Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd June 2013, 14:24   #271
BHPian
 
yamaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Mangalore
Posts: 252
Thanked: 76 Times
Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by codelust View Post
That's an easy one - A Scorpio :-)
I would never call a scorpio as an off roader, But infact a soft roader. With so many electrical glitches witnessed during the OTR's on a scorpio, its best kept in the car porch, waxed and polished.
yamaniac is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2013, 14:33   #272
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 3,059
Thanked: 4,571 Times
Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by yamaniac View Post
My mm540 has better breaks in-spite being 20 years old. Its solid built. Has a terrible body roll, What kind of off road vehicle has Such a terrible body roll? That gives you a feeling that it would topple?
Dear yamaniac - I do not agree to your first statement that the MM540 has better brakes than Thar CRDe. I am saying this with conviction as basic calculations of braking effort v/s deceleration say so. That does not mean that Thar CRDe brakes are good to you as a customer. I have clarified before also and I am clarifying now again that the original proposal had twin pot calipers but they were knocked down to get a saving of 800 rupees per car as the single pot caliper was also meeting the CMVR. When we raised the issue of pedal feel v/s deceleration, we were not even heard, let alone being shot down! This is true and I have no hesitancy in stating so. Serves them right now!

Body roll will be very much in control and the vehicle will be delightful to drive only if all suspension parameters are within drawing specifications. I presume your BIL's vehicle runs on production Bridgestone 235/70R16 tires on steel wheels as rolled out of the plant. One main reason of body roll is disturbance of set value of the torsion bar preload. I am physically seeing this syndrome in around 50% of the vehicles that are on the road. I don't need instrumentation, my eyes are enough! Nowadays I just quietly smile. Please check if your BIL's vehicle is as per drawing specification. This is mentioned in the data provided to all dealers, and it is supposed to be used by them to solve this customer issue. I cannot control the operations at dealerships, there is a process in place, it must deliver the desired result. . You will appreciate why I have put this smiley here!

Dear Codelust - yes, I admit that at this price, I do not find value enough to buy the vehicle. Further, I just don't have that kind of money to spend, so I am patiently waiting. In the next two years or so, a carefully used vehicle should become affordable to me. Then I will buy it and make it exactly the way I want. My vehicle will look like the one in this photograph, half body with the spare wheels (two of them) mounted horizontally in the platform area. Now you know why I did the Thar project. This is the umbilical cord that I am talking about! .

This is the MM540 of my dear friends from Nasik, Bhaskar Patwardhan / Pradeep Mhaskar, from the "Great Desert Himalaya" (GDH) Rally. If I am not mistaken, this is MH-01-212, its a 1989 Mumbai registration vehicle belonging to marketing Worli, having the F4/134 petrol engine + KMT90 transmission + 4WD. There were two more, BLD4776 with Mitsubishi 4G54 petrol engine and transmission in which Farad Bhathena won the first GDH in 1989 and BLD4769 with F4/134 engine driven by Sunil Shanbhag. Alas, all these legacy vehicles are nowhere to be seen. Nobody even thought of preserving them. So much for "Auto Passion"!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Attached Thumbnails
Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!-gdh5.jpg  

Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!-gdh8.jpg  

DHABHAR.BEHRAM is offline   (11) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2013, 17:22   #273
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,548
Thanked: 424 Times
Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Further, I just don't have that kind of money to spend, so I am patiently waiting. In the next two years or so, a carefully used vehicle should become affordable to me. Then I will buy it and make it exactly the way I want.
My dear DB,

Now, Great minds think alike and am glad you are in the queue behind me
headers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd June 2013, 17:24   #274
BHPian
 
Rajith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: bangalore
Posts: 615
Thanked: 390 Times
Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear yamaniac - I am clarifying now again that the original proposal had twin pot calipers but they were knocked down to get a saving of 800 rupees per car as the single pot caliper was also meeting the CMVR. When we raised the issue of pedal feel v/s deceleration, we were not even heard, let alone being shot down! This is true and I have no hesitancy in stating so. Serves them right now!

Behram Dhabhar
Thanks BD sir for giving us a clear answer about breaks.One has to be spend @50000/-rs to get entire break set up changed. Whom ever has taken the above call of putting single caliper and saving 800/Rs in the BOM per vehicle has to be disqualified from working in any industry/business of this universe and to be considered as INSANE.

Last edited by Rajith : 3rd June 2013 at 17:28.
Rajith is offline   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2013, 00:24   #275
BHPian
 
vivekgk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 645
Thanked: 367 Times
Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
Offroad mean machine is meant for OFFROAD and not for cruising! buy a Thar for cruising and turning heads!
Parm, from what I see on the forum, the Thar manages to do well off-road, while being able to turn heads while cruising. You can't say the same thing about a purpose-built off-road MM550. You've proven my original point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
Whats an offroad vehicle got to do with ride?
Again, the Thar manages to be drivable on-road and off-road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
For better NVH levels buy a Range Rover!
That's a rather childish response, isn't it? Not to mention rude and arrogant. If a potential Thar buyer could afford a Range Rover, he wouldn't be a potential Thar buyer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
While offroading one doesnt go at 70kph and dont change lanes!


