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Old 15th July 2013, 11:17   #541
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Actually the Thar DI is a good vehicle for off roading except for :

A modification in final drive ratio
If an AC can be installed in a Bolero with the same 3200 DI engine, why not here ?
If a Bolero with DI engine can be registered in all cities why cant a Thar DI be registered.

What is the issue with launching a BS IV version of That DI

If anyone does not like NDMS tyres that comes on Thar DI there are plenty of options available for a change.

Price wise the Thar DI is rather OK.
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Old 15th July 2013, 11:31   #542
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Dear Behram ji.

Couple of your Premier Padminis are till under the cover at Ashwin Nagar, Saw it in June this year. Well i dont have the skills on writing, but have the gift of being gifted to watch & learn & that's when i have always have got to see the rare pieces of history from a very young age, you will not believe, saw a Legend under a cover yesterday Immaculate in condition which has done only 7000+ Km since 2006, What a Jeep, M&M had made, Nothing to beat this machine.
Warm regards
Vinay Thomas

Quote:
"Just like that" (absolutely for no reason whatsoever), I am attaching a photograph of me with my prized possession, my left hand drive Premier Padmini MH01YA3238 (previously KL05G7629). Out of the 14 or so known left hand drive fiats in India, mine is unique. All other LHD cars were imported from Italy. Mine (I believe) is the only one in India which was exported to Dubai, reimported into Kottayam, I picked it up from Kottayam, drove 1600 odd kms to Mumbai, paid lifetime tax, entry tax and octroi and got it re-registered officially in Mumbai with the MH01 number. I use it only for Sunday leisure drives. I shall keep this treasure with me forever, because collecting, restoring and maintaining classic cars is my hobby!

Now, don't tell me that Thar will go the same way, if you do, I shall ignore your comment as absolutely irrelevant!

Dear all - ENJOY! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by Samurai : 16th July 2013 at 00:01. Reason: fixed the quote
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Old 15th July 2013, 22:31   #543
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Originally Posted by TheARUN View Post
Please correct me if I am wrong, you should not have different suspension set ups for different axles, leaf springs at the rear and no leaf springs at the front. The same thing happens in inter-city busses, air suspension at the back and leaf springs at the front, the vehicle suspension characteristics become unstable, one of the main reasons the Maximo is not able to dethrone the Ace is because Mahindra have gone with the Thar set up in the Maximo whereas the Ace uses leaf springs all round. They should have stuck with leaf springs at the front, in wanting better highway dynamics, they have sacrificed on off-road capability. They could have gone for composite leaf springs atleast all round, if they did not want to push leaf springs on urban population
OT - maximo bombed because of the stupid ecu controlled crde engine and ace was a roadside mechs Darling. Small truck owners can't afford time and money of a showroom fix and always opt for a roadside mech to fix small niggles. And the # of authorized a.s.s arent many for the zillion villages these trucks are targeted. And these same roadside mechs finger around complicated ecu engines and give their "expert" verdict that maximo is a flop vehicle in the market. Blame is to be apportioned equally between a over smart manufacturer and the dumb public who aren't made for such machines.

Expectations and final outcome should match at least midway else many maximos will happen!!
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Old 16th July 2013, 09:29   #544
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
I think there needs to be a thread (with due inputs from DB saab), which looks at average joes like me and answers "Mods required to make THAR a family 'go-anywhere' vehicle". I am certain I won't do much of that kind of off-roading. Just the kind required when visiting a homestay in plantations or going to ladakh etc (the way anupmathur thinks of 4WD).
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Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
Sirjee, your post summarizes this dilemma for many. No option under 10 lacs for a family friendly 'occasional' offroader. You gotta build it.

I have been toying with the idea of a family 4wd tourer for the last year or so, sadly haven't found any - near about 10 lacs.
Recently I went to a jungle resort (a bungalow in the middle of the jungle that one reaches after offroading through narrow slushy tracks through coffee estates and Mudumalai forest outskirts).

There was a Thar parked there. Got chatting with the owner. He felt that the Thar was fine for 4-6L, but ~ 10L OTR (perhaps including the mods he did) was not worth it. The Thar handled the tracks well, but then so did my Fortuner, though it was a little too wide for the track, and couldn't fit into the ruts made by the Jeeps and Gypsys of the resort. The lighter weight and narrow dimensions of the SWB Thars, Jeeps and Gypsys are a better fit for those inclined, slushy, narrow trails where the valley facing side of the trail actually collapses if weight is put.

