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Old 27th June 2013, 13:58   #466
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Ok let me put my 2 cents here.

I have been Thar owner from last 7 months too. That being a second vehicle, so has covered 4k km. till now have faced 1 issue right after purchase was grabby brakes and that was sorted out by NBS Mumbai. Apart from that have not faced any issue as such.

Everything is stock except added simple CD Player with 2 speakers. The speaker box sits peacefully in rear area and can be removed when ever I want. Added a charging point. I know it has been mentioned in other discussion that it can put additional load on alternator, however it is must if one asks me.

Apart from this, nothing is touched, not even tyres. I do have plan to do following

1. Tyres probably Yoko MT+
2. Do some additional cushioning on seats to improve neck support.

The fuel efficiency in Mumbai traffic is 9 kmpl.

I have been in touch with DB sir during purchase and after purchase. He suggested me to keep vehicle stock as far as possible and bingo it is niggle free. Sometimes it is just parked for weeks and then I start, it runs trouble free.

About brakes , I did check with Mahindra, they confirmed it was issue with initial lot and later lots they changed it, hence no upgrade required. I am yet to confirm this, however keep max speed till 80 and everything is under control. If you need a quicker one, look else where.

BD sir, my Fiesta tuning box is now available and sent for reprogramming for CRDe 2.5 to RD. I am planning to do the first mod. Then move to rubber.

As such there is no complaint on pick up or drivability that I have. Tuning box will make it little more drivable, that's it.

One has to learn to live with Jeep like vehicle and Those who bought one can learn to live the jeep way rather than make the jeep live your own way.

Others who are skeptical to buy for xyz reasons, it's good that you know why you won't buy one. It's upto individual to decide what one wants and without what one can live. It's certainly easier to leave with jeeps provided you set the correct expectations.

I also must thank Nitin who was the first to give me ride and TD in his Thar. Where are you these days man. I need to make the tiger taste blood. It's rains, lets plan it.

Last edited by Firebird : 27th June 2013 at 14:07.
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Old 27th June 2013, 14:11   #467
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Why there is nothing left to say ?
What about CV joints and tie rods breaking ?
Low breaking power ?
Poor air flow and terrible airconditioning ?
Terrible seats ?
Gear boot tearing off ?
Tail gate rattling ?
Gaps between the front doors and rubber sealing ?
Unfit for off road H/T tyres ?
Wires dangling under the dashboard ?

Who is going to answer all this ?
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Old 27th June 2013, 14:25   #468
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
Why there is nothing left to say ?
What about CV joints and tie rods breaking ?
Low breaking power ?
Poor air flow and terrible airconditioning ?
Terrible seats ?
Gear boot tearing off ?
Tail gate rattling ?
Gaps between the front doors and rubber sealing ?
Unfit for off road H/T tyres ?
Wires dangling under the dashboard ?

Who is going to answer all this ?
Hey DesertFox,

I previously owned MM540 4x4 98 model. Sold it sometime back - Indeed it was awesome vehicle and now is owned by one of my friend.

Bought Thar CRDe 4x4 Jan 2013. 6 months into driving and have covered close to 8000km, been to couple of offroading events too and OTR's.

This Thar is being used almost everyday 50+kms in Bangalore.
I am pretty satisfied with the vehicle.

Low breaking power ? Agree
Poor air flow and terrible airconditioning ? Air flow will have Snorkel setup soon. Coming to Air conditioning, it works just fine and sometimes it chills too. Been to Goa and Chennai and AC was pretty good.

Terrible seats ? Stock front seats are pretty decent. I am 6ft tall and weigh 90+ Kilos. I find the front seats decent enough for me. Agree the rear seats are PATHETIC.

Gear boot tearing off ?
Tail gate rattling ?

Didn't have any such issues so far. Not sure about future though.

Gaps between the front doors and rubber sealing ? AGREE

Unfit for off road H/T tyres ? I had upgraded to Yoko AT's soon out of showroom, which is much better than the stock HT's.

Wires dangling under the dashboard ? NOT IN MY THAR
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Old 27th June 2013, 14:38   #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
Why there is nothing left to say ?
What about CV joints and tie rods breaking ?
Low breaking power ?
Poor air flow and terrible airconditioning ?
Terrible seats ?
Gear boot tearing off ?
Tail gate rattling ?
Gaps between the front doors and rubber sealing ?
Unfit for off road H/T tyres ?
Wires dangling under the dashboard ?

