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Old 11th July 2013, 19:08   #526
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Incredible! I would never have imagined! Guess my education continues!

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Sutripta


How unsarcastic your sarcastic comment can be!! Wish people join you on your shopping trips around your kind of "malls"
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Old 12th July 2013, 11:01   #527
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Yes nut my Jeep Story bloke now wishes to go out with NIOC boys for OTRs and too the more desparado ones, so the Thar becomes totally unsuitable vehicle for him because now he roams with a cult who climb rocks in the reverse gear.
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Old 13th July 2013, 19:30   #528
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Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
South Africa is not a very affluent community nor a booming economy for all.
A cheap 4x4 would always be welcome. A 200 BHP Jeep is not required here the terrain is hard and muddy mostly.
Can anyone post the price of a Mahindra Thar and a Jeep Wrangler JK and a Suzuki Vitara from SOuth Africa, the truth will come out why it is selling a few units.
Bhaisaab... I am so green in this segment, that during the OTR's I often get scared that a cow our a Buffalo might consider me as dinner.. hence was reading silently for so long.. but something had to be said.. hence this post. I used to be based in US, and have since then relocated to India. While there, I wanted a drive in India which would take me to places, back in 2009.. there was no options.. hence I had to go in for a Gypsy.. trust me the money I spent there with one of the best guys in India and the product I got in return.. had me wondering.. "agar pehle pata hota.. ki Thar namak Jeep clone launch ho raha hain".. I spent over 10 L so far.. for a ride, that gets eyeballs.. but not the feel I wanted. I am no Arka (He is a expert, I wish some day, I get a chance to meet him and learn from him) and I have made mistakes.. thats exactly the segment Thar fills in.. My tuner is someone I trust with my heart (most of TBhp Gyp owners does as well) and he gave his 100%.. still its "People like me" who want to go out there and drive and does not have a option. We do not want to spend hours sitting in mech's place being told, you are heavy footed.. you do not know how to run in a vehicle.. blah blah blah.. for whom Thar is a blessing.. We will wet our beaks on this and learn.. and for that Thank You Mr Behram and team.. We are morons accepted.. but we are morons who are willing to learn, and learn we will.. tell me something.. you among all people are the one, who knows the weakness and still you went for a trial.. I was wondering why?.. Get your LC's and Pajero's and 1.4 mil cross country events in India and I am sure Arka.. Vinod.. Aman.. Aarush will rise up to the challenge, and trust me it will be fun man.. I atleast can vouch for Arka and Aman.... till then.. Please lets realize, its a poor man's offroader (soft roader or no roader)..

On a lighter note, I am not a MM driver (hell, I am not a driver at all compared to your track record).. I drive a Gypsy.. and I will always be a Petrol head, but the closest I will consider as replacement for the pain I have been thru is a Thar, unless you can ship me one of the LC's from Gulf on a discounted price. Mr Desertfox, this country drives to work (i.e if they are not taking the metro/bus/train) in a Swift (pun intended).. for such people with the luxury ofcourse of no wifey Thar is a bliss.. We know it has problems.. but didn't LC has problems with US launch as well?.. I had one of those in US.. and I still have the recall records..

Mr Behram.. the question of it could have been better has been answered.. certainly.. and you.. yourself as agreed on the same.. I wish, the changes are bolt on for poor un's like me, who does not drive to work in a ML350.. and Thank You .. I wish to meet you one of this days in Pune, and maybe you are convert me into a Diesel head ..

.. Dude.. who ever bought the Red Wrangler and crossed me on Sholapur Rd earlier today.. you need to learn to drive man!.. and Offense meant.



