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Old 20th July 2013, 22:55   #571
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Hi All,
Like others I have seen this thread developing nicely with different point of views and here is my view:
Before I start to declare I am a Thar DI 4wd owner.
• Thar cannot be your one primary car, I don’t think the people who developed this product had this in mind. I don’t think this can be a primary & only car even for a farmer or a person who lives in the hills in these times.
• I think it was designed as a fun/adventure vehicle for most people who would buy it and secondly for other set who are passionate about jeeps (shape/heritage/camaraderie) etc.
• It is not cheap so utility was never its intended application. For that you have Thar DI or Bolero and second hand jeeps/boleros /Trax available.
• So in my view people who have expectations of luxury should not consider it.
Why Thar makes sense to me:
• I am an urban dweller in Bangalore so there was/will never be any reason for me to buy the Thar based on need or utility or 4WD
• I bought it because (in order of priority):
1. Needed a short wheel base 4wd as I would be the only person travelling in it and did not want to be worried before taking an unknown road.
2. Upgrade from my Bullet- read safer, more reliable, more space for my luggage and keeps my camera dry (yes there is absolutely no leakage from the soft top in the last 1.5 years even in heavy continuous rain whether it is parked or travelling).
3. I bought it for touring not mud plugging.
4. My reason for NOT wanting an AC- When I am travelling I like to take it slow (journey more important than destination) and when I get down to explore a place my body is already adjusted to the ambient air so the tendency to quickly get back into the coolness of AC is not there. Because you get tired easily it makes you take more breaks and slows you down so your target for a day of travel will reduce to 300 instead of 900-1000 KM/day. It works for me some of you may connect with this or not.
5. Bought the DI instead of CRDE because did not need a high speed vehicle, DI is good for 90-100 KMPH.
6. Feel more confident in this vehicle when travelling in rains, in Western Ghats and jungles slippery muddy roads instead of a car.
7. Do not prefer vehicles like Safari/Scorpio/bolero- too big for my needs.
8. For the rest of road travel with my family and flat out runs I use the mpfi esteem currently & aim upgrade to T-jet once I have more money.
9. Still have the bullet.
10. Only upgrade I have done is to put 16-235 Yoko Geolanders for safety and comfort.


Lastly in my ownership I have had zero reliability issues. ASS is ok if routine, out of the box thinking and customer service approach is not present.
I hope this helps the guys/girls who are thinking of buying a THAR and not stop them from buying a THAR.
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Old 21st July 2013, 11:04   #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohit Tripathi View Post
I am an urban dweller in Bangalore so there was/will never be any reason for me to buy the Thar based on need or utility or 4WD
Hey Rohit,
Thanks for that post. I had the exact same requirement as you 4 years back and ended up buying a gypsy (thar wasn't available yet).
Now though, things have changed.
Anyways, how did you get the DI registered in bangalore?
Cheers,
Deepak
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Old 21st July 2013, 11:49   #573
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I think we all know Behram was not that "Guy".

Anyway, since you seem very knowledgeable about cars and their development process, how about shedding some light on the process. How does a car go from conception to production? Who are the stakeholders and how the product decisions are made?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Are you sure? I was not. Not after reading this:



What made you think that I know all those things? If I did, I would have said "I know". I would not have said "I assume".

Cheers.
Actually, I don't think Samurai thinks that you know all these things. But I am just assuming, so I could be wrong. Gee, I wonder what time the monsoon mist of ignorance will roll in tonite...anybody get a look at the schedule????

Last edited by DirtyDan : 21st July 2013 at 11:54.
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Old 21st July 2013, 12:56   #574
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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Actually, I don't think Samurai thinks that you know all these things. But I am just assuming, so I could be wrong. Gee, I wonder what time the monsoon mist of ignorance will roll in tonite...anybody get a look at the schedule????
Do we have to wait for the Monsoons for the mist of ignorance? It might have hit the hills sooner than imagined.

What else would drive a sensible man to buy a Thar?

Cheers
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Old 21st July 2013, 13:04   #575
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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Do we have to wait for the Monsoons for the mist of ignorance? It might have hit the hills sooner than imagined.

