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Old 18th July 2013, 20:39   #556
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I think we all know Behram was not that "Guy".
Are you sure? I was not. Not after reading this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Moral of story - "keep quiet, watch the fun, make the right noises only after 99% work is done"!
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Anyway, since you seem very knowledgeable about cars and their development process, how about shedding some light on the process. How does a car go from conception to production? Who are the stakeholders and how the product decisions are made?
What made you think that I know all those things? If I did, I would have said "I know". I would not have said "I assume".

Cheers.
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Old 19th July 2013, 11:44   #557
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

It is so true that all of us have come a long way in expectation of comfort.

We are the same people who used to travel for hours in Ambassadors, Fiats, Narrow side facing Jeep seats because we were juniors. Only the two seniors - our fathers or uncles or elders sat on the front seat of a Jeep.

Today it is impossible to sit on a side facing rear seat. I sat in the MM 550 once and I was very uncomfortable, AC is a basic demand for most people in a car now.

I wonder if a non AC car the most basic Alto 800 is sold without one ?

FOr Thar to be a family vehicle the airconditioning and seat setting improvements are a must along with a factory fitted hard top.
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Old 19th July 2013, 14:19   #558
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Have been tracking this thread regularly and have seen many valid points put across by fellow members.

However I feel this is a never ending subject - why I think so is because Thar is still selling pretty well inspite of soo many issues well covered in this thread.
I want to point out that I am able to see more and more thar's on roads now in comparison to when it was launched initially in Delhi NCR region.
Unless the manufacturers is hit by sales declining due to quality of the vehicle, I dont see much happening on this, which I fear isnt happening and I am left wondering what makes the people of this country pick this vehicle up inspite of soo many issues on various front at the price point its being sold.
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Old 19th July 2013, 14:39   #559
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

I recently tried getting into the driving seat of a Fiat 1100D and suffered terribly. Yes we do look for greater comfort, security and safety as we evolve.
Also yes unfortunately, that the poor old Thar, despite all the humongous efforts that evidently went into its development, offers absolutely minimal comfort, security and safety.
Hence even I, as an old M&M Jeep enthusiast, would not wish to own or drive one of these.

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Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
It is so true that all of us have come a long way in expectation of comfort.

We are the same people who used to travel for hours in Ambassadors, Fiats, Narrow side facing Jeep seats because we were juniors. Only the two seniors - our fathers or uncles or elders sat on the front seat of a Jeep.

Today it is impossible to sit on a side facing rear seat. I sat in the MM 550 once and I was very uncomfortable, AC is a basic demand for most people in a car now.

I wonder if a non AC car the most basic Alto 800 is sold without one ?

FOr Thar to be a family vehicle the airconditioning and seat setting improvements are a must along with a factory fitted hard top.

Last edited by shankar.balan : 19th July 2013 at 14:44.
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Old 19th July 2013, 15:17   #560
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by invincible7 View Post
I am left wondering what makes the people of this country pick this vehicle up inspite of soo many issues on various front at the price point its being sold.
Hi,

You cant understand this.

Here its some thing like "Ye dhil ki bath hai". I do own a THAR CRDe and now booked second one for my younger brother today.

Rajith

Last edited by Rajith : 19th July 2013 at 15:24.
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Old 19th July 2013, 15:25   #561
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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what makes the people of this country pick this vehicle up inspite of soo many issues on various front at the price point its being sold.
Simple reason . There is a lack of competition to Mahindra when it comes to Jeeps. Where would a Person Looking to buy JEEP will go other than Mahindra ??
There is no option and this is exactly the reason why they dish Out a Vehicle with just engine , transmission , chassis and few seats to sit.

Take it or Leave it , you have no choice .At least it;s better than those Mayapuri jeeps and for more reliable .
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Old 19th July 2013, 15:26   #562
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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I do own a THAR CRDe and now booked second one for my younger brother today.

Rajith
Rajith, why another Thar man? You should have booked a Gurkha, are you not aware of this family friendly offroader from Force Motors?