Anyway, my take: from outside it is gorgeous, but I would (hypothetically) only buy it if I were driving it alone, or perhaps with my wife. Never ever if I have to do a family trip with my child or even with parents. I personally can live with the sad interior fit and finish (as long as the vehicle is reliable), but I will never compromise on safety or basic comforts that are required by the family in a long drive. And I really don't get the side facing seats

So, a good vehicle for a single guy or a DINK couple. Not a family vehicle. But was never meant to be one in the first place.

Btw, the owner said that a fuse (the cig lighter one) blew the evening before the trip, and he couldn't figure out which fuse did what because that was not mentioned in the owner's manual. Finally after many calls to M&M they were able to guide him. Why wouldn't this be covered in the manual, if true (that fuse details are not there in the manual)? Is the Thar meant only for the mechanically inclined/savvy/DYI folks, like the Jeep is?

OT: There was a nice ARB clone bullguard that was fixed on the Thar. Looked very nice, and felt solid. Cost only 10K. I keep wishing for a bullguard but the voice of reason always tells me that the safety risk (own vehicle, pedestrians) is not worth it.

Last edited by nilanjanray : 16th July 2013 at 09:31.
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Old 16th July 2013, 11:38   #545
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Does the cigrette lighter socket come as OE in a Thar ? Which one was it DI or CRDe ?
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Old 16th July 2013, 13:29   #546
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Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
Does the cigrette lighter socket come as OE in a Thar ? Which one was it DI or CRDe ?
No cigarette lighter sockets from plant in any Thar
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Old 16th July 2013, 14:05   #547
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

In that case what help would Mahindra offer ? How do they know about an after market fitment ? Whether it is direct, taken from the parking light line or any other line ? For normal phone charging it is fine, but if spot lights and similar devices are fitted on to a Cig lighter socket then often the circuit wire wire burns out or a 5 AMP fuse will blow, this has to be wired through a 30 A fuse with a relay in the line circuit.
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Old 16th July 2013, 19:57   #548
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Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
In that case what help would Mahindra offer ? How do they know about an after market fitment ? Whether it is direct, taken from the parking light line or any other line ? For normal phone charging it is fine, but if spot lights and similar devices are fitted on to a Cig lighter socket then often the circuit wire wire burns out or a 5 AMP fuse will blow, this has to be wired through a 30 A fuse with a relay in the line circuit.
I think the issue was that there was no info/diagram on fuses - where the fusebox is (engine bay would have been the obvious places to look for it in any case), which fuse does what etc. I do know that in the Fortuner manual there are a couple of pages with detailed diagrams etc. Seems something like that is missing in the Thar manual.

I believe he wanted to use the lighter socket for charging his iphone.

Just sharing what I heard, he seemed like a very nice guy and had frank opinions.
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Old 17th July 2013, 10:29   #549
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

You can run a new line direct from your battery to a new fuse box you have installed, ground it properly, have an electrician install an after market lighter socket, some interior lights or whatever you want using the new box. It's easy, relatively.
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Old 18th July 2013, 17:53   #550
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I don't like my immobilizer system. Can I just yank out the ignition switch and the two door locks and replace them with standard ignition switches and door locks? Or is this blasted system linked to a nasty control box somewhere that I would be better off leaving alone?
Dear Ken - (I just had to type out this post). This is the great immobilizer story. After 99% of the vehicle development work was done, "the guy" "officially" woke up, and you know where? Inside the Jet Airways lounge of Mumbai airport! (what was the guy doing for 99% of the time is anybody's guess!). Then the "meeting types" took more interest in this feature than in the complete project. Remember that the steering column length was increased by 15 mm to accommodate the "system". Combination switch cover tools were redone with a lot of flak flying all over the place, as if the guys were doing each other a favor! Moral of story - "keep quiet, watch the fun, make the right noises only after 99% work is done"! I am asking on this open forum, is this the way? Of course not, this is not the correct way, but I guess, in the corporate world, it is like this only!

