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Old 9th June 2013, 19:13   #331
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There can only do stock remap not custom ones
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Old 9th June 2013, 19:35   #332
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remap for Thar by TDI racing , ... after TDI racing diesel remap ... The power is bumped upto 161bhp ...

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...&type=1&ref=nf
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Old 9th June 2013, 19:42   #333
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remap for Thar by TDI racing , ... after TDI racing diesel remap ... The power is bumped upto 161bhp ...

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...&type=1&ref=nf
161 PS,and 413NM of torque after a remap,that is like almost 50% bump,it looks too good to be true
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Old 9th June 2013, 20:41   #334
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161 PS,and 413NM of torque after a remap,that is like almost 50% bump,it looks too good to be true
Even with the stock setups, power is never an issue with the Thar.

Its the manner in which it delivers the power that makes it unstable and not too friendly for some decent off roads
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Old 10th June 2013, 10:18   #335
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Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
COST REDUCTION - Every organization's single point focus. COST REDUCTION EQUAL QUALITY COMPROMISE / SAFETY COMPROMISE? Is it not a completely wrong way to fulfill targets? M&M should know "whom to listen & how to act". I do have one query though - I read somewhere that Ranjith invested around 50K's to bring his Thar's brakes the way it should have been. [b]How did a saving of 800 bucks for M&M become an expense of 50K's to Ranjith? I hope that I've not offended you in any way. Varun
Dear Varun - nowadays, I am enjoying my work so much that I don't feel offended by anything. I don't even think of feeling offended. You have not offended me in any way, so chill, dude!.

Brake query comment: well, in any situation, cost reduction must never be done at the cost of quality / safety. It is a huge risk with very serious consequences. In limiting cases, it can lead to product failure! In this case, it happened by doing something which affected the stopping ability of the vehicle. As per law, it stopped. As per CUSTOMER, it did not stop. Who is paramount, law or CUSTOMER? I shouldn't be answering this question for this issue for this vehicle. However, in my opinion, "VEHICLE MUST STOP and CUSTOMER MUST FEEL THAT IT IS STOPPING, THE WAY HE WANTS IT TO STOP"! This is not the way to fulfill targets. But then, same story, who to tell and what to tell? No further dicussion, its time some action happened!

Here is a parallel example - Bolero VLX BOM, from which Thar CRDe is derived calls for P215/75R15 tubed tires! I quietly used P235/70R16 tubeless tires! (who uses tubed tires these days, HaHaHa!). Nobody even asked me why I did it. I just did it! If I had used P215/75R15 and then asked for P235/70R16 as a product improvement feature, I would never be allowed! With P215/75R15, customers would have got outer shoulder wear (happens in Bolero), effective life of around 22000 kms only (happens in Bolero), terrible handling characteristics (Bolero is not fast enough for people to feel this) and we would be wasting time, discussing one more rigmorale! So, I did what needed to be done, quietly. I hope you understand the power of PRODUCT CLARITY now! By the way, I had a Bolero VLX. On day one that I got the car, one of the many things I did was that I removed all the nonsense and fitted P235/75R16 tubeless tires with Scorpio wheel rims on it. It ran beautifully thereafter. .

50000 rupees query comment: Rajith spent an insane amount of money because he paid spare parts prices for all the parts that he bought. The money was spent for the parts + labour only, ask him how much time he spent at the dealership, how much frustration he went through, how many part numbers flew through his hands, how many times he called me to ask queries on booster fitment, hose routing, vacuum recovery tank volume to get effective brake pedal strokes when going down a ghat road, please add all the "Anxiety Cost" and you will get an exponentially insane figure! After going through all this, its hats off to you Rajith for your patience, and now you are helping others as well! Tussi Great Ho Ji! .

Dear slalom and akshay4587 - at 413Nm of torque, the transmission will not take it, neither will the axle!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 12th June 2013 at 12:03. Reason: removing extra smiley
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Old 10th June 2013, 11:25   #336
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After going through all this, its hats off to you Rajith for your patience, and now you are helping others as well! Tussi Great Ho Ji! .

Rajith has been awesome for me! If not for him (and the A.S.C introduced to me by him), I would have sold the Thar a week after I bought it.

In fact, my Thar is currently with Rajith, who is doing a 750kms round trip in it just to get the brakes sorted for me! He got the spares delivered to his office and is carrying it all with him. That is the kind of guy he is. Good to know there are people like that around today!

Regards,
Manas
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Old 10th June 2013, 11:46   #337
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post

Nobody even asked me why I did it. I just did it! If I had used P215/75R15 and then asked for P235/70R16 as a product improvement feature, I would never be allowed!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Success of a Product Development Manager is not gauged by whether the product gets released or not, rather by how good the product released is.

Interesting to note that you could push through an upgrade of tyres from 215/75/15 to 235/70/16, which I'm sure costs more than Rs 800/-, but you blame corporate bean counters for the lack of Rs.800 brake caliper upgrade. So, some decisions on what the product should be was made by you as well. I guess having a team makes it easy to push blame and take credit as and when required.

Cheers.
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Old 10th June 2013, 12:01   #338
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
50000 rupees query comment: Rajith spent an insane amount of money because he paid spare parts prices for all the parts that he bought. The money was spent for the parts + labour only, ask him how much time he spent at the dealership, how much frustration he went through, how many part numbers flew through his hands, how many times he called me to ask queries on booster fitment, hose routing, vacuum recovery tank volume to get effective brake pedal strokes when going down a ghat road, please add all the "Anxiety Cost" and you will get an exponentially insane figure! After going through all this, its hats off to you Rajith for your patience, and now you are helping others as well! Tussi Great Ho Ji! .
Sir,

Let me clarify and escape from terming as insane !. I have not done entire break system change with twin pot calipers which will cost @ 50K as per the part list derived from 4wd scorpio crde(2005/2006).