Spike
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Old 19th July 2013, 15:32   #563
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Rajith, why another Thar man? You should have booked a Gurkha, are you not aware of this family friendly offroader from Force Motors?

Spike
I know about Gurkha,but heart doesnt allow to buy another brand.What to do?.Here i listened to my heart as it has made a comfortable zone with this Machine,Its road presence and all at M&M - RO,Sales office and at ASC.

Trust that known devil is better than an unknown angel.

Last edited by Rajith : 19th July 2013 at 15:36.
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Old 19th July 2013, 15:36   #564
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Originally Posted by Rajith View Post

I know about Gurkha,but heart doesnt allow to buy another brand.What do?.
Here i listened to my heart as i have made comfortable zone with machine.
Agree with you Rajith, once a Jeeper, always a Jeeper, come rain or shine.

It sort of gets into your DNA, right?
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Old 19th July 2013, 19:14   #565
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post

But never mind off-road, the more pricey Thar CRDe has ridiculously little low-end torque even in regular on-road hill-driving situations (which is where we live). I have been forced to use 4L in rough patches while climbing mountain link roads, where any standard 4x4 vehicle (excepting an old 1000cc Gypsy, maybe) would've managed in 4H. It does pull strongly once revved (a bit sudden on boost, thus difficult to modulate, really), but I found it frustrating and unsatisfying to drive in typical hill-road situations (for example, on a little road-trip beyond Puh in Kinnaur (H.P.)).


Regards,
Eric
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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post

I agree with this completely. I am going to sell my Thar in 2014 sometime. I hope another vehicle by another manufacturer hits the market. Or I will build out a jeep somehow.

Keep that Marshall!!!
Will a re-map be able to help tide over the "low end torque" issue?
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Old 19th July 2013, 21:14   #566
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by sach.sri View Post
Will a re-map be able to help tide over the "low end torque" issue?
I doubt it. It seems to be the map that Mahindra, in their infinite wisdom, intended. Aftermarket chip and map might help...dunno.

It is unfathomable that Mahindra let the Thar out the door into production in the shape it's in. Could be that the loss of key personnel is now telling.
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Old 19th July 2013, 22:03   #567
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Ken - (I just had to type out this post). This is the great immobilizer story. After 99% of the vehicle development work was done, "the guy" "officially" woke up, and you know where? Inside the Jet Airways lounge of Mumbai airport! (what was the guy doing for 99% of the time is anybody's guess!). Then the "meeting types" took more interest in this feature than in the complete project. Remember that the steering column length was increased by 15 mm to accommodate the "system". Combination switch cover tools were redone with a lot of flak flying all over the place, as if the guys were doing each other a favor! Moral of story - "keep quiet, watch the fun, make the right noises only after 99% work is done"! I am asking on this open forum, is this the way? Of course not, this is not the correct way, but I guess, in the corporate world, it is like this only!

So Ken - leave the thingy alone, it's not even worth discussing! Keep your fingers crossed that it works and does not leave you stranded outside your club at 11 in the night! See what happened to Bopanna! (sorry Sir).
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I have one of the newer Thars that comes with the immobilizer. For the unwashed, if you have a special Mahindra key you can start your Thar but if you just have a metal copy of the key, you can not start the car. Apparently there is an electric thing in the plastic end of the key that allows start up?

While at the dealer last week I tried to order two spares. I have lost one key of the original two shifting quarters to a new house. I wanted the dealer to make me two spares. Three seemed like a nice tidy number to have around. The service manager said I can not have 3. I can only have two. They are making me one spare only. I don't like Mahindra, period. And now I don't like them dictating to me how many freaking keys I can have to MY vehicle. I will have 16 if it freaking suits me! Added to that, my driver door lock works particularly roughly and my passenger side ain't much better.

