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Old 22nd June 2013, 19:17   #421
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Fazal Bhai, I have a MM 550 NGCS 2004. The ride with its thick leaf springs is like riding a bucking horse. After reading iMASKARAN's experience I am thinking of going in for a change. I have an ISUZU 4JB1TC iC 2800cc engine installed. Its weight is about 80 kg heavier than the XD3P. So even the front suspension is on the stiff side. Any suggestions for improving that also would be welcome. Please PM me the price for the rear leaf springs set.
Regards,

Last edited by Rehaan : 25th June 2013 at 16:09. Reason: Post edited. Please remember to *always* add spaces after punctuation marks. Thanks.
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Old 22nd June 2013, 21:37   #422
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Almost decided to buy the Thar and visited India Garage, Mysore. The sales executives were not interested in selling the Thar and were asking me to consider other vehicles from Mahindra!
When I asked about the availability of the Thar, they vaguely answered "Cannot say exactly sir. We are not getting stocks properly. It will probably take more than 6 months or even 8 months".

Is the waiting period really more than six months elsewhere?
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Old 23rd June 2013, 07:04   #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Further, I need you to understand one thing on the leaf springs. The Thar CRDe leaf springs and rear shock absorbers are of Bolero VLX. These are production parts, the springs are made in Baroda. These are made in huge quantity, with all quality assurance processes in place. We have not done any change for Thar. Even the silent block bushes are same, fitted in the same position as Bolero VLX.
Guess it IS a design shortcut - The suspension needs to be optimized for the THAR CRDe as it is NOT a BOLERO VLX - Sirjee, both vehicles have different weights as well as weight distribution. It is appalling that you could say what you said!!

Quote:
I can't help but add (as usual) - MH01V521 did not have production springs! It had springs of another model vehicle which is also in production. Don't even try to interchange, chassis mounting point is different, those springs will not fit in production vehicle. That chassis was custom made. Handling was optimized for the tires used. I had touched 165 kmph, it was a torpedo, dead stable.
Guess this V521 stuff has to stop. It was not a regular production vehicle anyway and did not pass the CMVR, so whats the point of reference!

If the perch points are different, then the chassis dynamics ARE different. Why did you NOT bring THAT settings into the production THAR?

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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
The first time I had to hit the brakes hard in my Thar at 90kph I was appalled at what the backend was doing, rocking from side to side very fast and threatening to take the front end with it. This was on a moderate down slope on a relatively smooth road. Only old age and slow reflexes stopped me from over steering to correct. I just put the ole death grip on the wheel and let my massive arms, bigger than Arka's and much better looking, act as steering dampers.

Another victim of "Production Variability" ????
Ken, Apologies, just cant stop laughing out LOUD!!
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Old 23rd June 2013, 10:03   #424
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Agree with headers here, DB Sir.

The V521 is a myth. Let it remain so. It has come to point of making us tired.
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Old 23rd June 2013, 10:26   #425
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If the Thar was indeed meant to be an open canvas on which innumerable modifications could be carried out based on individual tastes, the on-road price ought to have been Rs. 5 Lakhs and not Rs. 8.5 Lakhs.
Especially considering that the development costs of all aggregates have been amortized across various models, the current pricing is nothing short of day-light robbery.
This is based on my personal experience on expenditure and it sure HURTS!
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Old 23rd June 2013, 10:52   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Guess it IS a design shortcut - The suspension needs to be optimized for the THAR CRDe as it is NOT a BOLERO VLX - Sirjee, both vehicles have different weights as well as weight distribution. It is appalling that you could say what you said!!



Guess this V521 stuff has to stop. It was not a regular production vehicle anyway and did not pass the CMVR, so whats the point of reference!

If the perch points are different, then the chassis dynamics ARE different. Why did you NOT bring THAT settings into the production THAR?