Obviously. In case it wasn't clear, I was referring to the point Mr BD made before, about trying a lane change in an off-roader.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
Thats a stupid Question for Shahid, he is got a five star rating in offroading segment.
Good to know. So he didn't manage to get the perfect jeep in one go either. I'm guessing it took a lot of time, effort and money to gain that expertise.

I hope you understand what I'm getting at here. The Thar is a more complete vehicle than a purpose built off-roader, for which you would need a good bit of disposable income. Thar is a vehicle that you can buy from a showroom, and pay off in EMIs. It's a better choice for someone who wants a taste of the off-road experience, without having to maintain a whole separate vehicle for regular use. Not many team-bhpians have that kind of a luxury.

I'm not knocking you guys who have built great custom jeeps. I read every single one of the jeep build threads in the 4x4 section. I really wish I had the time and money to build a Jeep Wrangler replica of my own. The title of this thread is "Why I won't buy a Thar". I'm trying to find out who would buy the Thar, and why. Otherwise, it would be a simple Thar bashing thread like the many other Thar threads.

There's one thing that I haven't seen in the 4x4 section. And that is someone trying to build a Thar the way it supposedly should have been. For all this talk about how Mahindra has got it all wrong, you'd think someone would know to do it right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parm View Post
While test driving the Thar, salesman told "Sir this is a 4x4 vehicle, with 4x4 steering and 4x4 Engine"!
Not surprising. With what sales staff are paid at showrooms, it's a wonder they put in the effort to learn as much as they do. My experience was a lot better though. At Trivandrum, the salesperson knew enough to call the Thar a 'lifestyle' vehicle. He made it quite clear that the Thar was about image more than anything else, and agreed that other Mahindra SUVs were much better value.
vivekgk is offline   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2013, 08:08   #276
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,201
Thanked: 821 Times
Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by R32_GTR View Post

An old motorcycle advertisement comes to mind - All I want from M&M is a vehicle where i can just "Fill it, Shut it and Forget it " I don't think this is asking for too much .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
Agree absolutely. No need to hold a spanner if one has resources to get it done. Also DIY isn't everyone's piece of cake ( Sorry for the attitude ).
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekgk View Post
Good to know. So he didn't manage to get the perfect jeep in one go either. I'm guessing it took a lot of time, effort and money to gain that expertise.
I see a lots of brain storming here on this thread , good food for thought too.

But then I see this


Quote:
There's one thing that I haven't seen in the 4x4 section. And that is someone trying to build a Thar the way it supposedly should have been. For all this talk about how Mahindra has got it all wrong, you'd think someone would know to do it right.
Hey, this is too perfect All I can say that, it cant be bought by money, it takes years to develop, not everyone's job. Yet everyone is free to do it .

sudarshan
Sudarshan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2013, 08:48   #277
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Coimbatore / MENA
Posts: 660
Thanked: 946 Times
Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekgk View Post
I'm not knocking you guys who have built great custom jeeps. I read every single one of the jeep build threads in the 4x4 section.

There's one thing that I haven't seen in the 4x4 section. And that is someone trying to build a Thar the way it supposedly should have been. For all this talk about how Mahindra has got it all wrong, you'd think someone would know to do it right.
Don't know exactly where you have been looking.

There are countless ownership threads where owners have tried several options to spruce up the interior, make & import hardtops, Fix floppy highly engineered canopies, lots of trial and error on A/C fitment, etc., etc.

And for the hardcore builders, there is this and others:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...olid-axle.html (Mahindra Thar - *Converted* Independent Front Suspension to Solid Axle)

Please go through these threads and see the myriad of difficulties faced by them. Makes the OP's point of choosing MM5xx as a better build option more sense.

So, other than satisfy posers with the Orijinaal "Jeep" look, whose lineage is suspect anyways with some mention of the dies having coming from Korea rather than the USA, does the Thar really help anyone but M&M?

Real lifestyle users with families have to sacrifice their delicate one's safety to fulfill lifestyle dreams.
Real offroaders have to risk it with suspect build quality and reliability issues to confidently take it offroad alone.

So, Mr. DB is happy, Mr. AM is happy, fanboys are happy, and life goes on.

Cheers.

Last edited by gthang : 4th June 2013 at 08:50. Reason: Typo
gthang is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2013, 11:18   #278
Senior - BHPian
 
DirtyDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dharamsala
Posts: 1,781
Thanked: 694 Times
Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
... so I am patiently waiting. In the next two years or so, a carefully used vehicle should become affordable to me.