Who is going to answer all this ?
Braking - low is a subjective. Cannot comment. I find it adequate rather good. Keep in mind wheels locking will happen as its non ABS

AC - is good. Chiller. Plus I like the variable knob which help in setting up cooling and compressor cuts off after that much cooling. This is not like the heater in sedans. Heater knob is separate.

Air flow - yes some extent. But keep middle to directing to rear and 2 at the end at occupant in front. You have a cooled cabin.

Seat - I have issue with neck support only. But that's with all which doesn't have active headrest. I am working on plan to make it better.

Gear box - no issue. Had a little hard 5th and reverse. Sorted out in last service. It smooth now

Rattle from tail gate - no

Gap - can see those little

HT tyres - needs a change. I will not call this as issue.

Wiring loose - no

Water leakage - no
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Old 27th June 2013, 14:40   #470
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Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
Say in a 15 year old Japanese specification Mercedese 190 E where half the gas has leaked or a 30 year ols Mazda 323 of a rural Omani.
Can't. Stop. Laughing. Genius Sir, a very commendable hit indeed! Haha!

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So the final diagnosis is that Thar is a failure in serious off roading.

MM550 till a Jeep Wrangler is launched and it is a real Jeep.
I was at a Mahindra showroom the other day. Sad as it is, the salesman abysmally put the Thar down and kept pushing me to buy a Scorpio instead. Not because of the problems or whatever, but because he wasn't the salesman for the Thar; his territory was the Scorpio! It annoys me to the core when there's competition within a showroom between salesman. Pathetic. I wouldn't buy the Scorpio just because of this salesman. Got a bit off topic there.

The Thar price list that I have now quotes a humongous 8.5 L on road for the damn thing. And after reading your experience, I'd go for an ol' faithful rusty warhorse rather than put my money on a glittery glass shoe.

I really enjoyed reading this thread. Excellent humor in there. Thanks.
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Old 27th June 2013, 18:33   #471
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Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
Why there is nothing left to say? What about CV joints and tie rods breaking? Low breaking power? Poor air flow and terrible airconditioning? Terrible seats? Gear boot tearing off? Tail gate rattling? Gaps between the front doors and rubber sealing? Unfit for off road H/T tyres? Wires dangling under the dashboard? Who is going to answer all this?
Dear Shahidji - although there is nothing left for me to say, just to close this interaction properly, I refer to your post number 395 on page number 27 of this thread. You have mentioned your inability to ask the above quoted questions to the company due to various reasons as you have explained, I understand that everybody is busy, don't worry, most of the questions are being answered by relatively dormant TeamBHPians now. You will appreciate that these are positive indicators. So, I suggest please enjoy off-roading in your MM540 and your Bolero, and just chill, dude! .

Dear Firebird, Kicksperliter and Nitin - Nitin, I know that the canopy shall not leak, I have used common sense to ensure that it is made that way, you have said so now, so thanks. I wanted to do a double lining at the bottom of the tailgate location but I guess I ran out of time, I'll guide you on how to do it. This will reduce internal NVH to a good extent.

I don't work for the company any more, so what? I have put my blood, sweat, tears, heart and soul into this vehicle, I am just not going to let anybody walk over it, and that means anybody (the company is also included)! Your posts confirm your confidence in the operational capability of this vehicle.

Thar is not alone. There are other M&M vehicles also. Obviously, all work was done by CFTs (Cross Functional Teams), yours truly being a humble member in each of them! I will be delighted to mention their names, but then we would need new threads for each one of them. .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by moralfibre : 28th June 2013 at 12:32. Reason: Only two smileys per post please.
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Old 28th June 2013, 15:11   #472
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Firebird, Kicksperliter and Nitin - Nitin, I know that the canopy shall not leak, I have used common sense to ensure that it is made that way, you have said so now, so thanks. I wanted to do a double lining at the bottom of the tailgate location but I guess I ran out of time, I'll guide you on how to do it. This will reduce internal NVH to a good extent.
Thanks Mr Behram..That would probably take care of the dust/ rain water that gets blown in through the rear flap and make the canopy almost totally dust and water proof.
I was thinking of putting additional velcro at the bottom of the rear flap and maybe join it with the top portion of the tailgate. Not sure how intelligent that solution would be but if you could share your idea it would be great.
I can PM/ call you if it needs a more detailed explanation.
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Old 28th June 2013, 20:43   #473
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In my 9 months & 7500 km old Thar-Crde, other than poor braking (though I managed with double tapping brake pedal) there are no issues.

I'm enjoying THAR to its fullest extent and with family too.

I am pleased to read BD's remarks " I have put my blood, sweat, ............". Now I don't bother if tomorrow even M&M do not support me.