So Ken - leave the thingy alone, it's not even worth discussing! Keep your fingers crossed that it works and does not leave you stranded outside your club at 11 in the night! See what happened to Bopanna! (sorry Sir).

Dear Pratheesh - I find it rather amusing that Thar is one of the best gainers by sales volume in the thread "why I won't buy a Thar"! I hope the guys who fret and fume by reading the above paragraph to Ken read this one also, swallow the lump in their throat and keep quiet! That's why no LOL smiley today, although I am having the last laugh! HaHaHa!

BAAT KARTA HAI!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 18th July 2013 at 17:55.
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Old 18th July 2013, 18:56   #551
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Ken - (I just had to type out this post). This is the great immobilizer story. After 99% of the vehicle development work was done, "the guy" "officially" woke up, and you know where? Inside the Jet Airways lounge of Mumbai airport! (what was the guy doing for 99% of the time is anybody's guess!).

That's why no LOL smiley today, although I am having the last laugh! HaHaHa!

BAAT KARTA HAI!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Just out of curiosity, since you were the Product development manager, are you that "Guy"?

I would assume when making a soft top vehicle with no physical theft deterrent system, an immobilizer would have been part of the product development from the get go. Is this when the dual personality of the Thar as offroader/lifestyler comes to the rescue?

So, are you laughing at the customers who were gullible enough to buy it, or at M&M, whom you finally convinced to build it?

Cheers.
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Old 18th July 2013, 19:42   #552
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Wonder why M&M could not consider taking the effort of making the Thar a real first class lifestyle offroad vehicle on the lines of the Jeep Wrangler Rubecon.
Importantly, it ought to have been made with the same levels of fit, finish, leak-freedom, finesse and quality along with modern safety kit, comfort and driver aids. Unfortunately all these are sadly lacking in the Thar and it still does not come cheap!
I took my Dad to sit in one and he simply said that he wasn't really able to point out really important and serious differences between the much vaunted Thar and his last Estate MM550DP from 1999 before he retired. He said the ergonomics, fit, finish and quality ought to have improved in the ten years that had passed by, but sadly, they hadn't! I agree with him totally. He should know what he is talking about since he has had and driven all kinds of Jeeps over Thirty Five years of Tea and Coffee Planting...
He is not far out considering that the looks of the old 550 and the new Thar are very similar and those dies are also very similar!
With due respect to all here, I am very sorry indeed, but the Thar just simply does not 'cut it' in 2013. It is nothing more than a very expensive con job which is not worth its sticker price, given what it offers. This may sound blasphemous and may spark off a lot of hate mail on my head but as an old loyalist of M&M, I feel very strongly about it and I simply had to tell it like it is.

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Old 18th July 2013, 20:29   #553
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Just out of curiosity, since you were the Product development manager, are you that "Guy"?

I would assume when making a soft top vehicle with no physical theft deterrent system, an immobilizer would have been part of the product development from the get go
I think we all know Behram was not that "Guy".

Anyway, since you seem very knowledgeable about cars and their development process, how about shedding some light on the process. How does a car go from conception to production? Who are the stakeholders and how the product decisions are made?
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Old 18th July 2013, 20:33   #554
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Ken - (I just had to type out this post).
So Ken - leave the thingy alone, it's not even worth discussing! Keep your fingers crossed that it works and does not leave you stranded outside your club at 11 in the night! See what happened to Bopanna! (sorry Sir).

BAAT KARTA HAI!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Just to clarify matters, I had absolutely no problems with my original immobilizer. The dealer delivered my Jeep with a bent ignition key.

I had the ignition key (and therefore the entire assembly) replaced under warranty.

The reprogramming of the new key to the OE ECU was a hell of a job!
Took 3 visits to the workshop to have its key replaced (re-programming of immobilizer), since mine was one of the first Thars (with immobilizer) !
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Old 18th July 2013, 20:37   #555
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Ken - ..... Of course not, this is not the correct way, but I guess, in the corporate world, it is like this only!
By reading all of your posts on development of Thar, I assume M&M never really worked on a corporate system. All other manufacturers too work in an corporate environment and they do not roll out half baked product like this.

I think any development that is based on a 'system' can not have have so many misses. Mahindra knew that any product in this segment will sell and any more effort into development will not yield proportional profit. This is a myopic vision (we call that 'laala company') and not a fault of corporate system.
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