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Old 11th June 2013, 10:58   #346
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

To summarise

If anyone mentions the lack of performance offroad or lack of grunt on steep inclines, the standard answer is "look at EXAMM".

BUT, the vehicle which came there was a prototype. It had a different engine (probably a 2600cc scorpio with custom maps) , differet diff ratios, different tire sizes, and a whole lot of different things Vs what came out in the market

if anyone complains onroad behaviours (lack of Braking, body roll, vague steering at speeds, similar others, then standard response is "look at how we beat a rally prepped Gypsy on road, look at how a Audi could not catch up on a highway (that sounds incredulous, but I let it slide) and lastly at how good you can sleep like a baby in it because of IFS

BUT, the prototype brakes, AC, engine map, effective roll bars (instead of ornamental ones) never made it to the market
Not to mention on how anyone can compare a relately modern 2500 cc CRDI turbo diesel with 1.3/1.6L NA petrol of 20+ years tech. (I wouldnt want to go near a Audi for comparison)

If anyone complains on leaking, rust, rattling, things falling off, bad canopy, how it can fall to pieces while standing still, then its always CMVR, management (lack of) support, not having vision/passion.


if anyone mentions the adoring looks the vehicle got from anyone: then its all warm and fuzzy BD responses.

No answer for any uncomfortable questions. SILENCE is very loud.
Does not want to share how to fix or improve current thar (if his hands are tied by any contract, why not an anonymouse blog on "how to" ? remember fakeIPLplayer blogs ?)

What I admire in BD.
"Persistence/patience", after all these hard questions, he is still here, answering "few" and not answering "many" questions.

I am waiting for the next 4x4 scam/EXAMM & hype

and this time, there should not be any excuses.

oh, wait, I forgot abt CMVR.

Duh.
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Old 11th June 2013, 11:09   #347
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Its only a matter of time. Monsoon is round the corner, maybe already started in the Western Ghats.

Let the next EXAMM event come, on a trail full of slush, mud baths, muddy S bends, bad boulder crossings and hard mud drops.

At least a dozen enthusiasts will take their Thars for the event and just wait for the horror stories that will emerge after that and how an MM550 or Gypsy or CJ3B had outperformed all Thars off road.

And then we are also waiting for stories about the tarmac transport section where if any Thar actually beat a Landcruiser, BMW X5, Fortuner, Range Rover or Pajero on the carriage section
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Old 11th June 2013, 12:42   #348
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Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
Its only a matter of time. Monsoon is round the corner, maybe already started in the Western Ghats.

Let the next EXAMM event come, on a trail full of slush, mud baths, muddy S bends, bad boulder crossings and hard mud drops.

At least a dozen enthusiasts will take their Thars for the event and just wait for the horror stories that will emerge after that and how an MM550 or Gypsy or CJ3B had outperformed all Thars off road.

And then we are also waiting for stories about the tarmac transport section where if any Thar actually beat a Landcruiser, BMW X5, Fortuner, Range Rover or Pajero on the carriage section

Dear desrtfox,
I was not talking abt how Thar will perform in the next examm.

(I secretly hope I be proven in my scepticism)
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Old 11th June 2013, 23:10   #349
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by pvrajan View Post
1. The vehicle which came there was a prototype. It had a different engine (probably a 2600cc scorpio with custom maps), differet diff ratios, different tire sizes, and a whole lot of different things Vs what came out in the market.
Dear pvrajan - I have recently posted that nowadays I don't feel bad about anything happening in my life, so I don't feel bad about your post also! I hope and trust that you will reciprocate. That said, my response to your above statement is:

When one is crazy about Jeeps (as we all are, otherwise we would'nt be here), this is what happens! That Jeep was a personification of what I always wanted in a Jeep. I knew it would never make it past the prototype stage, so what? I had a dream, I realized it, big deal! Nobody except for a handful of TeamBHPians has appreciated my effort in making that one Jeep (Samu San said "it took off", thanks Samu San! Thanks Deepak! Thanks Fazal!). Come on, it's not fair! Don't all of you also try to realize your Jeep dreams? Most of you go wrong all over the place, getting right royally fleeced by garages, will any of those vehicles ever make it to production? So, why pick on me only? So just chill dude, OK? .

If you are in the corporate world, you will know what I am talking about, if you are not, join it, even if you as much as sniff your dream, you've had it, my friend! If you foolishly persist and take it past the stage where they realize that it's out of their depth, they will let you do it but then they will do "Gandhigiri" (non-co-operation), so that they can grab the credit when it comes. Little did they realize that they were trying to take on "Munnabhai". I had "Circuit" (Spike Arrestor) also with me! We were a team! We were more than a match! So, chill again dude, it's better this way! Hahaha!

.

