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Old 20th April 2013, 17:49   #1
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Default CJ3B Mix and Match – DIY Learning

Prelude:

‘Once a jeeper, always a jeeper’

This unusual build came my way, when we were attending ‘Gokak Offroad Rally 2012’ in Gokak, Karnataka (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ex...er-2012-a.html (Gokak OTR - 13th & 14th October, 2012)), if you go through my participant’s experience in above thread, you will get to read the name of photographer who accompanied me. She accompanied us in few OTRs and was amazed by Jeep/Gypsy’s ability to go anywhere, camaraderie among offroaders and definitely fun/adventure quotient. While coming back from Gokak, she mentioned her desire to buy a Jeep. I simply overlooked her statement thinking as an impulsive decision/temporary fad which would soon go away. But, I was wrong ! during next few OTRs we had few long discussions and I tried my best to convince her not to go for a Jeep. I tried to convince her to go for a Gypsy with AC and in fact found a very well modded 1.6 Gypsy king, ready for OTR but she was hell bent on buying a Jeep. After few more futile attempts, it was time to search a Jeep. Next question is which Jeep?

1) CJ3B/340 etc
2) MM540/550

MM540 didn’t cut ice as it’s big and bulky, as this Jeep would be used only for recreational purpose, we didn’t want LWB. Once, it was decided that SWB is what we are looking for, next question came what and where. Initially we decided to buy a Jeep from MP and rebuild at Bhopal which has great number of Jeep mechanics with reasonable rates or buy a ready to offroad SWB. Saw few ready to offroad/ unrestored SWBs. One thing I really want to admit – price growth of SWB jeeps in last few years must have beaten price of yellow metal. I came across few online advertisements where people were asking more than 2 lacs for their crappy Jeeps. This led us to find a bare basic jeep which can be build as per our requirements. Also what is the fun of getting Jeep build remotely or buying a readymade Jeep which may not suite your taste. Thus, we narrowed down our search for an unrestored 4x4 Jeep. After intensive search on internet and using PR, we came across an original CJ3B minus hurricane engine. This Jeep was a daily runner and fitted with XDP engine, 3+1 gearbox with transfer case etc. initial pics were promising and it was priced 15% above our expectations (still better as most Jeeps were quoted 70% -200% more than what we thought they are worth for). After few more e-mail and telephonic conversations, we almost confirmed the deal and we asked owner to take his jeep to Bhopal (around 150 kms from his place) and we will come to Bhopal from Poona. We already paid him 5000 rs as token amount and confirmed that if we like his Jeep, we will pay rest of the amount otherwise he can forfeit our token amount.

During one conversation, owner confirmed that he has changed two tyres of Jeep to new NDMS, overhauled gearbox, serviced fuel pump, changed glow plugs, changed all oils, replaced battery, 4x4 is working etc.. it gave me enough confidence and made a mistake of trusting that cheat.

Meeting date finalized and as D-day came close I got extremely busy in office and had to stay back. This led prospective owner to visit Bhopal and closed the deal. Prospective owner had limited knowledge of automobile and especially Jeeps and this made whole thing very tough. I made a detailed check-list which covered almost everything and was on call throughout the deal but you can not check everything over phone . though we didn’t get pure lemon but yes we got rotten orange and this we realized once we received Jeep in Poona, will cover more about this later. False information coupled with blurred communication during visit led us to finally buy the Jeep in impression that whatever told by previous owner is true.

This is what we got after search

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Next step was to complete paperwork. We left Jeep at Bhopal to complete paperwork, one more reason for leaving jeep there was to get it rebuilt at Bhopal not in Poona. As its tough to work on jeeps in Poona comparatively (less experienced mechanics, spare scarcity, and price difference). After 20 days, all paper work were completed, ownership transferred, tax paid, insurance done. In these 20 days heart took over mind and we decided to build jeep in Poona. Our decision was based on few reasoning’s;

1) We will be able to see day to day progress and can make quick decisions on anything
2) We will procure all parts which would give us clear history of everything which went into making this jeep
3) Last and most important – we will learn few more things about this subject called ‘JEEP’. Though I have worked on various jeep projects, but I never worked on ‘end to end’ jeep build
4) We will work by our own (not 100% but yes 60%-70%). Actually it was outcome of above point. I always wanted to work on jeep by myself rather than just overseeing and coordinating everything.