Long live BD's THAR.
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Old 28th June 2013, 23:31   #474
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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In my 9 months & 7500 km old Thar-Crde, other than poor braking (though I managed with double tapping brake pedal) there are no issues. I'm enjoying THAR to its fullest extent and with family too. I am pleased to read BD's remarks "I have put my blood, sweat, ............". Now I don't bother if tomorrow even M&M do not support me. Long live BD's THAR.
Dear Floating Axle - I just now read your post, sitting all alone at home (family is in Mumbai). At first, it did not sink in! Then I gave myself at least five high fives, punched my fist in the air and thoroughly laughed, so a big thank you to you! I can tell you one thing - if you keep the vehicle stock - "Nothing will happen to the car - EVER - you will only add fuel in it and drive". That's all!

This is a very delightful experience for me. I will be delighted to meet you and "admire" your vehicle. I work in Pune only. Please PM me your contact number, I will call you. Thanks once again, you have made all the efforts worthwhile. .

Customers Zindabad! TeamBHP Zindabad! You guys rock!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

cc: Vinod - OK? HaHaHa! This is just too good! Pinch me, I hope I am not dreaming!

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 28th June 2013 at 23:34.
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Old 29th June 2013, 05:50   #475
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I can tell you one thing - if you keep the vehicle stock - "Nothing will happen to the car - EVER - you will only add fuel in it and drive". That's all!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
While I can appreciate the enthusiasm that might have triggered such a statement, the truth might be a little farther away.

It's unfortunate that you have been surrounded by cars from manufacturers like Premier and Mahindra most of your life, due to which I feel you might have missed the quality revolution that has been happening in the Indian Automotive world thanks to companies like Toyota and Honda. From where the general expression " Fill it and forget it" comes from. I would recommend ownership of such a product to get an idea.

Using that expression for a Mahindra Thar, or any other Mahindra product, sounds a little more than optimistic, bordering on delusional.

Cheers.
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Old 29th June 2013, 08:09   #476
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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I feel you might have missed the quality revolution that has been happening in the Indian Automotive world thanks to companies like Toyota and Honda. From where the general expression " Fill it and forget it" comes from. I would recommend ownership of such a product to get an idea.
Since I own a CBU Suzuki from Japan, Indian made Hyundai and a Mahindra, I can appreciate what you are saying.

In my recent trip to Japan, this was one thing that really stood out. Complete absence of Jugaad, in every aspect of life. Even the cheapest nick-nacks I could buy in the street side shop was made of high quality, if not the highest. Every such trinket or snack I carried back home was highly appreciated by the family. This doesn't happen even in USA, where you can find lots of low-quality stuff. But I couldn't find any low quality item in Japan.

For somebody visiting from India, it is really eerie!
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Old 29th June 2013, 10:18   #477
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[b][u]

This is a very delightful experience for me. I will be delighted to meet you and "admire" your vehicle. I work in Pune only. Please PM me your contact number, I will call you. Thanks once again, you have made all the efforts worthwhile. .
Thank you. Being newbiew I could not PM you my number. So giving it here itself. ((*&%((*!%

Thanks.
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Old 29th June 2013, 10:27   #478
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Since I own a CBU Suzuki from Japan, Indian made Hyundai and a Mahindra, I can appreciate what you are saying.

In my recent trip to Japan, this was one thing that really stood out. Complete absence of Jugaad, in every aspect of life. Even the cheapest nick-nacks I could buy in the street side shop was made of high quality, if not the highest. Every such trinket or snack I carried back home was highly appreciated by the family. This doesn't happen even in USA, where you can find lots of low-quality stuff. But I couldn't find any low quality item in Japan.

For somebody visiting from India, it is really eerie!
Samurai san, agree with you completely.
I have been to Japan as part of my MBA and the amount of attention people give to high quality is scary.bus seats are made of soft touch fabric, public facilities are spotlessly clean and speedbreakers at parking ramp exits and entrances are "oh my god".
My being a car freak had a whale of time gawking at the auto door closing taxis( taxi seats are a spotless white and all drivers wear white gloves), the posh cars in roppongi hills and akasaka and i could never find any car that looked like a used car, ALL CARS ARE BRAND NEW, no dents, no scratches, no fade.(I was later told that one has to mandatorily replace the car every 3 years.)

It is considered a great shame if your car has a dent and a and matter of personal honour if your car breaks down in the middle of the road, both for the owner, the mechanic and the company. Just the reason why japanese cars are benchmarks in reliability and stress free ownership.