Ken, Apologies, just cant stop laughing out LOUD!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
The first time I had to hit the brakes hard in my Thar at 90kph I was appalled at what the backend was doing, rocking from side to side very fast and threatening to take the front end with it. This was on a moderate down slope on a relatively smooth road. Only old age and slow reflexes stopped me from over steering to correct. I just put the ole death grip on the wheel and let my massive arms, bigger than Arka's and much better looking, act as steering dampers.

Another victim of "Production Variability" ????

I am tempted to quote Shakira…..in Hips don’t Lie.

I'm on tonight, my hips don't lie
And I'm starting to feel you boy
Come on let's go, real slow
Baby, like this is perfecto

Oh, you know I'm on tonight and my hips don't lie
And I'm starting to feel it's right
The attraction, the tension
Baby, like this is perfection

No fighting
No fighting

To answer BD Sir's question- NO my OE Leaf Springs have long gone and I would have no way to retrieve them. So no way can I have it replaced under warranty or tested for Production Variability.

On another note, the Dreamliners commissioned by Air India had defects. They were withdrawn after being on flight for some time (THE DOORS OF THE AIRCRAFT WERE NOT SHUTTING PROPERLY. BEAT THAT!!!) and Boeing had to work and address the problem. They were again commissioned back some time ago, and had the opportunity to fly in one of them. I did scarily look at the doors once or twice before takeoff, but once it took off I sat back and enjoyed the flight. It was a pleasure.

I guess if Boeing can Mahindra also can extend a bit of pleasure to customers. Is that a big ask?
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Old 23rd June 2013, 11:39   #427
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Originally Posted by cpbopanna View Post
If the Thar was indeed meant to be an open canvas on which innumerable modifications could be carried out based on individual tastes, the on-road price ought to have been Rs. 5 Lakhs and not Rs. 8.5 Lakhs.
Especially considering that the development costs of all aggregates have been amortized across various models, the current pricing is nothing short of day-light robbery.
This is based on my personal experience on expenditure and it sure HURTS!
I have been harping on a On road price of 5L even before the THAR was born -

Unfortunately, Money has different meaning for different people.
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Old 23rd June 2013, 12:52   #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear iMASKARAN - reference your quote, we knew this when we did this vehicle. This platform "spawns" this business, because this vehicle appeals more to people who derive satisfaction in tinkering with it even when there is nothing wrong with it. Unfortunately, many people, including people in this thread, just do not want to understand and appreciate it. So, thank you for putting it across nicely.


At an accessory shop any day, you will find people coming with cars, new old, all segments, including absolutely high end ones. Some straight off the dealership, the insides still smell of Factory. I have seen people, a Chevvy Cruize, undergo changes, OE headlights/taillights/Front and rear grill being swapped for smoked/angel eyes and what not and what not the bill footed to about 60 K plus. And the GDP of China increases every day with this contribution.

Each customer wants an individual identity on the car. Some drive it stock, because they feel it is right that way. In Shankar Place Market in Delhi, every day, Gypsies, Boleros, Sumos, Ambassadors belonging to Govt and services are stripped, re upholstered, gaarish fixtures fitted. I have seen Boleros and Gypsies being fitted with Dual AC's etc. I have even seen one Bolero and its driver coming with a request" Saab ko middle row mein saar rakhne ka problem hota hai. Saar ko bahut phiche jaana parta hai. Kuch aisa kijiye headrest mein ta ki saab so Saar jada piche na le jaana pare."

So there is a demand from the customer and this spawns this industry. Tinkering and accessorization are a world wide phenomenon otherwise likes of ARBs, Ironman, Rugged Ridge, Smitty Bilts etc etcs would have shut shop long ago. Browse the net and you will find Jeep Wranglers/Samurai's changed beyond recognition. People have changed Purza Purza of what the company had provided in the Original Vehicle.


I will give you another practical problem. Please be rest assured I am not blaming you as the Father/Creator of the Thar for this. The Company fitted AC in the Thar is a 10 on 10 especially with the Hardtop and proper insulation. It Chills you to your bones in few minutes. However, every time a Truck/Bus belches Smoke infront of you, every time a garbage truck or stinky areas you cross, the fumes percolate in the cabin, inspite of the Hardtop and all possible insulation in place. Now how do I sort this?

