Another possible soln is to put some rubber beading between the edge and the frame. This should make the sound go off for most of the time. But remember, the soft top keeps stretching and contracting depending whether it is wet (when parked in rain) or gets heated (when parked in the sun. So some creaks and groans will keep appearing and disappearing.

Desert Fox, regarding your other problem regarding the extremely hard suspension. I think the problem is due to the fact that suspension in a stock vehicle is designed for a maximum load carrying capacity. But most of the times, we will be riding the vehicle with much less loads. So the current setup with six leaves is a compromise between springiness~ plush ride quality and load carrying capacity (max load at which the leaf springs bottom out). So a possible solution which i have implemented in my Thar is to remove the Thrid from bottom leaf. This may not be recommended in the strictest sense, but i personally felt that my vehicle had a more plush ride after the removal.

Regarding, the rattle issue, i hope it is a minor issue caused by something loose somewhere, coz in worst case it could be a GB problem due to improper setting of bearings of the input shaft/ layshaft which causes the rattle at idle speeds. When the clutch is depressed, the input shaft and hence the layshaft get disconnected from the flywheel and hence the rattle stops.

The tail gate is supposed to open/ close smoothly, so get yours checked by ASC or any half decent denter/fitter. There is a trapezoidal wedge guide support below the lock. Closely observe if the wedge drives into the guide evenly (same clearance on top and bottom). If not you may require to set it suitably.

The reverse gear not engaging smoothly sometimes is caused by gears being in a such a rest position (about less than 5% chance) wherein they don't mesh properly. The gear should eventually engage once clutch is again depressed. In case it is happening quite often then maybe something else is wrong.

Behram Sir, just noticed the query was addressed to you, so apologies to have barged in with my views.
Attached Thumbnails
Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold-img2013101600602.jpg  


Last edited by aah78 : 18th October 2013 at 01:05. Reason: Posts merged. Please use QUOTE+ / "" (MULTI-QUOTE) when replying to multiple posts. Thanks!
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Old 19th October 2013, 19:54   #385
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Default re: Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold

Hi Manveet. How is the hard top holding up. Is the leaking issue sorted out? What seemed to be the problem regarding the leak? U have one hell of a beauty. Totally admirable
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Old 19th October 2013, 19:59   #386
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Also regarding Performance Auto can you tell me where i can view their work as i cant find any FB page and their website is also not working. Will be a great help if you have some info regarding the same. Regards.
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Old 19th October 2013, 20:36   #387
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Default re: Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
In my opinion the best engine oil for a modern common rail turbo diesel is Castrol CRB Turbo.
Dear Shahidbhai - Engine oil specification is MIL-L-2104-suffixed by an english alphabet. The oil you mention is MIL-L-2104B which is completely outdated and is banned in India. However, in our great "Mera Bharat Mahaan" the container very conveniently mentions "exceeds" MIL-L-2104B. Please use the grade of engine oil specified for the NEF CRDe engine of Scorpio which is also applicable to Thar CRDe.

The canopy photograph clearly indicates mismatch of the rear of the canopy FRP cover with the front of the targa band. This is bad vendor quality. He is in Pune only, I'll fire the hell out of him, please get it replaced under warranty.

Rattling sound in idling can be clutch hysterisis / transmission gears manufacturing issue. Needs investigation. Please shift into reverse gear with time used >0.8s. You will be surprised! .

Best of luck.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 21st October 2013, 10:20   #388
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Default re: Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold

Sir,
I need a bit more details here, exactly what should I ask them to be replaced ?
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Old 21st October 2013, 16:09   #389
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Default re: Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Shahidbhai - Engine oil specification is MIL-L-2104-suffixed by an english alphabet. The oil you mention is MIL-L-2104B which is completely outdated and is banned in India. However, in our great "Mera Bharat Mahaan" the container very conveniently mentions "exceeds" MIL-L-2104B. Please use the grade of engine oil specified for the NEF CRDe engine of Scorpio which is also applicable to Thar CRDe.

The canopy photograph clearly indicates mismatch of the rear of the canopy FRP cover with the front of the targa band. This is bad vendor quality. He is in Pune only, I'll fire the hell out of him, please get it replaced under warranty.

Rattling sound in idling can be clutch hysterisis / transmission gears manufacturing issue. Needs investigation. Please shift into reverse gear with time used >0.8s. You will be surprised! .

Best of luck.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sir,

As per API classification it is APICF-4 CG and CH and of multigrade 15W40
Is it not sufficient for CRDe engine ?
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Old 21st October 2013, 21:03   #390
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Default re: Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold

The last post was a few hours ago so cannot add to it.
Dhabhar Bhai here are some more pictures of the canopy. What all should I insist on getting replaced please ?
Attached Thumbnails
Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold-dsc_0161.jpg  

Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold-dsc_0154.jpg  

Never thought I'd buy a Mahindra Thar! My Jeep Story. EDIT: Now sold-dsc_0156.jpg  

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