The Great Indian Corporate World has taught me this: We must ignore any jokers in our lives and do what is required to realize our dreams! Goals are dreams with deadlines to meet!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 12th June 2013, 07:35   #350
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
That Jeep was a personification of what I always wanted in a Jeep. I knew it would never make it past the prototype stage, so what? I had a dream, I realized it, big deal![/u]
There is still NO match for what you did, not on any company level or outside & I dont see one in near future. No company is really interested in making a vehicle for us,the so called offroaders, but you made it in reality. I know & understand that any product cant be complete (otherwise there would not have been any mark 2 of any vehicle). But the community must be grateful for your work & then IF at all possible tweak & modify the Thar to the NEXT LEVEL of their wish, well who has stopped the " Builders " ? But People Just "talk" nothing else.

Quote:
Nobody except for a handful of TeamBHPians has appreciated my effort in making that one Jeep .
You forget a Lot of people like me. We appreciate you & are grateful for the platform you gave us.

Quote:
Come on, it's not fair! Don't all of you also try to realize your Jeep dreams? Most of you go wrong all over the place, getting right royally fleeced by garages, will any of those vehicles ever make it to production? So, why pick on me only? So just chill dude, OK? .
Because you listen & response. Frankly, haven't seen any GM of a company treating a common man so equally. Even the garage mechanics have huge egos & they do not let their customers even "Talk"

Carry on Saar, dont be disheartened, you still have a LOT to give to us ( that we possibly are not in a position to understand even) Cheers

Sudarshan
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Old 12th June 2013, 08:43   #351
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
So, why pick on me only? So just chill dude, OK? .
Dear All - While I understand that M&M is belting out a not so good vehicle to us (me too has been debating on putting my hard earned money on something which seems ready to fall apart right after delivery); which company is not?

The problem here is - we do not know the father of the Swift's or the Fortuner's brakes, the Polo's engine, the Superb's gearbox.... the list can go on. In the Thar's case, we know the gentleman and therefore it's easy to vent out our frustration. I think let us let the gentleman be.

PS: in no way do I know Mr. Dhabhar or M&M. Lets try appreciate the fact that even a half baked product has kept many Jeep dreams alive (specially for those who do not have the technical know how and patience but are eager to jump on to the band wagon.

Let the product bashing go on!
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Old 12th June 2013, 08:50   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post

If you are in the corporate world, you will know what I am talking about, if you are not, join it, even if you as much as sniff your dream, you've had it, my friend! If you foolishly persist and take it past the stage where they realize that it's out of their depth, they will let you do it but then they will do "Gandhigiri" (non-co-operation), so that they can grab the credit when it comes. Little did they realize that they were trying to take on "Munnabhai". I had "Circuit" (Spike Arrestor) also with me! We were a team! We were more than a match! So, chill again dude, it's better this way! Hahaha!

.

The Great Indian Corporate World has taught me this: We must ignore any jokers in our lives and do what is required to realize our dreams! Goals are dreams with deadlines to meet!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dear Sir - I honestly salute your passion. Truly amazed.

I am no fan of Mahindra or a likely buyer of Thar - not until a lot changes. However that is immaterial. You did what you could within the constraints you had. Great job! Your success is such that you had gotten the attention of the masses with a vechile made for a niche - and hence the complaints.

I am heartened to see how you reply and help even though you have moved on to other pastures.

What disheartenes me is that M&M has made no meaningful changes yet to make Thar a real lifestyle vechile - they can now given you have given them the proof.

Hope whatever you are working on is something more iconic? Give us a defender or a nice new vechile on the 4*4 sumo platform or even a sierra. Thank you.

About the corporates - i understand !
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Old 12th June 2013, 10:48   #353
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by pvrajan View Post
Dear desrtfox,
I was not talking abt how Thar will perform in the next examm.

(I secretly hope I be proven in my scepticism)

A correction:

the last sentence should be "I secretly hope I be proven WRONG in my scepticism"


Dear Behram,
As per your advice, OK.

Since you are a man of dreams and very keen to realize them, may be you will someday soon have another dream about writing a blog on "how to improve thar" for existing and prospective customers


Ashem Vohu
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Old 12th June 2013, 11:11   #354
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvrajan View Post
...

Since you are a man of dreams and very keen to realize them, may be you will someday soon have another dream about writing a blog on "how to improve thar" for existing and prospective customers
...
He has already given plenty of it in the various Thar threads and people have benefited by incorporating those improvements in their vehicles.
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Old 12th June 2013, 11:43   #355
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
[b][u] So, why pick on me only?
Behram Dhabhar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
There is still NO match for what you did, not on any company level or outside & I dont see one in near future.
But People Just "talk" nothing else.

Because you listen & response. Frankly, haven't seen any GM of a company treating a common man so equally.

