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Old 17th May 2013, 16:01   #166
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Slightly OT. This is not meant to vindicate Mahindra, but just to give a perspective on why some of us are ready to live with Thar "niggling" issues and say that calling it a "Jeep experience" makes it easy to digest.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ownership.html (Mercedes ML350 CDI : 14 months of ownership)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...tion-rule.html
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Old 17th May 2013, 16:14   #167
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Originally Posted by anda60213 View Post
At a time when all the "experienced jeepers and off roaders" tried every trick in the book to make money from my questions (and they talk of building a community based on common interest when all it is a community for selfish interest), BD was the most distinguished professional giving me sound technical advise and did not charge me any consulting fees.
Hi Anil,

Those are very strong words. Please do drop in for any of the Bangalore or Chennai off-roads, and we will guide you in totality.

When you buy a vehicle from M&M despite shoddy engineering and poor technical explanations its BUSINESS, for M&M, and Ex M&M Employees are your saviour.

Please go through the threads on various mis-givings of the M&M Thar even before it was launched. They were pointed out by various members of the INDIAN off-road community.

If M&M makes money and Ex M&M employee becomes your friend things are all fine despite the fact you lost money to M&M and not the INDIAN off-road community.

But when members from the off-road community "try" to make money, then they are selfish.

Ex M&M employees have to help you because it is Sirji Tussi Great Ho!!!

Have you noticed a trend of Ex M&M employees helping disgruntled Thar owners, and blaming all the vehicles flaws on "production", "management" If they were so convinced, then why couldn't they convince the very company they was designing the vehicle for?

CONVICTION is not "Chalta Hai"

Regards,

Arka
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Old 17th May 2013, 16:23   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anda60213
At a time when all the "experienced jeepers and off roaders" tried every trick in the book to make money from my questions (and they talk of building a community based on common interest when all it is a community for selfish interest), BD was the most distinguished professional giving me sound technical advise and did not charge me any consulting fees.
Hi Anil,

Can you please elaborate how they tried to make money and who asked you for money? I don't know any offroader who would do this.

Last edited by aah78 : 18th May 2013 at 11:13. Reason: Quote fixed.
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Old 17th May 2013, 16:29   #169
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Very interesting to read all the posts regarding this topic . Quite frankly i am surprised that mahindra ,as an organization has deafened itself out from customer complaints! I own a Thar and i am from a village as well. I drive it across open country roads and roads filled with potholes all the time and when time permits i visit the city which is approximatlty 70 kms from my village . I have never been let down by this machine so far as to say as being broken down on the side of highway as such . Now the issue that has bothered me so much till date are the brakes ! Com'on MAHINDRA , its your customer's life you'r all playing with! What would it take for this organization to stand up and announce a recall of all the thars on the road to get the brakes upgraded? By not doing this , we ,as your customers are at risk , other road users are at risk , pedestrians are at risk . I dont really think that they understand the seriousness of this issue ? Is there any way we all team bhpians could send a signed petition to get this issue resolved ? The brakes need to be upgraded free of cost on all the thars. If they never do this , i will never ever buy another mahindra again . My family or other road users need not have to pay the price for your (mahindra ) incompetency !
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Old 17th May 2013, 16:30   #170
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

When paying good money, 7.5 lakhs to 8.5 lakhs why should a customer live with niggling problems ? Let the competition come and then we will see how many Punjab and Delhi customers buy Thars.
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Old 17th May 2013, 21:42   #171
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

i owned a 2001 one model ford ikon 1.6 petrol which was my first second hand car . Never had any issues with the engine or brakes ! The second car i got for myself was a second hand 20 year old mitsubishi magna , once i got the brake shoes replaced and the leaky radiator hosing replaced , i never had issue with this car too . I sold them off and got myself a 125000 km run 2009 model mitsubishi pajero , inspite of all those kilometers done by the first owner i havent seen any pieces fall off or the brakes fail! Now the best part , the only brand new car i got from the showroom floor was our own mahindra thar . God , i have visited the service center at least a 100 times after it was delivered in 2011. From fixing up rattles everywhere to bolting on the softtop ! Seriously mahindra has to clean up their act if the wish to remain competitive ! Again , mahindra please fix the brakes on all the existing thar !

Mod Note: Check point 2 in https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/announcements/49941-expected-posting-etiquette.html
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Old 17th May 2013, 23:33   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet View Post
Slightly OT. This is not meant to vindicate Mahindra
Agreed, It does not vindicate Mahindra nor does it exonerate Mercedez. I can only imagine the extent of pain felt by Merc owners. I had paid only 8 lacs and suffered this experience. One could say that Mahindra lets you off easy with milder pain since you pay less upfront.