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Old 13th July 2013, 21:21   #529
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If you ask me, the Thar is an incomplete vehicle, which you buy and complete. What I don't understand is coil suspension at the front and leaf springs at the rear, they should have gone one way instead of mixing and matching. I think that is one of the main disadvantages of the Thar, jack of all trades but master of none, it's not a full blown off roader, not a full blown on roader, not a family vehicle, not a posers delight, but manages to do a little bit of everything and for the price it sells, you have to buy it with your heart, and it's going to be very difficult if not impossible, convincing everyone in the family. I think Mahindra should have stuck with their custom job company and made the Thar on order keeping the MM540 alive
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Old 13th July 2013, 21:35   #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
If driven ON ROAD - CORRECT, mild sandy roads - PARTIALLY Correct, Tough offroad trails & Competitions - INCORRECT

W.r.t Speeds -
Under 80 kph - Correct, 80-120 kph - Partially correct, 120+ kph - Hold on to dear life and say "C O R R E E C C TTTTTT" actually incorrect.

The THAR sells today as there is no competition at this price point !!
Head On Bro.. IMHO not only the on the price point comparison on the PAIN IN BUTT comparison as well, you of all people know the pain we had to go thru (and perhaps unlucky souls like me still are going thru) to get vehicles sourced from Padam or xxx or yyy restore them.. run after pillar and post to get them registered.. we have all seen that.. trust me, its a pain.. If are heading this shores.. gimme a holler man. would love to catch up with you.. Well my Gyp comfortably does 120 + (Aman.. Thank You, so much..) and I am heavy footed.. maybe with the things I have in mind with Mahesh.. it will cross over..

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheARUN View Post
If you ask me, the Thar is an incomplete vehicle, which you buy and complete. What I don't understand is coil suspension at the front and leaf springs at the rear, they should have gone one way instead of mixing and matching. I think that is one of the main disadvantages of the Thar, jack of all trades but master of none, it's not a full blown off roader, not a full blown on roader, not a family vehicle, not a posers delight, but manages to do a little bit of everything and for the price it sells, you have to buy it with your heart, and it's going to be very difficult if not impossible, convincing everyone in the family. I think Mahindra should have stuck with their custom job company and made the Thar on order keeping the MM540 alive
Agreed Bro.. I guess M&M (not the chocolaty ones we chew for fun in US ) wanted to have a safe bet.. I recently was chatting with someone who usually does my Bulls.. and had the priviledge of witnessing the actual Thar.. The one Mr Behram subtly references.. it was may different.. and actually what the doctor prescribed. The question is, did M&M messed it up when they diluted the base model for the masses?.. 100% man.. no doubt about it.. but from OUR perspective.. OUR, is the group of people who spends every weekend on mechanics place.. and gets abused by them (strangely happens only in India)... but there is 99% market outside TBHP, would Wrangler would have become Wrangler unless early buyers supported it?.. I dont think so.. someone mentioned about South Africa being a poor country.. agreed.. so we are poor.. Do you have a bone with it?.. You have any idea, what Arka has done with his Jeep?.. Give him a Thar and see, what he does with it.. Why are we beating up a vehicle which has opened up the doors man?.. its like beating up a Ford T40 for lack of safety.. and the beaters.. either buy a XDP (Padam.. I am selling for you man) and spend your vacation in mech's place.. or buy Thar and take it to Mahindra Custom.. Yes it exists.. and I just drove a Thar in Pune done by M&M Custom.. FYI.. no plastiky stuff.. guess Mr Behram taught them well..

Arun.. don't try convincing the family bro. My Dog house is not AC'd for no purpose.. I have spent enuf time on it man..

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Originally Posted by headers View Post
Mahindra should / will cover this FOC - please chase your dealer. BTW, Mahindra manufacturing is world class, its just that the translation of WCM does not percolate down the chain
Bro.. Really!!.. Mahindra manufacturing is world class?.. I would agree if you say so.. but really?..



