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Old 5th July 2013, 10:34   #496
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Nice Joke. I see you have maintained a lovely sense of humor.






Desertfox - I guess this must be the part that people learn to live with when they get into the "jeep" lifestyle. From all that I have read on this forum, to me it seems that people have come to expect these issues are part & parcel of having to own a jeep. When the buyers get accustomed to and start accepting things the way they are - then the company surely will not have any motivation to change that in any way - would it?
I agree, 'condition' the people and make them 'numb'. Make them 'adjust' to your standards rather than the optimum standards. Call it the real 'Jeeper's' way.
Sadly this is the oldest technique still applied in India by politicians and sad to say businesses.
Even if Somebody like a Mr. Behram wants to make a superior product and offer it to the public, chip at it till it becomes ' max contribution' product rather than optimum product.
Hopefully, the people at Mahindra will realise that they need to work hard and work fast. Otherwise whenever Indian people are given a chance for a modern day alternative they desert the non-optimal product in droves, nostalgia be damned.
Remember the fiat's and the 118ne's and the ambassadors ?
From waiting period of 5 years to obsolescence in 5 years after the arrival of new cars in 1995.
Tata has realised this with it's modern cars the hard way, hopefully Mahindra will be proactive.
Regards.
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Old 5th July 2013, 16:30   #497
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Competition is the health pill for any industry.

Today Mahindra might be sitting pretty in a monopalisitc situation, but the way the car market is progressing in India, there will be a fight for every inch of space in the market.

And then a heady Mahindra will fade into oblivion.

Will it compete with technically superior products ? No.

Look at an example.

Premier Auto launched Premier Padmini in Dubai in 1994 through an agency called Nadoo Motors. It was priced at Dhs. 17,000 or Indian Rs. 136,000 in those days.

Premier Padmini for 17,000 or a 2nd hand 4 year old Toyota Corolla or Honda civic for this price.

THe choice was obvious it was the Corolla, Nissan Sunny or Honda Civic that won customer confidance. It made sense.

In 1996 Premier Padmini was scrapped from Dubai because it failed to clear the breaking test and emission tests in renewal of registration plates. All the LHD Padminis went to the scrapyards and Nadoo Motors went bankcrupt.

People who launched other junk like Iranian Saipa aba and all went the same way.

I guess Mahindra does know what lies in store for them in a few years,
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Old 5th July 2013, 17:04   #498
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I guess Mahindra does know what lies in store for them in a few years,
.. and they are busy making hay while the sun shines..I'm amazed at the hubris - they are peddling a shoddy product in the Indian market with impunity.
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Old 5th July 2013, 17:30   #499
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post

Dear Fazal - I am very happy to see that you have delighted the customer with your product. Can you please find out the load v/s deflection curve of your springs and compare them to Bolero VLX springs? You need an arbor press with a pressure gage. I want to learn, hence requesting!
Dear Sir,

This is not my product neither my trade. I have helped a few friends who wanted help with their Thar suspension, after having tried and failed with other changes.

The gentleman in the pic is an octogenarian called Janniah Sahab. This is the press he has been using since more than 3 decades, I do not know what would be its technical name and it does not have a gauge.

I trust his work than any factory job as I am using his springs since more than 10 years and they have never let me down. His experience of over 60 years definitely compensates for the lack of any gauge.

Sorry for the delay in my reply as I wanted to include the photograph of the press. For the thread starter and readers, pardon the OT here.
Regards,

Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!-20130705-12.27.15.jpg

Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!-20130705-12.40.21.jpg
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Old 5th July 2013, 17:43   #500
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Fazal Bhai,
Can he make a set of leaf springs for my MM 500 XD ?
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Old 5th July 2013, 19:03   #501
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Fazal Bhai,
Can he make a set of leaf springs for my MM 500 XD ?
Shahid bhai,

It can be done but, on the Thar it is a direct fit as it is brand new (not worn out bushes, beds and shackles) like a 540/50 which has done atleast ten years.
You will not get the full advantage if I send them across to you as the above issues too need to be rectified before the spring swap. Shibu had sent his 550 from Kerala exclusively for the spring job 3 years back and still uses them without any problem to date.
Regards,
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Old 6th July 2013, 00:23   #502
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
Sorry for the OT post...



I guess it is a culture thing.

Long, long ago, much before the birth of the www and internet, I remember reading an article about Japanese quality. There was some mention about the best quality products being reserved for the local markets and only the second-best being allowed to be exported to other countries.They wanted only the best quality products for their own people.

When I read this, I experienced both positive and negative feelings : happy, that there was a nation which valued it's own people in a better way; but very sad, that the case was just the opposite in my own Country (here, even today, we ensure that export-quality is always much better quality than the ones meant for local consumption).

Also, of the many brands owned by the Matsushita Electric Industrial company Ltd., the "National" brand was supposed to be the premier brand representing the best quality, and always sold in the local markets, as compared to its other brands like Panasonic and Quasar.
Definitely a culture thing imho. Another case that comes to mind are the Grand Seiko Japan-only mechanical watches. They're as expensive as Rolexes and are mainly intended for JDM consumption.