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Those are very strong words. Please do drop in for any of the Bangalore or Chennai off-roads, and we will guide you in totality.
I would love to but I have sold of my Thar and hence little chance of me on OTR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
When you buy a vehicle from M&M despite shoddy engineering and poor technical explanations its BUSINESS, for M&M, and Ex M&M Employees are your saviour.

Please go through the threads on various mis-givings of the M&M Thar even before it was launched. They were pointed out by various members of the INDIAN off-road community.
Frankly I had no idea that Mahindra had such a reputation for poor manufacturing. My 1st vehicle was purchased in 1998 and since then I have owned 7 different vehicles spanning across Maruti, Ford, Fiat & Nissan. I never experienced these issues and hence assumed that a company with the brand name of Mahindra will be reliable.

Knowing what I know now, I would never want to buy a Mahindra product (Thar or otherwise) even if there is no other option available. I would rather sacrifice my desire for lifestyle than to waste money on non functioning products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
If M&M makes money and Ex M&M employee becomes your friend things are all fine despite the fact you lost money to M&M and not the INDIAN off-road community.

But when members from the off-road community "try" to make money, then they are selfish.
No. I am not fine when I lose money to Mahindra. I am also not fine when people try to pull wool over my eyes to make money for themselves by unfair means.

My statement is based on experience with meeting few people in Pune. Could it be that I have over generalized.. Maybe so. But here is what I experienced.

When I asked one of these about my alignment issue, I was first told that nothing can be done. Subsequently, I was told to leave the vehicle for 15 days and they will inspect and fix it. Why 15 days? Because they will remove all the suspensions to check the issue. How much will it cost, minimum Rs 15,000 only for checking.

I may not have known about shims but didn't they know better? Or was it that they knew and yet were seeing what they could get out of it?

The ex-employee you refer to was the one who looked at my alignment report, told me what can be done, where it can be done and it cost me Rs 500/- and 1 day and the problem was resolved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Ex M&M employees have to help you because it is Sirji Tussi Great Ho!!!
My appreciation, admiration and respect for this ex employe is based on the sound technical guidance provided to me at a time when someone very obviously was trying to make their profit out of my ignorance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
Originally Posted by anda60213
Hi Anil,

Can you please elaborate how they tried to make money and who asked you for money? I don't know any offroader who would do this.
Tejas, The above is just one example of what I faced. We could have a whole thread by itself for all the other wild suggestions that were thrown at me. But then this thread is about why one will not, or will buy the Thar. Hence I would stick to the topic and be more than happy to engage in a separate discussion on what I faced from this group of individuals.

For those of you who found my statement offensive, I did not mean to offend. Not only did I get exploited by Mahindra but many attempts were made to exploit my ignorance by experienced, knowledgeable & respectable people.

Could it be that not all are like this. Yes. I have made a few select friends from this group and respect & value their friendship.

Could it be that other groups might not do this? Maybe. This groups is my only reference and hence my total experience.

Maybe by meeting others I might encounter different and better experiences. But that seems unlikely now since the Thar is gone and I am put off MM.

Moderator - Have posted another reply with similar content which is still under moderation. Kindly request you to post this and not the other. I realize that my message in the previous reply is not as objective as I would like to keep it and hence have posted this again.
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Old 18th May 2013, 03:24   #173
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
When paying good money, 7.5 lakhs to 8.5 lakhs why should a customer live with niggling problems ? Let the competition come and then we will see how many Punjab and Delhi customers buy Thars.
Yeah, that's exactly where the problem is, desertfox. There isn't any competition for the Thar. Yes, the Thar is badly built with bad components, but no manufacturer other than M&M is interested in making a powerful soft top jeep, especially at this price. Oh, I'm not saying that this price is justified. It's just that everything else is really expensive or really bad. Well, worse.

Build your own Jeep is a great concept, but it requires access to competent workshops, ready cash, and a great deal of patience and perseverance. You have to have the time and effort to hunt for a good base jeep to start with, at the right price, decide on the parts you want, Decide on the form and function you expect it to deliver, and find a capable person who can do this for you, possibly dedicating a good deal of your spare time (and even some 'un-spare' time?) to it. And from what I've seen here, no one gets it right the first time!