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Old 14th July 2013, 05:59   #531
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by TheARUN View Post
What I don't understand is coil suspension at the front and leaf springs at the rear, they should have gone one way instead of mixing and matching.
Thar has got a Torsionbar setup at the front .
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Old 14th July 2013, 06:15   #532
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Please correct me if I am wrong, you should not have different suspension set ups for different axles, leaf springs at the rear and no leaf springs at the front. The same thing happens in inter-city busses, air suspension at the back and leaf springs at the front, the vehicle suspension characteristics become unstable, one of the main reasons the Maximo is not able to dethrone the Ace is because Mahindra have gone with the Thar set up in the Maximo whereas the Ace uses leaf springs all round. They should have stuck with leaf springs at the front, in wanting better highway dynamics, they have sacrificed on off-road capability. They could have gone for composite leaf springs atleast all round, if they did not want to push leaf springs on urban population
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Old 14th July 2013, 07:22   #533
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by TheARUN View Post
Please correct me if I am wrong, you should not have different suspension set ups for different axles, leaf springs at the rear and no leaf springs at the front. The same thing happens in inter-city busses, air suspension at the back and leaf springs at the front, the vehicle suspension characteristics become unstable, one of the main reasons the Maximo is not able to dethrone the Ace is because Mahindra have gone with the Thar set up in the Maximo whereas the Ace uses leaf springs all round. They should have stuck with leaf springs at the front, in wanting better highway dynamics, they have sacrificed on off-road capability. They could have gone for composite leaf springs atleast all round, if they did not want to push leaf springs on urban population
A vehicle can have different setups [coil / torsion beam for front and leaf for rear] without any problems, IFF, designed correctly and installed.

The challenge is to make it perform flawlessly in all conditions the vehicle is intended to be used in.
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Old 14th July 2013, 09:05   #534
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The point I was trying to make is, when the vehicle is based on a chassis, then different types of suspension have different effects on the chassis, Mahindra should have gone for leaf springs front and back
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Old 14th July 2013, 13:36   #535
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by TheARUN View Post
The point I was trying to make is, when the vehicle is based on a chassis, then different types of suspension have different effects on the chassis, Mahindra should have gone for leaf springs front and back
My dear friend, for a vehicle with leaf springs all around, is the front roll stiffness and the rear roll stiffness same all around? Do you know when the torsion bar set up is used?

Spike
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Old 14th July 2013, 14:13   #536
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

In a recent poll of Mahindra Chassis the result was:

57% did not know they were suspended at all. All 57% thought it was just probation.
11% liked springs.
11% liked torsion bars.
12% stood mute, declaring that they were inanimate objects and didn't have to say nuttin to life forms, especially dumb humanoids.

22% thought that Ash Rai had a classy chassis....when she was younger.
3% like Rex the Wonder Dog.

Now for the important stuff. I don't like my immobilizer system. Can I just yank out the ignition switch and the two door locks and replace them with standard ignition switches and door locks? Or is this blasted system linked to a nasty control box somewhere that I would be better off leaving alone?
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Old 14th July 2013, 14:24   #537
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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
In a recent poll of Mahindra Chassis the result was:

57% did not know they were suspended at all. All 57% thought it was just probation.
11% liked springs.
11% liked torsion bars.
12% stood mute, declaring that they were inanimate objects and didn't have to say nuttin to life forms, especially dumb humanoids.

22% thought that Ash Rai had a classy chassis....when she was younger.
3% like Rex the Wonder Dog.

Now for the important stuff. I don't like my immobilizer system. Can I just yank out the ignition switch and the two door locks and replace them with standard ignition switches and door locks? Or is this blasted system linked to a nasty control box somewhere that I would be better off leaving alone?
LOL - Dirty Dan, fabulous statistics!

Leave your immobilizer alone for God's sake, it does not like any tampering!
The ECU is programmed to start the engine only on proper-handshaking with the 'matched' ignition key, if they don't hand-shake (or if there is a one-sided attempt to shake), prayers may not help!

I replaced my entire immobilizer unit under warranty and went through hell to get the new unit programmed!
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Old 14th July 2013, 17:28   #538
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

I can't see how a Thar DI would be inferior in any way to a MM550, and it would seem to be somewhat reasonably priced, as new vehicles go.