I changed exisiting boosters to Tandem break booster (scorpio CRDe),Vaccum tank of Mhawk,Vaccum hoses of Mhawk and adjusted the LSPV . Done proper vaccum pipe plumbing and moved the Airfilter towards inorder to avoid loading on MC.All excercise costed me @ 17K. Breaks improved by 40% in the first pedal and 100% in the second pedal from current OE set up.

Thanks a Lot to Mr BD and ASC support guys in Mumbai,Bangalore,Hosur and coimbatore. Make sense in saying "saara bharath ek hai"..

Manas vehicle also getting changed as per above set up.50% work in Bangalore and another 50% in coimbatore.

As the ASC guy in Bangalore dont know the LSPV and Vaccum tank set up,Coimbatore guys are fully busy.

Last edited by Rajith : 10th June 2013 at 12:11.
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Old 10th June 2013, 12:16   #339
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Hi folks, started seeing this thread only today after a 11 day holiday in Kashmir.

A lot of manufacturers make 4x4 vehicles with IFS, be it Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Jeep, Isuzu or Daihatshu, Chevvy, Ford.

The Mahindra 4x4 vehicles frequently breaking the tie rods and CV joints is a design fault and poor engineering R & D that remains unresolved till date from Scorpio to now Thar.

And in a 4x4 Scorpio when the transmission is manual, why the hell would anybody install an electronic 4x4 engage / disengage or transfer case shift device ? and lights on side step boards ? Trust Mahindra to do all this.
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Old 10th June 2013, 12:16   #340
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Originally Posted by manasm View Post
Rajith has been awesome for me! If not for him (and the A.S.C introduced to me by him), I would have sold the Thar a week after I bought it. In fact, my Thar is currently with Rajith, who is doing a 750kms round trip in it just to get the brakes sorted for me! He got the spares delivered to his office and is carrying it all with him. That is the kind of guy he is. Good to know there are people like that around today! Regards,
Manas
Dear Manas - thanks for your genuine compliment to Rajith, I completely concur. His level of AUTO PASSION delights me. It was indeed my pleasure catching up with you guys in Bangalore recently. Both of you fulfilled my dream that evening. We waited in the hotel foyer while the valets brough Rajith's and your vehicles, we got approval glances from the chic crowd as we calmly drove off. Nobody was even looking at the dime-a-dozen Mercs / Beemers parked in there. Wow, besides off roading and burning rubber on the road, this was one of my latent desires for making the vehicle! This is what delights me! You and Rajith made my dream come true that day, please accept my humble thanks! Tussi Great Ho Ji, Tohfu Kabool Karo! .

Dear gthang - the prototype had the brake upgrade, it got removed due to cost saving. Fortunately, the tire guy did not realize! Simple! He will see now, it will be interesting to watch the dilution of specifications. Instead, demand for 17" tires now! Its not that difficult! .

I think it is time we forgot the existence of jokers in our lives and moved on!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 11th June 2013, 08:20   #341
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I think its Bosch. Plus the MM engine department
For thar, they never approached bosch. Why? Obviously they will be charged for support. Hence it remains as black box. They follow their own approach at the expense of end users. If they did not wanted to do cost cutting, there would have been thars with ecm controlled ac and not like amby setup.
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Old 11th June 2013, 09:44   #342
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For thar, they never approached bosch. Why? Obviously they will be charged for support. Hence it remains as black box. They follow their own approach at the expense of end users. If they did not wanted to do cost cutting, there would have been thars with ecm controlled ac and not like amby setup.
Dear star_aqua - as Thar CRDe with slightly less reference mass is a Scorpio in disguise and if complete Scorpio program works, meets M1 emission norms for 7 seater with V1 margin, why should company pay the vendor huge amount just for "support"? Vendor needs to understand that he is just supporting another Scorpio, which does not look like a Scorpio, that's all! Besides, "support" program timelines are also ridiculously high. Oh come on now my friend, by the time people fly all over the place and hold meetings, the market will disappear, then no business for anybody, nobody wants that! Therefore, nobody should create a black box. At least for me, nothing is black, it is very simple, there is good business for all, just do it! .

I am not aware of the latest configuration with AC so I will not comment on it.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 11th June 2013, 09:57   #343
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^ Don't the Scorpio and the Thar have very different & dissimilar applications, Sir?
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Old 11th June 2013, 10:12   #344
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Don't the Scorpio and the Thar have very different & dissimilar applications, Sir?
Dear roy_libran - CMVR does not understand applications, it only understands compliance! Good one from you there, I appreciate!

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Old 11th June 2013, 10:27   #345
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

An off roader that needs to produce power on demand - on the tap - made by very poor engineering and R & D at Mahindra should never take the ECM route.

Emission norms will be tough and Mahindra have no development capability to tweak with ECM systems on their own without outside vendor help.

A very viable solution is to improve the Thar DI.

Make it BS IV compatible.
Check and see if a factory fitted AC is possible in this vehicle.
Market a version with better tyres and alloy wheels as an option.
Factory fitted Power Steering, SImilar to Bolero / Scorpio

And with the advent of competition Thar CRD e will see oblivion.

Last edited by desertfox : 11th June 2013 at 10:31.
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