Cheers,

Jay
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Old 6th July 2013, 10:25   #503
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Originally Posted by nitin_80 View Post

I was thinking of putting additional velcro at the bottom of the rear flap and maybe join it with the top portion of the tailgate. Not sure how intelligent that solution would be but if you could share your idea it would be great
I have used my Thar's soft top on my old MM540. I removed the thick PVC beading within the rear flap (at the bottom). Replicating the old 540 design, I have used two Velcros outside and one Velcro inside the rear flap. These velcros are fastened to metal loops outside (and inside) the rear door.

End result? No flapping, no dust or water ingress. I shall post pictures when I find the time.
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Old 6th July 2013, 15:15   #504
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
Premier Auto launched Premier Padmini in Dubai in 1994 through an agency called Nadoo Motors. In 1996 Premier Padmini was scrapped from Dubai because it failed to clear the braking test and emission tests in renewal of registration plates. All the LHD Padminis went to the scrapyards and Nadoo Motors went bankcrupt.
Dear Shahidbhai - thank you for bringing up the LHD Premier Padmini in the Thar thread. You have achieved the impossible by closing even this loop for me. Boy-o-boy, this is just too good.

"Just like that" (absolutely for no reason whatsoever), I am attaching a photograph of me with my prized possession, my left hand drive Premier Padmini MH01YA3238 (previously KL05G7629). Out of the 14 or so known left hand drive fiats in India, mine is unique. All other LHD cars were imported from Italy. Mine (I believe) is the only one in India which was exported to Dubai, reimported into Kottayam, I picked it up from Kottayam, drove 1600 odd kms to Mumbai, paid lifetime tax, entry tax and octroi and got it re-registered officially in Mumbai with the MH01 number. I use it only for Sunday leisure drives. I shall keep this treasure with me forever, because collecting, restoring and maintaining classic cars is my hobby!

Now, don't tell me that Thar will go the same way, if you do, I shall ignore your comment as absolutely irrelevant!

Dear all - ENJOY! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Attached Thumbnails
Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!-cimg8190.jpg  


Last edited by benbsb29 : 7th July 2013 at 19:06. Reason: Fixed broken quote tag.
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Old 6th July 2013, 19:13   #505
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
thank you for bringing up the LHD Premier Padmini in the Thar thread. You have achieved the impossible by closing even this loop for me. Boy-o-boy, this is just too good.

"Just like that" (absolutely for no reason whatsoever), I am attaching a photograph of me with my prized possession, my left hand drive Premier Padmini MH01YA3238


Dear DB sir, Some of us Indians who have come from the era of ambys and fiats, which started with no power steering, no power brakes, no independent suspension/coil springs, no coolant reservoirs, no express highways, getting excited with the likes of Jagat Nanjappas on Yezdis & RDs, Premier Padminis group that continued in the INRC years till late '90s and Maruti Gypsy era then on , would very well understand the emotional attachment a diehard enthusiast and a auto wizard like yours. Its just that we live in India, where I have seen more of people loving to see a genuine effort towards progress or quality being penalized and being happy with the same.

I have owned top quality vehicles like the mercs, American 2 ton pickups, Hondas, Landcruisers and even Range Rover offlate . At the same time, I love driving the Scorpio and I still remember the oomph that I felt, when I drove my younger bro's Scorpio turbo in 2005 for the first time. I loved the steering feel and feedback and the way it took me through the Idukki ghats. Infact I loved that small bit of body roll that was well compensated with the control this vehicle had.

Thar, definitely a creation from your end from the Mahindra stables, with so much of inputs from the Team-BHP fraternity, is something I keep close to my heart for the history behind it that it holds and the capabilities(does have certain limitations(headers , I agree , I do agree ) and I guess there are many more like me in India. Some are silent though. I have put Thar CRDE to my TO_BUY list as a daily use whenever my wify or me are in India and keep that vehicle forever, just like my 89'er 540. I haven't seen you as yet , but I know atleast this that Mr.DB has put heartfelt effort to doing justice to this vehicle and its very wrong for youngsters to not understand his passion and limitations he had to go through to give us such a beauty of a product with this price tag and service opportunity. I am sure this platform would evolve eventually to something better, but at a cost.


Once again, Thank you Team-BHP and Thank you DB sir for making this THAR CRDE.

Regards, VeeJay

Last edited by benbsb29 : 7th July 2013 at 19:06. Reason: Fixed broken quote tag.
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Old 6th July 2013, 20:20   #506
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Sorry for the delay in my reply as I wanted to include the photograph of the press.
That's a mechanical (possibly toggle) press which the gentleman uses to form his material.

What I think BD meant was a hydraulic press where a pressure gauge can be marked off to give an indicative load. Purpose being to get a load deflection table/ graph.

Incidentally, I'm also interested in these graphs, both for our mundane and exotic springs.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 6th July 2013, 22:19   #507
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

@jmvivek, post #505

To be clear, no one is casting aspersions on BD, his effort, passion and drive to deliver a product in a challenging circumstances.