But never mind off-road, the more pricey Thar CRDe has ridiculously little low-end torque even in regular on-road hill-driving situations (which is where we live). I have been forced to use 4L in rough patches while climbing mountain link roads, where any standard 4x4 vehicle (excepting an old 1000cc Gypsy, maybe) would've managed in 4H. It does pull strongly once revved (a bit sudden on boost, thus difficult to modulate, really), but I found it frustrating and unsatisfying to drive in typical hill-road situations (for example, on a little road-trip beyond Puh in Kinnaur (H.P.)).

The vehicle's owner, for his part, is quite dissatisfied with his purchase. He'd read rave reviews when the vehicle was introduced, and now, after dumping some additional funds into it (hardtop - due to persistent exhaust fumes in the cabin, A/C, etc), is pretty well fed-up, in particular with the lack of quality in the details (door handles / latches / soft-top zips, etc, etc) which have been breaking from the beginning, and also with the very poor brakes, a common complaint which till now the showroom has not seen fit to rectify.

Anyway, I'm sure all this has been said somewhere already.

Regards,
Eric
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Old 14th July 2013, 21:32   #539
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I can't see how a Thar DI would be inferior in any way to a MM550, and it would seem to be somewhat reasonably priced, as new vehicles go.
You wouldn't think so but M&M has managed to screw the Thar DI up pretty good, too. 51 inch axles instead of the 57 and 53 inch MM550 front and rear axles givng the Thar DI a poor turning ratio. Terrible 3:73 differential ratios taking the low end grunt right out of the MDI3200tc.

Please see the thread by 4x4addict entitled The Mahindra Thar DI - Finally!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
But never mind off-road, the more pricey Thar CRDe has ridiculously little low-end torque even in regular on-road hill-driving situations (which is where we live). I have been forced to use 4L in rough patches while climbing mountain link roads, where any standard 4x4 vehicle (excepting an old 1000cc Gypsy, maybe) would've managed in 4H. It does pull strongly once revved (a bit sudden on boost, thus difficult to modulate, really), but I found it frustrating and unsatisfying to drive in typical hill-road situations (for example, on a little road-trip beyond Puh in Kinnaur (H.P.)).

The vehicle's owner, for his part, is quite dissatisfied with his purchase. He'd read rave reviews when the vehicle was introduced, and now, after dumping some additional funds into it (hardtop - due to persistent exhaust fumes in the cabin, A/C, etc), is pretty well fed-up, in particular with the lack of quality in the details (door handles / latches / soft-top zips, etc, etc) which have been breaking from the beginning, and also with the very poor brakes, a common complaint which till now the showroom has not seen fit to rectify.

Anyway, I'm sure all this has been said somewhere already.

Regards,
Eric
I agree with this completely. I am going to sell my Thar in 2014 sometime. I hope another vehicle by another manufacturer hits the market. Or I will build out a jeep somehow.

Keep that Marshall!!!
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Old 15th July 2013, 10:27   #540
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Slightly off-topic:

I had the pleasure of driving my Dad's restored (19 year old) 540 from Coorg to Bangalore yesterday.

The drive was nostalgic and sure hit a sweet spot. The precise throws of the KMT 90 gearbox, the nice drone of the XDP 4.90!

Agreed, the top-end cannot be compared to my Thar CRDe, but I cruised comfortably @ 80 kmph without unduly stressing the engine.

But the icing on the cake is the low-end torque, it moves from stand-still like a petrol vehicle! A boon when you consider the hundreds of road-humps on the Mysore-Bangalore highway. Though faster vehicles have an edge on straight stretches, I could catch up on the humps!

I was under the impression that the NEF 2.5 CRDe had good bottom-end grunt for everyday city driving, but the XDP 4.90 is much better! No turbo-lag in a normally aspirated engine, eh?

I can see myself enjoying my 540 on the streets of Bangalore for the next couple of months.

Last edited by cpbopanna : 15th July 2013 at 10:30.
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