My family has owned a Maruti 800, Maruthi Zen(one of the early ones), Honda city, Toyota Camry, 2 Innovas(150,000 kms each without a squeak) and a current toyota fortuner and they have almost never seen a unscheduled visit to a service center. its a truly fill it, shut it and forget it relationship.

I also own a 1996 Mahindra Classic and even though it is in the best nick, i do have to spend an hour each weekend armed with a spanner set to tighten some bolts that come loose and get it greased every 15 days to keep it performing noiselessly.

Mahindra's are good, sturdy and tough, but they are not winning any reliability and ownership awards any time soon. The thar is mechanically good, but just dont expect to fill and ride. The latest XUV500 is the result of giving a Playstation 4 to a kid playing gilli danda, the electronics will be a hit or miss in such a vehicle coming from a manufacturer who evolved from tractors.
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Old 29th June 2013, 15:48   #479
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While I can appreciate the enthusiasm that might have triggered such a statement, the truth might be a little farther away. It's unfortunate that you have been surrounded by cars from manufacturers like Premier and Mahindra most of your life, due to which I feel you might have missed the quality revolution that has been happening in the Indian Automotive world thanks to companies like Toyota and Honda. From where the general expression " Fill it and forget it" comes from. I would recommend ownership of such a product to get an idea. Using that expression for a Mahindra Thar, or any other Mahindra product, sounds a little more than optimistic, bordering on delusional. Cheers.
Dear gthang - I have worked with the Japanese. I know how the Japanese work, it is a delight to work with them. I know the nuances which makes Japanese quality what it is. I have also seen the Japanese tear their hair out when they deal with "these fellows"!

The Japanese work with complete CLARITY. "These fellows" are exactly the opposite, something is suddenly asked in "meetings", somebody says "yes Sir" and if he feels like it, he tries to get others to do "something", ensuring that confusion reigns supreme and complete information is never given out. Why? I wish I knew, I guess I will never know!

The Japanese work with complete absence of what is known as DENIAL MODE. Again, for "these fellows", denial mode in simple terms goes like this - "Sir, vehicle X tires are wearing". "What nonsense, vehicle X does not have tires at all, how can they wear?" "But Sir, those black black things which go round and round, there are 4 Sir"! "Useless fellow, those are not tires". . I am not kidding. I have gone through such humour many times!

I took an extreme example of denial mode, but this mindset must change. If it does not change, then you are absolutely correct, "these fellows" are headed for trouble big time! With the kind of game changers coming in, it seems to be only a matter of time!

Amidst all this created confusionism, I still made the vehicle, at least accept that! Come on now gthang, I admit that I was nuts to do it, I guess I still am because I am writing this, but I am not that bad yaar! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

PS - by the way, it is possible to achieve the sentence - "nothing happens to the car - EVER - the customer only adds fuel and drives". My personal cars work this way! You need to know what to do and then actually do it! There is only one way to do a perfect job and that is the only correct way.
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Old 29th June 2013, 23:28   #480
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Dear gthang - I have worked with the Japanese. I know how the Japanese work, it is a delight to work with them. I know the nuances which makes Japanese quality what it is. I have also seen the Japanese tear their hair out when they deal with "these fellows"!

The Japanese work with complete CLARITY. "These fellows" are exactly the opposite, something is suddenly asked in "meetings", somebody says "yes Sir" and if he feels like it, he tries to get others to do "something", ensuring that confusion reigns supreme and complete information is never given out. Why? I wish I knew, I guess I will never know!

The Japanese work with complete absence of what is known as DENIAL MODE. Again, for "these fellows", denial mode in simple terms goes like this - "Sir, vehicle X tires are wearing". "What nonsense, vehicle X does not have tires at all, how can they wear?" "But Sir, those black black things which go round and round, there are 4 Sir"! "Useless fellow, those are not tires". . I am not kidding. I have gone through such humour many times!

I took an extreme example of denial mode, but this mindset must change. If it does not change, then you are absolutely correct, "these fellows" are headed for trouble big time! With the kind of game changers coming in, it seems to be only a matter of time!

Amidst all this created confusionism, I still made the vehicle, at least accept that! Come on now gthang, I admit that I was nuts to do it, I guess I still am because I am writing this, but I am not that bad yaar! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

PS - by the way, it is possible to achieve the sentence - "nothing happens to the car - EVER - the customer only adds fuel and drives". My personal cars work this way! You need to know what to do and then actually do it! There is only one way to do a perfect job and that is the only correct way.
BD Bhaaji, you don't need to shout top of your voice to justify or defend your creation.

The sales of Thar tells it all.

Do some of your magic on the Sumo, I need that as an family expedition vehicle for the summers and winters.

Parm.
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