In last week if December 2012, jeep was transported to Poona and it was parked at my house till we start work on it. At that time, I was away in deep Konkan area on exploration trip and then Mahindra Trophy event. I couldn’t get time to even think or even start this Jeep. During this period, I met Rahul (voodochild) and got to know his immense automobile knowledge. He also wanted to work on a Jeep and we both laid out a plan on what needs to be done.

One fine day in February, I tried to start Jeep to drive it for few kilometers and OTRS to estimate what work is required. Initial observations:

1) Jeep didn’t start, worn starter, Rebuild starter.
2) Tyres: No tyres were new, no spare tyre. Owner mentioned that two tyres are new, but we found that two tyres are actually bought second hand from the market and had 10% grip remaining. Remaining two tyres had totally worn out, cracked and were total SCRAP.
Conclusion: all tyres need to be changed
3) Wiring: Wiring was total junk, it had patches everywhere, only headlights and amp meter was working. Ignition switch was getting hot due to problem somewhere in circuit.
Conclusion: brand new wiring has to be made
4) Gearbox and transfer case: transfer case levers were non-functional. Second gear was slipping and gear shifting was not as smooth as it should be
Conclusion: gearbox and transfer case has to be opened and overhauled if required. We were also pondering on option of replacing existing system with 550 gearbox, transfercase, front and rear diffs, etc. but we left it for later
5) Engine and fuel pump: though there were no staring problem and power drop but there was back compression and excessive smoke. We could have simply change rings and could have drive for 15,000-20,000 kms (which might take 4-5 years for owner to drive these many kms). But again, there was no point in doing partial work. Though previous owner confirmed that he had serviced pump, buy there was no sign of it

Conclusion: we decided to dismantle engine and assses condition of every part inside. We also decided to get fuel pump serviced and recalibrated.
6) Body: Body was ok, except few small rust patches, rest everything was manageable.
7) Steering and brake: Brakes were horrible, master cylinder was leaking, brake drums were jammed. Previous owner might have worked on them decades back. Steering feedback so so
Conclusion: we were very clear from the day one that whatever Jeep we will buy, we will install front disk, rear drum with booster. Reason being, it would be driven by a lady who has limited exposure to Jeeps and their unique characteristics, and we can not compromise on safety. It was decided to open steering box as well, service it and refit.

In a nutshell, almost everything either needed to be changed or repaired. We never thought that we will end up doing so much of work. I and Rahul decided to:
1) Overhaul engine and fuel pump
2) Overhaul gearbox and transfer case. We finally made our mind to move to 550’s 4+1 gearbox, front and rear diffs along with brakes etc
3) Body tinkering and final mechanical inspection of everything
4) Painting
5) Seat, hood, wiring and trial run for few days
6) Eliminate niggles and finishing touches

Work is on full swing now and we are expecting to finish this Jeep by mid June. I will be updating this thread on daily basis now.

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh

Last edited by GTO : 21st April 2013 at 12:23. Reason: Adding Paragraph spacing for better readability. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 20th April 2013, 23:33   #2
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Default re: CJ3B Mix and Match – DIY Learning

Hoping to see another wonderful CJ3B rebuild thread.

Can you please share the price at which you got it?
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Old 21st April 2013, 13:26   #3
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Default Re: CJ3B Mix and Match – DIY Learning

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharc_biker View Post
Hoping to see another wonderful CJ3B rebuild thread.
Can you please share the price at which you got it?
now a days we have more thread on Thar's etc.... by seeing these posts i think people are slowly drifting towards Thar for hassle free experience.
I will PM you the price.

Shubhendra
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Old 21st April 2013, 13:44   #4
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Default Re: CJ3B Mix and Match – DIY Learning

After rebuilding starter, I directly drove it to my mechanic’s place where we would work on this jeep. It’s a small garage owned by a gentleman of 45-50 years who worked for Mahindra ASC for more than 20 years before starting his own garage. He has all basic tools for all mechanical work on a jeep, compressor for paint, gas welding for tinkering. Nothing fancy or organized but it was enough for us to start work. Another advantage of selecting his garage was proximity to my place and his down to earth behavior which is very rare in Poona. I have limited technical knowledge of Jeeps and automobiles in general, and I was happy that uncle (we all call him uncle) is ready to go to extra mile to teach me and Rahul.