Carry on Saar, dont be disheartened, you still have a LOT to give to us ( that we possibly are not in a position to understand even) Cheers

Sudarshan
Sir,

We pick on you because you are available and keen to answer all our queries. I must say it is not 'picking', it 'dependence' on you.

As Sudarshan mentioned, please carry on and don't be disheartened by our rants. Also, believe me most of us are unhappy with M&M only. For you, there is a lot of respect.
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Old 12th June 2013, 12:58   #356
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post
But the community must be grateful for your work & then IF at all possible tweak & modify the Thar to the NEXT LEVEL of their wish, well who has stopped the " Builders " ? But People Just "talk" nothing else.
What community Sudarshan jee? What next level?

Car companies want $$$ out of any venture. How would they benefit if only small section of people would buy this entirely customised vehicle?

Do the simple math Lets start with this > TBHP is 1.5 lakh strong (and growing), 10% are offroaders (my assumption), thats 15k folks, 30% have issues with the THAR, leaves us with little over 10k folks, 50% will buy now-next 6 months, for other 50%, Jeep is a dream vehicle.

So M&M sells 5k Thar to this section of folks in one month, what about the rest of months in a calendar year?

Solution? Make a vehicle that appeals to the masses. The company has steady income, the vendors are happy, customers happy that vehicle spare part is available, everybody wins.

Who looses? (notional loss), you and me. We are small miniscule folks who wants vehicle to be a JEEP in every sense. TBHP helps us in nursing this thought tho' I am thankful for that part.

Individual efforts are hardly recognised in the auto manufacturing field, The success are attributed to "team work", the failures are attributed as individuals "thought process fault". Unfortunately in auto manufacturer's board rooms, outward 'looks' scores over functionality.

I sometimes wonder whether Dhabar Behram was actually hounded by M&M to have created Thar. Now M&M is sorely unable to manage the monster in very absence of its creator. Usually next level is brought about by its creator, not by some board room junkie.

Andy

PS: Dhabar jee, please don't be offended.
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Old 12th June 2013, 13:22   #357
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by Grace View Post

So M&M sells 5k Thar to this section of folks in one month, what about the rest of months in a calendar year?

Solution? Make a vehicle that appeals to the masses. The company has steady income, the vendors are happy, customers happy that vehicle spare part is available, everybody wins.

Just got back from goa where Thars were very very noticeable. Some with fat tyres and mods and some with folks just enjoying the rains.

In my opinion, "Jo Dikhta Hai Woh Bikta Hai". It may not be the "ultimate offroader" or even a 4x4x4 eov but it definitely fits the notion of "jeep" for a large segment of people who are not present on the forum. They care about Lonavala in the rains and not EXAMM in the rains.

For those on the forum it can always be a base platform for DIY if you have the Vitamin M and time and inclination.

For everything else there is always a CJ or a 550 and a relationship with your mechanic which is closer than family ties.

Last edited by genesis : 12th June 2013 at 13:50.
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Old 12th June 2013, 13:24   #358
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

To a great extent it is true. When tie rod and CV joint problems were present in Scorpio 4x4 and it was failing off road why did they use the same system in Thar CRD e, why was no R & D done ? Whose fault is it ? Who provided the off road test results ?
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Old 12th June 2013, 13:52   #359
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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For those on the forum it can always be a base platform for DIY if you have the Vitamin M and time and inclination.

For everything else there is always a or a 550 and a relationship with your mechanic which is closer than family ties.
Shoumo, Cannot agree more on this.

Must point out that Goa was always the fancy place for a Jeep market against the plains of UP and MP, sands of Rajasthan and hilly terrain of Coorg,Sakleshpur and Kerala demanded functionality.

Andy
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Old 12th June 2013, 17:51   #360
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
I had a dream, I realized it, big deal!Nobody except for a handful of TeamBHPians has appreciated my effort in making that one Jeep (Samu San said "it took off", thanks Samu San! Thanks Deepak! Thanks Fazal!).
Come on, it's not fair!
BD Sir, count me in as well;
Everybody wants to make a jeep for themselves, and everybody wants a Jeep like yours

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Don't all of you also try to realize your Jeep dreams? Most of you go wrong all over the place, getting right royally fleeced by garages, will any of those vehicles ever make it to production?
That's what I think people are upset about, you could realize your dreams and make it a reality and they can't!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
So, why pick on me only?
Because you answer everyone patiently, because you are readily available for people. As Sudarshan has already mentioned, I totally agree with him.

Wonder where I can find the Hyundai Official, who was responsible for creation of the i10

While all this may go on, there are many others like me who are very happy and thankful to you for making many a dream come true! And this includes non T-BHPians as well, those who don't know the story, but have owned a Jeep in the past and now marvel at the more superior Thar!

And it is indeed selling!
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