What else would drive a sensible man to buy a Thar?

Cheers
Lol! to each his own i guess, i wouldnt waste my money on a thar or any MM scrap heap, neither will i waste my time trying to understand why someone picked it up. Theres a market for everything today. The thar has one and i guess we really have no other option but to wait for something else...like a good horse maybe.
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Old 21st July 2013, 13:55   #576
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Whoa! The mists are early today. Gee whizzers, the monsoons are so madcap and unpredictable.

One thing that puzzles me, Thar has been moderately successful. Mahindra has shown that there is a market for this vehicle, more accurately, for this niche, despite all of their incredible bungling on the Thar. So why haven't the other manufacturers jumped in? Maruti has the proven Jimny in its inventory with all developmental costs long since paid off. XA Alpha is waiting in the wings. Why haven't the competition answered? The Thar has been out there awhile now.
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Old 21st July 2013, 15:40   #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Ken - (I just had to type out this post). This is the great immobilizer story. After 99% of the vehicle development work was done, "the guy" "officially" woke up, and you know where? Inside the Jet Airways lounge of Mumbai airport! (what was the guy doing for 99% of the time is anybody's guess!). Then the "meeting types" took more interest in this feature than in the complete project. Remember that the steering column length was increased by 15 mm to accommodate the "system". Combination switch cover tools were redone with a lot of flak flying all over the place, as if the guys were doing each other a favor! Moral of story - "keep quiet, watch the fun, make the right noises only after 99% work is done"! I am asking on this open forum, is this the way? Of course not, this is not the correct way, but I guess, in the corporate world, it is like this only!

So Ken - leave the thingy alone, it's not even worth discussing! Keep your fingers crossed that it works and does not leave you stranded outside your club at 11 in the night! See what happened to Bopanna! (sorry Sir).

Dear Pratheesh - I find it rather amusing that Thar is one of the best gainers by sales volume in the thread "why I won't buy a Thar"! I hope the guys who fret and fume by reading the above paragraph to Ken read this one also, swallow the lump in their throat and keep quiet! That's why no LOL smiley today, although I am having the last laugh! HaHaHa!

BAAT KARTA HAI!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gthang View Post

......
I would assume when making a soft top vehicle with no physical theft deterrent system, an immobilizer would have been part of the product development from the get go. Is this when the dual personality of the Thar as offroader/lifestyler comes to the rescue?

So, are you laughing at the customers who were gullible enough to buy it, or at M&M, whom you finally convinced to build it?

Cheers.
I think B.D. was laughing at the Mahindra engineer who thought that this type of immobilizer was a good idea.....thus now catapulting Mahindra into the "non-profit" lock smithy business in a big way in the foreseeable future.

I can picture scores of Thar customers standing by their immobilized vehicles in the rain extending one hand and a digit, the international peace sign, into the air and cursing the day this engineer was born.

Sometimes when your co-workers and bosses just aren't listening you have to step back and let them stampede over the cliff. That seems to open their ears.
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Old 21st July 2013, 18:59   #578
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
I think B.D. was laughing at the Mahindra engineer who thought that this type of immobilizer was a good idea....

..That seems to open their ears.
Assuming again, are we?

Did I miss something or did BD have a better, "Engineered" solution other than the immobilizer for theft protection?

Wish he would have opened their "eyes" instead. I'm sure the Thar "sounds" just fine.

Cheers.
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Old 21st July 2013, 20:43   #579
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Did BD have a better, "Engineered" solution other than the immobilizer for theft protection?
Dear gthang - the answer is yes, and I had implemented this solution on my Scorpio LX in 2007 and on my Bolero VLX in 2010. On both vehicles, the thief tried, gave up (he must have right royally cursed me) and vanished. I have exactly the same solution on "another vehicle" as well . I jolly well know exactly what to do. I had helped TeamBHPians who had Scorpios / Boleros in Mumbai / Thane. Their vehicles got saved. Obviously, I will never share details on an open forum. To find out, you have to enter the thief's mind, my friend, so think. Then be more than one step ahead of him!

I am not against immobilizer, obviously it is a good feature for protecting any vehicle, but I got cheesed off by the way the whole thing was made to happen, as if the guy was doing a last minute favor. Anybody who is anybody in the corporate world will know why such behavior happens!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 21st July 2013, 22:11   #580
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by starter View Post
Hey Rohit,
Thanks for that post. I had the exact same requirement as you 4 years back and ended up buying a gypsy (thar wasn't available yet).
Now though, things have changed.
Anyways, how did you get the DI registered in bangalore?
Cheers,
Deepak
Hi Deepak, ,

You need to register it out of Bangalore however the dealership can advise you its not very difficult.

Regards
Rohit.
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Old 22nd July 2013, 12:34   #581
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Mod Note: A gentle warning to all members not to get personal and/or sarcastic in your posts and stick to the topic.
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Old 22nd July 2013, 13:15   #582
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

The average sale figure of Thar is 450 to 500 vehicles a month over a Mahindra total of 25,000 vehicles a month average. That is about 2 % of total sales for the company which sells 10,000 Boleros and 5000 scorpios a month. Will it be called sucessful and will it command Mahindra's attention for upgrades ?

Last edited by desertfox : 22nd July 2013 at 13:16.
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Old 22nd July 2013, 13:46   #583
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The average sale figure of Thar is 450 to 500 vehicles a month over a Mahindra total of 25,000 vehicles a month average. That is about 2 % of total sales for the company which sells 10,000 Boleros and 5000 scorpios a month. Will it be called sucessful and will it command Mahindra's attention for upgrades ?
# Whats the percentage of 4X4 vehicles sold in India (all companies included ) among all classes of vehicles. (Include ATV also)

# Whats the % of 4x4s, sold in Jeep class vehicles ? (LMV, SUV, MUV, Jeep, sumo,safari,storm,gurkha, Maruti, Ford, Mitsubishi, Toyota etc )

# Whats the % Thar 4X4s, sold in all the 4X4 sold by all companies included ?

4X4 vehicle is not even a market in any sense for all the companies to take seriously.

I buy it or I dont , will not make any difference to them.

Sudarshan
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Old 22nd July 2013, 13:51   #584
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

About 50 to 60 Thar Crde a month, 10 to 12 Thar DI 4x4

The 500 figure includes Thar DI 2x4 being purchased in rural India and govt. / police purchases.

Scorpio 4x4 ( Softroader ) + Safari Storme about 100 a month

Tempo Gurkha less than 5 a month

Sales figure of Fortuner, New Pajero Sports, Prado and Old Pajero / Montero if any would actually qualify as 4x4 sales as would Ford Endevour.
What about Skoda Yeti figures ? It is an AWD vehicle but no transfer case.
Is the Subaru Forrester still sold here ? It is also AWD. It was a Chevorlet Forrester here I guess one of my friends has it and I have seen a few more.

Gypsies are no longer available in Maruti showrooms
Grand Vitara sells 12 to 15 vehicles in a month at most.

Range Rover sales figures and Mercedes ML series could also be added for argument sake, maybe Porche Cayane sales but still these will be insignificant numbers and none of them will ever go off road.

Last edited by desertfox : 22nd July 2013 at 13:57.
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Old 22nd July 2013, 14:13   #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
About 50 to 60 Thar Crde a month, 10 to 12 Thar DI 4x4
Hmmnn , thats private sale I guess atleast the CRDe



Quote:
Scorpio 4x4 ( Softroader ) + Safari Storme about 100 a month
The Safari & Scorpio 4x4s particularly, 100 units look unlikely

Quote:
Tempo Gurkha less than 5 a month
Is it less problematic than a Thar CRDe ?

Quote:
Sales figure of Fortuner, New Pajero Sports, Prado and Old Pajero / Montero if any would actually qualify as 4x4 sales as would Ford Endevour.
I am OK with that

Despite all the Falling nut bolts etc , it is selling in a good %. It has competition or not, fact is a fact.

Sudarshan
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