After few days of hibernation, uncle removed engine other allied parts from chassis.

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It was decided that we would start work on engine from Saturday. I and Rahul were excited..........
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Old 21st April 2013, 22:46   #5
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Default Re: CJ3B Mix and Match – DIY Learning

Shubhendra, I understand this Jeep is being done up in Bhopal. Where is this garage located? Looks somewhere near Indrapuri , BHEL area ?

Spike
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Old 22nd April 2013, 10:49   #6
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Default Re: CJ3B Mix and Match – DIY Learning

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Shubhendra, I understand this Jeep is being done up in Bhopal. Where is this garage located? Looks somewhere near Indrapuri , BHEL area ?

Spike
Arrey nahi Pratheesh, this Jeep is being done up in Poona, wakad.

Shubhendra
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Old 22nd April 2013, 18:48   #7
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Default Re: CJ3B Mix and Match – DIY Learning

Once i am done with my updates, i will bombard my questions. As its a mix n match Jeep, i will be needing advice from all experts for successful build of this Jeep.
My special thanks to UBS sir, Fazal Ji, Arka and Frankenstein for their valuable inputs till now.You will soon see flurry of e-mails from me

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
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Old 22nd April 2013, 23:15   #8
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At first we were planning to put XD3P with intercooler but cost-benefit analysis forced us to think twice. For a person who would use this Jeep sparingly, with no long drives, very few OTRs – it was not making sense to buy a XD3P, overhaul engine and pump etc for extra 10 BHP. The price which we would pay for an end of life engine, could have been utilized in overhauling XDP engine and pump. Overhauling old engine will also give you confidence as its been overhauled by you/infront of you with all genuine spares.

As a result , we went ahead and opened old engine.

Day -1 :
On planned day, I and Rahul reached workshop by 10 AM. Last evening I got confirmation from my mechanic that he would be in by 10. After waiting for 30-40 mins, I called him. But his phone was switched off
At around 11:30 AM his helper came in, we decided to start dismantling the engine, but again there was a glitch, his helper didn’t not have key to drawers where all the tools were kept. We had no other option but to wait for main mech to come. I was frantically kept calling him and after noon finally got connected. And at around 1:30 he finally came. And it was lunch time now 
Soon after lunch we started dismantling engine and by 05:00 PM we dismantled engine. Once dismantled, a list is made by mechanic and which concluded almost everything which an engine has (Piston, ring, sleeves, oil pump, bearings, valves, guides, packings, oil seal, gasket etc). we sent head etc to lathe guy and fuel pump to authorized pump calibration shop. As we had everything dismantled, I took this opportunity to send all pipes, nut bolts, washers, plates etc for plating. We wanted to paint each part of engine separately (as per Mahindra color code) to give it a fresh look. There were few nut bolts which were not fit for reuse and they also bought from Mahindra authorized shop.

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Rahul (Voodochild) helping mech and us
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Mission accomplished - engine dismantled
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It was decided that next Saturday we will assemble engine. By that time we will get all spares, recalibrated and serviced pump, machined head and crank etc.

Shubhendra Singh
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Old 22nd April 2013, 23:20   #9
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Default Re: CJ3B Mix and Match – DIY Learning

I guess your jeep came with a B275 engine, and you are planning to mate it with a BA10 /5 gearbox?? Good luck mate. I'm in the same dilemma. I'm thinking of the NGT 520 Bolero gearbox after installing a used scorpio (kkk04) turbo.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 11:18   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drsamuelk View Post
I guess your jeep came with a B275 engine, and you are planning to mate it with a BA10 /5 gearbox?? Good luck mate. I'm in the same dilemma. I'm thinking of the NGT 520 Bolero gearbox after installing a used scorpio (kkk04) turbo.
Request you to read my thread carefully. This jeep came with XDP and 3+1 4x4 gearbox. Why someone on earth would want to mate old B275 with BA10, NGT 520/530 and that too on a CJ3B ? not me at least.
Or you are talking about DI turbo engine or MDI engine ? Why you want to put a turbo on MDI engine, why dont you buy a DI Turbo engine and mate with NGT520? be aware of length of NGT/BA gearboxes, i have never saw/heard about anyone who could squeeze in this GB into a SWB.
All the best.