Can I easily scrap this immobilizer business altogether and replace the ignition and door locks with.....er...mobilizer keys? Please don't give me the patter and schlock about the advantages of the IMMOBILIZER SYSTEM. I don't like it. I can rig in kill switches locally when it comes to security. I also don't like the idea that the replacement key has to come all the way from the factory and who knows when that donkey caravan will hit the silk roads in H.P. and get to me. By the way, the silk roads aren't silk at all. Another myth blown to bits on Team-BHP.
Found out today at the dealers that there is another way to get keys. You just order a key set from a dealer and they program them in their shop and off you go...they say. The only other way is have the Mahindra factory make them for you...the keys are definitely linked to the ECU (ECM)....but never more than two either way.
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Old 20th July 2013, 03:13   #568
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The Thar or other similar vehicle would probably only appeal to those who desperately require such bare-bones functionality and have no other viable option.
The Thar's complete lack of finesse, fit, finish and other things can possibly be excused only by anyone who has no better point of reference than an antediluvian automobile such as an old Fiat or Ambassador or similar.
Any person who has experienced some species of modernity and who is not willing to compromise safety, comfort, fit, ergonomics, finish and finesse, would not excuse the Thar by any stretch.
Take the case of the revamped Toyota FJ Cruiser. This car was a retro design inspiration from an old 1960's Toyota but there stops the similarity. Check it out inside and one will marvel at what they have done with it! The same goes for the LR Defender and of course, the Jeep Wrangler Rubecon as well.
It is only here in dear old India or similar third world country, that crude monstrosities like the Thar are proudly foisted on an unsuspecting public who know no better or who are just willing to take whatever comes down the pike without grumbling or reasoning too much. The best part is that it feels like a clear 'take it or leave it' scenario!
It just shows how supremely over confident and complacent the M&M guys are, of their market goodwill. Looks like another case of 'Make hay while the sun shines', with very little thought to the long term, typical of the Indian 'compromise' mentality.

Last edited by shankar.balan : 20th July 2013 at 03:23.
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Old 20th July 2013, 09:33   #569
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
It is only here in dear old India or similar third world country, that crude monstrosities like the Thar are proudly foisted on an unsuspecting public who know no better or who are just willing to take whatever comes down the pike without grumbling or reasoning too much. The best part is that it feels like a clear 'take it or leave it' scenario!
This is bit much to accept . Here in Pune the Thar CRDe costs some 8,35,000 INR . Anyone who puts such amount on table these days can not be termed as blindly buying it. The vehicle is there along with other vehicles like XUV , Scorpio which have better " fit finish " to compare with.

I will not term today's Thar customer as ' unsuspecting ' category.


Quote:
It just shows how supremely over confident and complacent the M&M guys are, of their market goodwill. Looks like another case of 'Make hay while the sun shines', with very little thought to the long term, typical of the Indian 'compromise' mentality.
Yes its true . Unfortunately the general public faces this in every corner of the life & they have a W E A K memory to add to that . No one takes nothing seriously. That is the reason why the AAM JANATA faces this music often .

Sudarshan
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Old 20th July 2013, 12:45   #570
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

A new Thar in Karnataka costs almost 9 lacs.
Considering that one can get a nice base level Scorpio or Safari or upper level Bolero for similar money, I believe only a real die hard enthusiast or utility focussed bloke will buy a Thar.
That said, I am not sure that they could have done a "Jeep Wrangler" on the Thar without adding hugely to the cost - which basically means that the safe, secure, comfy, leak-proof, ergonomic version of the Thar would have been priced at Stratospheric levels in the market place, which in turn would mean there would be very few takers indeed, for such a version, given our general 'VFM" consciousness!

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This is bit much to accept . Here in Pune the Thar CRDe costs some 8,35,000 INR . Anyone who puts such amount on table these days can not be termed as blindly buying it. The vehicle is there along with other vehicles like XUV , Scorpio which have better " fit finish " to compare with.

I will not term today's Thar customer as ' unsuspecting ' category.




Yes its true . Unfortunately the general public faces this in every corner of the life & they have a W E A K memory to add to that . No one takes nothing seriously. That is the reason why the AAM JANATA faces this music often .

Sudarshan
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