While I do admire the fine folks here who put in the time, effort and the involvement to get their Jeep done the way they want (Hats off to you guys!), I don't think anyone could do all that. I'm assuming that there are a great number of people out there who see a nicely done up Jeep and think, "I wish I could have something like that." For the majority of these people, their biggest off-roading experience will be a MGE. That doesn't mean that these people don't enjoy themselves and have fun.
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Old 18th May 2013, 11:01   #174
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Originally Posted by vivekgk View Post
There isn't any competition for the Thar. Yes, the Thar is badly built with bad components, but no manufacturer other than M&M is interested in making a powerful soft top jeep, especially at this price.
Force has launched their Gurkha BS3 and there is news that the BS4 is ready and waiting marketing launch. However, Force is a manufacturer with a smaller footprint than Mahindra. Could there be quality issues? Most definitely to be expected. But then if you hold quality issues as constant between Gurkha & Thar, then the Gurkha packs in a lot more value for money than the Thar. Read the benefits of the Gurkha over the Thar in my post on the Gurkha thread.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3108095 (Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs)

For the Urban lifestyle segment which is being targeted by MM, the Gurkha packs in a lot more punch than the Thar at price differential which is easily justified by the additional benefits and features offered. Even though some might say that the Gurkha looks ugly, it still has tremendous road presence and the ugly front grill can be replaced to suit individual tastes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
3. Need an all rounder and budget is not an issue, intend to do fair share of upgrades suiting individual tastes, in need of single driven personal 4x4 that stands out- buy THAR CRDe
So, within a few months, Thar will have definite competition. Sadly though, there is a possibility that they might compete with each other in quality problems as well.
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Old 18th May 2013, 11:38   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
When paying good money, 7.5 lakhs to 8.5 lakhs why should a customer live with niggling problems ? Let the competition come and then we will see how many Punjab and Delhi customers buy Thars.
Thar is selling because of its classic timeless CJ shape, which potrays "Macho" image similar to the image RE Bullet potrays. Bullet and Jeep are related to the Macho image in parts of Punjab and Delhi.

Thar is a brand new factory made "JEEP" with a scorpio DIESEL engine, thats enough for it to sell in Punjab and Delhi.

It would be interesting to see how Gurkha II and SWB 4WD from Tata can shake up things against Thar, since Gurkha II and Sumo are related to taxi segment.

Atleast in Punjab it has to be a JEEP and nothing else!
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Old 18th May 2013, 13:43   #176
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

In my thinking, one really good measure of which segment a Jeep / Thar owner falls under is:

How often do you lock your hubs & engage the 4WD ?

If the answer to this is 'once a week or more' --these folks ought to build their own Jeep.

Anything less than a month to 3 months, -- go for the Thar DI & customize it [metro city dwellers suffer here because of the BS standards]

Anything greater than 3 months -- these folks need to add 'style' to their lives/ are in need of attention on the road, and are the ideal target segment for the Thar in it's present form. Incidentally they are also the target segment for this .
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Old 18th May 2013, 15:10   #177
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Saw this good looking Thar with Hard Top & Winch @ Calicut.
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Old 18th May 2013, 15:31   #178
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Originally Posted by Skyline GT-R View Post
Saw this good looking Thar with Hard Top & Winch @ Calicut.


What is the capacity of that winch? Is it mounted on the plastic plate?

No disrespect to the owner though.

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Old 18th May 2013, 15:39   #179
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Originally Posted by lugnut View Post
In my thinking, one really good measure of which segment a Jeep / Thar owner falls under is:

How often do you lock your hubs & engage the 4WD ?

If the answer to this is 'once a week or more' --these folks ought to build their own Jeep.

Anything less than a month to 3 months, -- go for the Thar DI & customize it [metro city dwellers suffer here because of the BS standards]

Anything greater than 3 months -- these folks need to add 'style' to their lives/ are in need of attention on the road, and are the ideal target segment for the Thar in it's present form. Incidentally they are also the target segment for this .
Might I add to it one more segment - me and friends of mine are avid fans of the 'Jeep', for multiple reasons, but most probably because we come from an army background and have, in terms, grown up with Jeeps.

We went for any bought the Thar, not because we are 'off roaders', nor because we needed the 'bling'. It was purely for the love of Jeeps.

And the thar replaces our cars as the primary vehicle. Soft roading is something we keep doing. Off roading is optional, and we lock our hubs whenever we get the opportunity. Minus the thar, offroading is a sport we had only seen in pictures. It is only now we realize what it entails and can start participating. I am not sure if the offroaders consider that as a positive or a negative, the Thar surely has aided the offroading community in terms of numbers.

Building a jeep was something we pondered on for a long long time, but with no knowledge and resources to put it together, what are the chances of us being able to build a reliable Jeep that can become our daily ride.
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Old 18th May 2013, 19:01   #180
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Originally Posted by XD2 View Post
...a reliable Jeep that can become our daily ride.
With the problems reported on multiple threads in this forum with Thar, the above statement is key.

Does an off-the-shelf Thar fit the 'reliable Jeep that can become a daily driver' bill at ~8.5 lakhs ?

Is the Manufacturer 'beta' testing the product in open market? In commercial law parlance does it stand 'test of merchantability'?

Most would agree that the Thar is welcome, but the flaws at the price point are unacceptable.
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