Shubhendra
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Old 24th April 2013, 21:10   #11
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Default Re: CJ3B Mix and Match – DIY Learning

Quote:
Originally Posted by drsamuelk View Post
I guess your jeep came with a B275 engine, and you are planning to mate it with a BA10 /5 gearbox?? Good luck mate. I'm in the same dilemma. I'm thinking of the NGT 520 Bolero gearbox after installing a used scorpio (kkk04) turbo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Request you to read my thread carefully. This jeep came with XDP and 3+1 4x4 gearbox. Why someone on earth would want to mate old B275 with BA10, NGT 520/530 and that too on a CJ3B ? not me at least.
Or you are talking about DI turbo engine or MDI engine ? Why you want to put a turbo on MDI engine, why dont you buy a DI Turbo engine and mate with NGT520? be aware of length of NGT/BA gearboxes, i have never saw/heard about anyone who could squeeze in this GB into a SWB.
All the best.

Shubhendra
Shub Ji is damn right about the length of NGT520, There is no way it can fit in a SWB. you can only manage to squeeze in a KMT 90 but i have no idea how you can mate to to the Scorpio Engine you have there.

Please give more details about the engine you have so that experts like Shubendra here can advise you on the GB, is it the Old DI engine which came before 2002 or the CRDE. I hope if its the old DI then there are possibilities of mating a KMT90 4+1 4x4 GB.
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Old 26th April 2013, 12:38   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyjeeperk View Post
Please give more details about the engine you have so that experts like Shubendra here can advise you on the GB.
Sir, i am no way an expert (honestly), seniors like Sudarshan Sir, UBS sir, Arka, DB sir, franky, beboy, Santhosh, Dhanush and many more real gems.
Anyways, as suggested by you if he posts more detail, experts can chip in.

Shubhendra
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Old 28th April 2013, 12:21   #13
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Day -2:
During week, spares were arranged and we (I and Rahul) were looking forward to our weekend session. We reached our mech’s place by 11:00 and after quick tea meeting, we decided to first diesel clean all parts, all exterior parts then should be pressure washed, cleaned with thinner, prime red and then painted.
Few days back I already got all bolts cleaned and polished.
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After few hours of cleaning everything (realized its not easy to be a mechanic), we finally pressure washed everything. And then came painting, but there was a problem. Poona was closed as traders were called for a bandh and we searched places without getting paint, primer and thinner for our work. I didn’t want to push it for another weekend as we were in the middle of cleaned and dismantled engine and our mech didn’t want to go through same exercise again. We bought normal (non automobile) paints and primer. I have no idea whether I did right or wrong but thought something is better than nothing (no paint on engine is better than Jugaad paint)
Engine Parts and painting items procured

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By 03:00 PM, we started cleaning all parts with thinner. By 04:30 PM primer was done. In the meanwhile we got head back from lathe, got it cleaned and pressure washed. I learnt a good lesson on how to paint whereas Rahul was very good at painting. By dusk, everything was painted and ready for fit in.


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Old 28th April 2013, 12:29   #14
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My mech assigned small work package to us to have a speedy assembly, but engine assembly finally completed close to 11:00 PM as we were waiting for fuel pump to arrive, then oil pump was not working as expected which took another an hour to find a new original pump.
But a day well spent and learnt many new things.

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Next is gearbox/transfer case assembly.
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Old 3rd May 2013, 11:43   #15
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Another Saturday came, and we all huddled to open gearbox. Though we were opening this GB but we were not sure whether we would keep this 3+1 GB or move on to 4+1, but I wanted to get this GB checked and overhauled. In any case it can be used for one of my future jeep projects.

While current GB was working fine but we didn’t want to take risk. as usual, once opened we realized that GB need major overhauling. Bearings, second gear, synchro, packing, oil etc required. Initially we decided to complete overhaul in a day but we couldn’t get genuine spares required to complete overhaul and a list was made, parts painted and decision made that mech will complete assembly during weekend.

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Other than tinkering mechanical work is on hold for some time till we get few spares to resume work.

Shubhendra

Last edited by Shubhendra : 3rd May 2013 at 11:44.
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