Last edited by iMASKARAN : 23rd June 2013 at 13:01.
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Old 23rd June 2013, 12:59   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "iMASKAKRAN

I guess if Boeing can Mahindra also can extend a bit of pleasure to customers. Is that a big ask?
It reminds me of an old saying 'if wishes were horses, beggars would fly'

In the present context, if Mahindra was Boeing, Jeeps would fly!

I guess the attitude in the two companies is as different as chalk and cheese!

Last edited by cpbopanna : 23rd June 2013 at 13:05.
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Old 23rd June 2013, 13:10   #430
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Originally Posted by cpbopanna View Post
It reminds me of an old saying 'if wishes were horses, beggars would fly'

In the present context, if Mahindra was Boeing, Jeeps would fly!

I guess the attitude in the two companies are as different as chalk and cheese!
What even surprises me cpbopanna is why does BD Sir come up again and again to defend the Thar when he is over and done with the Company. Yes the product was his passion and any father/mother is proud of their offsprings. Even if they are Step.

Why doesnt someone from the present Mahindra Thar Team address the issues pointed out in this extremely volatile thread were Thar bashing is breakfast, lunch, dinner and supper everyday. Are they complacent? Are the Sales people in Mahindra celebrating because it rains Thars every day in some corner of India?
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Old 23rd June 2013, 13:18   #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iMASKARAN View Post

Why doesnt someone from the present Mahindra Thar Team address the issues pointed out in this extremely volatile thread were Thar bashing is breakfast, lunch, dinner and supper everyday. Are they complacent? Are the Sales people in Mahindra celebrating because it rains Thars every day in some corner of India?
We just saw a couple of pages above that India Garage Mysore is talking about a 6 to 8 month wait for the Thar.

With this kind of artificial scarcity created, why would any body want to disturb the golden goose?
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Old 23rd June 2013, 13:43   #432
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

BD's child for sure , there were only a handful of offroaders and wannabe jeepers in India and the tribe is all set to increase with the advent of the " Thar " , and I guess BD is elated by this .

BD Sir I love the stance of the "521" and sure it was menacing ,I know you want everyone to make their Thars into "521" ,but it's going to cost a bomb .

The Thar guys in MM is closely watching this thread ,and they are working on it .

The "Mahindra Adventure Off-Road Training Academy" , the Great escapes all are brand building exercises and "Thar which hates tar" which is the center of attraction cannot sell in its present form in the coming days . An engine confirming to BS-5 is inevitable and some of the shortcomings are sure to be addressed .

Keeping my fingers crossed .
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Old 23rd June 2013, 17:32   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iMASKARAN View Post

Why doesnt someone from the present Mahindra Thar Team address the issues pointed out in this extremely volatile thread were Thar bashing is breakfast, lunch, dinner and supper everyday. Are they complacent? Are the Sales people in Mahindra celebrating because it rains Thars every day in some corner of India?
If you sell more than you produce, will you even bother about an insignificant audience / potential customer base ?

The THAR was never expected to sell the volumes that it sells today and hence it IS an overwhelming success story for M&M.

Last edited by headers : 23rd June 2013 at 17:43.
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Old 23rd June 2013, 20:00   #434
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iMASKARAN View Post
Why doesnt someone from the present Mahindra Thar Team address the issues pointed out in this extremely volatile thread were Thar bashing is breakfast, lunch, dinner and supper everyday. Are they complacent? Are the Sales people in Mahindra celebrating because it rains Thars every day in some corner of India?
Check out what BD sir said a few posts back - the Thar shares the assembly line with Bolero, the highest selling Mahindra vehicle. So they are selling the Thar reluctantly. I am sure Thar would not even feature in their internal presentation during their quarterly or whatever sales meetings!!
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Old 24th June 2013, 11:32   #435
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My question to those who do not want to buy Thar.....what would you buy? Not build but buy? Make VFM vs performance comparisons and not include mythicalyetobeintroducedandpriced beasts.
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