That recommendations from this fraternity were incorporated into the Thar (to the extent possible), is also well accepted.

The final product, and the delta therein, is being questioned here [What the customer drives off in a Thar from the showroom, and the headaches thereafter - an 8 lakh+ money pit]

Fool me once - shame on me, Fool me twice - shame on you
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Old 7th July 2013, 02:43   #508
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by desertfox View Post

And then a heady Mahindra will fade into oblivion.

I guess Mahindra does know what lies in store for them in a few years,
Hello Mr. Desertfox,
With all due respect,I beg to differ on your views.
Disliking a product is 1 thing & predicting a doomsday for the company is completely different.
I think that your post is a little below the belt.Comparing PAL and M&M is like comparing rat & a rhino!!!

Let me give you an eg:-
We all know the split between Renault and M&M. We all know the way Renault wanted to disassociate itself from the Logan & wanted to drop it like a hot potato. At that time M&M could have easily washed their hands off the Logan.
Did M&M do that? NO!!!
They took the Logan under it's wing.Gave the respect that it deserved and made respectable sales with it. ANY MANUFACTURER THAT TAKES A MARKET DUD & MAKES DECENT SALES OUT OF IT,IS WORTHY OF AN APPLAUSEPERIOD!!!

And I think,M&M did a HUGE HUGE favor on Renault by taking the Logan.If M&M too had not supported the Logan,the negative publicity would have killed Renault & they too would have gone the Pegeuot way!! We all know Logan as a Renault product & not as a Mahindra product. So there would have been practically 0 finger pointing towards M&M.
Imagine the plight of (few)thousands of Logan owners if M&M too had left it.
Obviously it was not social service all the way and M&M must have got monetary benefits too,but hey,it's business after all!!!

So BHP'ians,I suggest,bash the product if you dont like it,but without any prejudice.

DISCLAIMER - Mr.Desertfox, I admit I possess 1/100th of the knowledge as you, about offroading or the engineering finesse of the Thar. I too think that it's a serious oversight by M&M on the braking aspect of Thar.
So if I have offended you in any way, please accept my apologies.

Regards,
Varun

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Now, don't tell me that Thar will go the same way, if you do, I shall ignore your comment as absolutely irrelevant!
+100 to that!!! Would love to see your LHD Padmini one day!!

Regards,
Varun

Last edited by benbsb29 : 7th July 2013 at 19:08. Reason: Fixed broken quote tag.
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Old 7th July 2013, 08:59   #509
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Originally Posted by "powertrain View Post
We all know the split between Renault and M&M. We all know the way Renault wanted to disassociate itself from the Logan & wanted to drop it like a hot potato. At that time M&M could have easily washed their hands off the Logan.
Did M&M do that? NO!!!
They took the Logan under it's wing.Gave the respect that it deserved and made respectable sales with it. ANY MANUFACTURER THAT TAKES A MARKET DUD & MAKES DECENT SALES OUT OF IT,IS WORTHY OF AN APPLAUSEPERIOD!!!
Once upon a time there was a Company called 'Mahindra Ford India Limited' which made the famous Ford-Escort cars off yester-year.

Now the Company is independent (of Mahindra); renamed 'Ford India Pvt. Limited' and manufactures Ikon, Fiesta, Figo, Endeavour, Ecosport, etc.

The Ford Escorts became orphans!

Last edited by cpbopanna : 7th July 2013 at 09:18.
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Old 7th July 2013, 17:09   #510
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by powertrain View Post
We all know the split between Renault and M&M. We all know the way Renault wanted to disassociate itself from the Logan & wanted to drop it like a hot potato. At that time M&M could have easily washed their hands off the Logan.
Did M&M do that? NO!!!
They took the Logan under it's wing.Gave the respect that it deserved and made respectable sales with it. ANY MANUFACTURER THAT TAKES A MARKET DUD & MAKES DECENT SALES OUT OF IT,IS WORTHY OF AN APPLAUSEPERIOD!!!

And I think,M&M did a HUGE HUGE favor on Renault by taking the Logan.If M&M too had not supported the Logan,the negative publicity would have killed Renault & they too would have gone the Pegeuot way!! We all know Logan as a Renault product & not as a Mahindra product. So there would have been practically 0 finger pointing towards M&M.
Regards,
Varun
Hi,

I cant agree on your above views.We brought Logan trusting M&M and not Renault, who is a foreigner.

Now im buying Rexton, not trusting sasyong,but off course Mahindras. Will hold only Mahindras responsible for anything good or bad and we dont want/know others.Want to keep things v simple and low.

I am loyal to the brand and i expect same level of loyalty from the brand to me as well.We all are shelling out our hard earned money to brand/friend we trust.Not to anyone else.

Even though many issues are hi lighted here reg THAR, i dont have any complaint and my vehicle is just superb.

Last edited by Rajith : 7th July 2013 at 17:12.
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