If I recall correctly you were waiting for some accursed fool to pay the tax for you....what color do you want me to paint the half-cap?
DirtyDan is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2013, 13:53   #279
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 3,059
Thanked: 4,571 Times
Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
If I recall correctly you were waiting for some accursed fool to pay the tax for you. What color do you want me to paint the half-cap?
Dear Ken - not only the tax, the EMI also! Why are you asking the second question? You want to sell your vehicle? .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
DHABHAR.BEHRAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2013, 07:53   #280
Senior - BHPian
 
DirtyDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dharamsala
Posts: 1,781
Thanked: 694 Times
Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Not selling it right away but I got it as an interim solution. I may build out a MM550/540 or a Thar DI to the way I want it. Or something else may pop up on the market. If so, I may sell my Thar CRDe in about 1.5 years or so.

Problems encountered so far after 5 weeks and 5000km:

Dome light works half-arsed.

One, some, of my brakes stick a bit, going to pull the wheels today and look around.

Low end grunt ain't there and this can be dangerous on the steep hills and switchbacks here. I think maybe the boys who mapped the ECU were flatlanders and just flat screwed this up and didn't test enough..OR..they ran into CMVR restrictions. I can live with it but I don't like it much.

Plus side: handles beautifully and has a great turning radius.
has power to pass

I am up here in the boonies and I am leary about maintaining this Thar CRDe long term. There is no support close by that I trust.

Last edited by DirtyDan : 5th June 2013 at 07:55.
DirtyDan is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2013, 12:06   #281
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 296
Thanked: 163 Times
Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post

Low end grunt ain't there and this can be dangerous on the steep hills and switchbacks here. I think maybe the boys who mapped the ECU were flatlanders and just flat screwed this up and didn't test enough..OR..they ran into CMVR restrictions. I can live with it but I don't like it much.
Just did a trip to Kodaikanal in the Thar, and man did it struggle on some up hills! Is there any way to recalibrate when the turbo kicks in? There were times when the engine just shut off when I had the gas pedal floored and released the clutch on a steep incline. It just did not rev properly. Even if I had the RPMs are 2000, and released the clutch with the pedal stamped to the ground, the engine would just not move the vehicle.
manasm is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2013, 12:26   #282
BHPian
 
jeeva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 600
Thanked: 501 Times
Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by manasm View Post
Just did a trip to Kodaikanal in the Thar, and man did it struggle on some up hills! Is there any way to recalibrate when the turbo kicks in? There were times when the engine just shut off when I had the gas pedal floored and released the clutch on a steep incline. It just did not rev properly. Even if I had the RPMs are 2000, and released the clutch with the pedal stamped to the ground, the engine would just not move the vehicle.
Was your Thar too remapped along with the exhaust re-route, to stop the issue of smoke/diesel fumes/smell from entering the cabin?
jeeva is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2013, 12:35   #283
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 296
Thanked: 163 Times
Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeva View Post
Was your Thar too remapped along with the exhaust re-route, to stop the issue of smoke/diesel fumes/smell from entering the cabin?
I believe it was remapped, but did not change the exhaust since I have a HT and there was no smells in the vehicle.
manasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2013, 12:44   #284
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 53
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manasm View Post

Just did a trip to Kodaikanal in the Thar, and man did it struggle on some up hills! Is there any way to recalibrate when the turbo kicks in? There were times when the engine just shut off when I had the gas pedal floored and released the clutch on a steep incline. It just did not rev properly. Even if I had the RPMs are 2000, and released the clutch with the pedal stamped to the ground, the engine would just not move the vehicle.
This is an issue for the latest thar crde as well.

If there is a steep Tarmac, it's trouble as 4x4 engaged will break things, so cannot use low range.

The only way is to use momentum.

Dear behram, with put going to the super thar that no one will ever see or get, without involving cmvr, can anything be done for existing users ?
pvrajan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2013, 13:23   #285
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,548
Thanked: 424 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvrajan View Post

This is an issue for the latest thar crde as well.

If there is a steep Tarmac, it's trouble as 4x4 engaged will break things, so cannot use low range.

anything be done for existing users ?
4x4 high can be used..it should not matter for 100m or so..


And I doubt the remap having anything to do with power and torque curve characteristic at all..

Last edited by headers : 5th June 2013 at 13:25.
headers is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz - W221 S350 initial ownership review androdev Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 164 9th August 2017 19:50
Car won't start. Guess why? A rat chewed up the fuel line supremeBaleno Technical Stuff 54 18th October 2015 13:54
Wanting to buy a XenonXT, Tata won't let me see one abhi1309 The Indian Car Scene 28 7th October 2010 15:17
Suzuki SX4 or NHC type 1 second hand EDIT: SX4 now booked - EDIT 1 -Swift VDi booked GeekSrik Hatchbacks 126 24th June 2007 12:37


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 11:05.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks