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Old 28th July 2013, 20:36   #601
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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The other solution or partial solution has been hinted at by B.D. himself. The Thar's motor is an old Scorpio 2.6L that has been downsized via changing the stroke to 2498. So, just return the stroke back to its original 2.6L specs.

Somehow I think that is going to take more than throwing a new set of connecting rods into the motor. What, in fact, do you guys thinks it would take to restore a Thar motor to its original 2.6L shape? Is the return worth the investment?
Changing the stroke of an engine is nearly impossible, as major components need to be changed - crank shaft, connecting rods, cam shafts etc. Then how do you raise the height of the engine block to increase the stroke?

What is normally done is to change the bore of the engine and never the stroke.

I think it would be simpler to just take the Thar engine out and put the Scorpio 2.6L engine in its place.
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Old 28th July 2013, 20:43   #602
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Well, on second thought I am not ready to break the seal on a perfectly good head gasket to play around with the low end of a newish motor. Hence the theorem "Let sleeping dogs lie." and its corollary " If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I could probably find a good 2.6L from a Scorpio wreck and plug it in, 'ay? Then maybe I have some options about fuel pumps, injectors, performance boxes,maybe even turbos with this 2.6L...???

Aroy, you and I posted at about the same time....same conclussion looks like...editing this last bit in.

Last edited by DirtyDan : 28th July 2013 at 20:48.
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Old 28th July 2013, 21:27   #603
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Well, on second thought I am not ready to break the seal on a perfectly good head gasket to play around with the low end of a newish motor. Hence the theorem "Let sleeping dogs lie." and its corollary " If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I could probably find a good 2.6L from a Scorpio wreck and plug it in, 'ay? Then maybe I have some options about fuel pumps, injectors, performance boxes,maybe even turbos with this 2.6L...???

Aroy, you and I posted at about the same time....same conclussion looks like...editing this last bit in.
Well, great men think alike (and fools seldom differ)
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Old 1st August 2013, 15:14   #604
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

A alternative to Thar:
Dacia Duster 4x4 a.k.a Renault Duster
Made in India.
Sold in Europe in 4x4 guise.
Why can't Renault offer this in India ?
Keep a base trim, offer a 4x4 box and a optional raised suspension kit.
Does anybody have any knowledge if a such a product offering may indeed be forthcoming ?
No problems of brakes, no shoddy build quality, good, tough and macho looks, hard top, reliable a/c, the list can go on....
Regards,
Harsh.
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Old 1st August 2013, 15:52   #605
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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A alternative to Thar:
Dacia Duster 4x4 a.k.a Renault Duster
Made in India.
Sold in Europe in 4x4 guise.
Why can't Renault offer this in India ?
Keep a base trim, offer a 4x4 box and a optional raised suspension kit.
Does anybody have any knowledge if a such a product offering may indeed be forthcoming ?
No problems of brakes, no shoddy build quality, good, tough and macho looks, hard top, reliable a/c, the list can go on....
Regards,
Harsh.
And it does not contribute to the Indian economy also. and yes it does not employ many indians like Mahindra either. For your info, a Mahindra can be repaired by a road side mechanic because it does not have expensive electronics.

When Renault is able to match up all the above listed attributes, I will be the first one to dump my humble and reliable 340 & 540 and buy the alternative.

Andy
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Old 1st August 2013, 17:22   #606
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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And it does not contribute to the Indian economy also. and yes it does not employ many indians like Mahindra either. For your info, a Mahindra can be repaired by a road side mechanic because it does not have expensive electronics.

When Renault is able to match up all the above listed attributes, I will be the first one to dump my humble and reliable 340 & 540 and buy the alternative.

Andy
Dear Andy,
The Duster is made in India by Indians, exported to EU and contributes to the Indian economy.
Not sure if the Duster has more electronics than a Thar which also has an ECU and thus the better ability to be repaired by a road side mechanic.
Regards,
Harsh.
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Old 1st August 2013, 17:50   #607
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Dear Harsh,

We are Indians,end of the day, will promote only Indian products. These auto MNCs will always focus on economy of thier own country not on Indian, I have a very strong case for that. It is eyewash that Indians make Renault cars and then export and blah,blah,blah, apparently you see only the tip of the iceberg.

Will PM you the case if you insist

Andy
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Old 5th August 2013, 10:01   #608
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Eric, I think your idea of the Thar CRDe needing a small turbo for instant revs and instant response at low speeds is exactly correct. The MD3200tc has just such a turbo.

I am doubtful that any remapping can give this lump of iron the low end grunt it is missing but I might give it a try.

The other solution or partial solution has been hinted at by B.D. himself. The Thar's motor is an old Scorpio 2.6L that has been downsized via changing the stroke to 2498. So, just return the stroke back to its original 2.6L specs.

Somehow I think that is going to take more than throwing a new set of connecting rods into the motor. What, in fact, do you guys thinks it would take to restore a Thar motor to its original 2.6L shape? Is the return worth the investment?
There is a tuning box available for the thar from Racechip which may be a wiser option to try out before you rip apart that engine and try a different bore size. The torque gain figures are pretty decent from what they advertise and even if you're able to get 50-60% of that in reality, I think it will help solve the issue you have.

I must admit that though I read this thread sometimes for amusement, it's now filled with angry onlookers who want to buy a jeep thinking it's an SUV. And before everyone jumps on me for that statement, I'm outta here!
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Old 6th August 2013, 09:08   #609
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

The stroke of the 2.6 L engine is more by 4mm. So in that case we might have a problem with swapping the cylinder block as well. The stroke increase can be a result of different location of pin at the crank or a different con rod or maybe both. This is an area best left untouched. Even swapping engines might not be a good idea. There are minute last moment differences that frustrate the limits out of a person. As Amolpol said, the tuning box etc are the best bet. Also keep a check on the different sensors in the jeep. Sometimes power drop has been reported because of a dirty or malfunctioning sensor. Do drive another Thar if possible to have a comparison.
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Old 7th August 2013, 10:50   #610
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by Grace View Post
Dear Harsh,

We are Indians,end of the day, will promote only Indian products. These auto MNCs will always focus on economy of thier own country not on Indian, I have a very strong case for that. It is eyewash that Indians make Renault cars and then export and blah,blah,blah, apparently you see only the tip of the iceberg.

Will PM you the case if you insist

Andy
Hi,

Would be grateful, if you can also copy the contents to me through a PM.

OT, apart from manufacturing, selling an automobile also involves distribution, service and sales through its life cycle. You would agree that, that part is totally owned/managed by Indians?
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Old 7th August 2013, 11:26   #611
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by Grace View Post
Dear Harsh,

We are Indians,end of the day, will promote only Indian products. These auto MNCs will always focus on economy of thier own country not on Indian, I have a very strong case for that. It is eyewash that Indians make Renault cars and then export and blah,blah,blah, apparently you see only the tip of the iceberg.

Will PM you the case if you insist

Andy
Its quite comical. Home Countries of MNCs claim that they do not give money there and distribute it among subsidiaries and eat tax. Other claim they take money to home country. Quite funny.. eh?
I am sure your strong case or case study is enough for proof of your statement because there is only one MNC in the world and so your "strong" case covers 100%
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Old 7th August 2013, 11:35   #612
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

So what does any MNC do ? Any profit generated by their entity in one country (outside home), will remain right there ? I dont think so. They will give it some form/name, may be a "licence fee" or something, and ensure that (at least bulk of) the profits go back to the home country ..

or like with IT companies, keep the controlling contract outside, and transfer only the required amounts to keep the operations going on here ?

Last edited by condor : 7th August 2013 at 11:37.
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Old 7th August 2013, 11:45   #613
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There is a Transfer Pricing policy in any sovereign country's Income Tax laws that prevent repatriation of all profits to an MNC company's home country. India's Transfer Pricing policy is quite robust!
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Old 7th August 2013, 16:06   #614
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace View Post
Dear Harsh,

We are Indians,end of the day, will promote only Indian products. These auto MNCs will always focus on economy of thier own country not on Indian, I have a very strong case for that. It is eyewash that Indians make Renault cars and then export and blah,blah,blah, apparently you see only the tip of the iceberg.

Will PM you the case if you insist

Andy
In that case, we have TATAs and Mahindras as only options to choose from!
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Old 7th August 2013, 16:17   #615
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Default re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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So what does any MNC do ? Any profit generated by their entity in one country (outside home), will remain right there ? I dont think so. They will give it some form/name, may be a "licence fee" or something, and ensure that (at least bulk of) the profits go back to the home country ..
you make it sound like MNCs are run by a bunch of idiots.
The money earned is distributed in
1. Salaries
2. Infra development

Any profits left are paid to subsidiaries in low tax areas. So most MNCs usually do not take most of the money to their home countries.
Whenever a factory opens up(no matter who the owner is) and exports it, it earns a huge chunk of foreign exchange for the country.
Also think about the money paid in salaries, and in infrastructure(factories, assembly lines) development.
What drives the chinese economy. Not 5rs water pistol for holi. Its big companies and MNCs setting up manufacturing bases there.

If you see the books, profits are usually 15-20%. That means, about 80% of the revenue (which is huge) is invested in production and R&D facilities, and countries where these R&D or manufacturing centers are earn a huge amount of money,
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