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Old 22nd September 2013, 14:55   #691
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Originally Posted by jeeva View Post
I think, this is a very unhealthy trend and setting a wrong predicament for the forum.
Well said Jeevan, I feel the same.
But one thing, despite all such comments, he showed courage to post it here on the forum
BTW, how much did the Thar cost YOU on road? Also, it would be great if you share your reason for taking this decision. Didn't you consider the family friendly off roader ?
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Old 23rd September 2013, 07:30   #692
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by wbd8779 View Post


Jokes apart i do not see the reason why some members are aghast at his selection and want the thread to be deleted.

There are countless ownership threads which are also against a particular manufacturer , should we also delete the threads ?

Because I know the reason behind the title change .

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbd8779 View Post

Sreejmp -It helped only him and it confused common man, I am sure , Its not like he bought thar, Thar (foolish MM idiots) Bought Him.

I guess you also drive a MM550 which spends half his time in the garage , The" foolish MM idiots" bought you much earlier.
I bought My Jeep, not a "GIFT" for fooling members.

- Sreejesh
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Old 23rd September 2013, 09:19   #693
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

"All is well that ends well" and "Mr fox and his thar lived happily ever after"
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Old 23rd September 2013, 09:24   #694
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

In these days of cut throat marketing if anybody doubts the credibility of the discussion and especially of the member's opinion , I believe the person who has bashed a product and later on lapped up the same owes and explanation to what all has influenced him to change his decision .
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Old 23rd September 2013, 09:43   #695
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Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
Well in the absence of any other suitable off roader available, sold my MM 550 and paid for a Thar, will get it in a couple of weeks I guess. Let it be there, may drive it sometimes.
Hooray for the heart, the heart ultimately won over the head!

Congratulations Desert Fox, welcome to the clan, or should I rather say wolf-pack?

You will not regret your decision, mark my words!
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Old 23rd September 2013, 10:10   #696
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by sreejeshmp View Post
Because I know the reason behind the title change .



I bought My Jeep, not a "GIFT" for fooling members.

- Sreejesh
So, please give out the reason.

Cheers,

Jay
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Old 23rd September 2013, 11:29   #697
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

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Originally Posted by sreejeshmp View Post
... I bought My Jeep, not a "GIFT" for fooling members...
Am not sure of the merit of this statement, but being a silent reader of this thread, from day 1, and the total flip by the OP -after giving loads of reason why the product is bad, no less by throwing in his credentials all around - does bring up an thought if all us were taken for a 'ride'.

If indeed the OP got a "Gift" or even a "out of the usual discount" due to this thread - smart move by the OP. He knows how the market works. But bad for the forum. Hope the OP clears this out here.

I would like to believe that he spent his money, with this thread having no part in making it a sweet deal - but, it goes against what the stand was taken and where it ended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slalom View Post
In these days of cut throat marketing if anybody doubts the credibility of the discussion and especially of the member's opinion , I believe the person who has bashed a product and later on lapped up the same owes and explanation to what all has influenced him to change his decision .
+1.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 11:39   #698
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Desertfox - Everyone here is impatiently waiting to know the reason behind this huge change of mind from your end. What made you do this after all the previous comments/opinions you had about the vehicle?

I am sure you have been reading all the posts after your declaration. So please drop a line and enlighten us all with what made you do this.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 11:41   #699
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreejeshmp View Post
Because I know the reason behind the title change .



I bought My Jeep, not a "GIFT" for fooling members.

- Sreejesh
Well if you feel that DF has been gifted the Thar , then pls put the proof here.

If you do not have any , pls do not make unsubstantiated allegations . Period.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 11:42   #700
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

AN explaination and my mental thought process is owed to all fellow BHpians.

It is true that I love and respect Dhabhar Behram a lot for his lifetime of involvement and achievements. If I buy his creation and he gets a smile on his face for five minutes its worth it folks.

For that matter I also respect Uday Bhan Singh and Sudhir Kashyap and even Sudev Brar for their dedication to off road vehicles, Jeeps, Maruti Gysies and off roading.

Look at the facts :

I never drove my MM550 because of lack of Air Conditioning. I work in the corporate sector, therefore I need to dress is formal clothes Monday to Thursday and smart casuals on Friday.
I cannot come to office drenched in sweat, and it is very humid in Delhi. From March to October it is extremely hot here plus a non AC car involves a lot of dust coming in as well with all this construction going on along here.

If you dont drive a car it will rust and spoil, this is exactly what was happening. Battery going out flat, fan belt making sqeaking sound it was best to sell it off.

4WD options - I do have a Scorpio VLX 4WD, but having purchased it for Rs. 1,300,000 in Feb 2011, about the same price for which I had purchased a brand new Landcruiser VXR V8 4700 in 2002, do I have the heart to take it off roading, NO. ALthough I did take it off a few times.

What off roading do I do these days ? Say four or five times a year go off road for wild life photography to a forest or riverbed, plains wilds and arid lands. It is essential to have an open top vehicle for this, usually when not driving I am with the 70-300 mm lens mounted on my Nikon D3100 on the back of the vehicle.

Weight the options :

Gypsy - Not available. BS III thus registration problems. Pay a dealer in two months you will get it for 7.5 lakhs, no AC and AC doesnt work if installed. I have had problems with an MG413W MPFI which I owned earlier in 2008.

Tempo Gurkha - Poor steering position, god knows who the dealer is or where he is, spare parts not available.

Jeep Wrangler - No idea when it will be launched but will buy it whenever it is launched.

One nights last month I was driving the Jeep, MM 550 in some base of hills forest in Haryana at night and through some mud and slush. After coming back to our village base camp I gave the MM 550 to a driver and got back into my Bolero. The AC and power steering made such a difference. It was so easy.

If I had a Thar after selling off this 5 year old Bolero and the Jeep MM 550 there would be a vehicle :

I can drive 5 KM to the office sometimes in this and sometimes in Scorpio and keep both running.

On a sunny winter day I can take off the Thar's top and enjoy the weather.

STILL - what I dont like about the Thar.

Crude built quality.
Not a serious off roader at all, and dont ever dream of it. It is a mild to casual off roader and my off roading is of this style these days,
Bad Bolero seats.
Bad AC like a Bolero, no fresh air or proper recirculation but at least it is there and I guess the engine copes with it does not overheat. This needs to be seen.

I dont like the windscreen not opening.

Soft top vehicle, with AC running and top zipped down rear visor transparency is an issue not very good.

The price is over by Rs. 150,000 on the road price should be in the region of 650,000 to 670,000 then it will be a fair deal.

THis side board and plastic and low license plate position will hinder off roading. For that matter my Boleros side boards are all beat up.

Not a place to keep the vehicle documents and sunglasses, why no lock in the glove compartment my MM550 had one ?

Once a better vehicle like a Jeep Wrangler or Prado 2 door comes along I am going to abandon this Thar for sure this is more of a stop gap arrangement.

I dont like the HT tyres on it but it is the best alternative at the moment will look for something more suitable. Power steering vehicle so will take a 245.

But Geolanders splitting side walls has become a weekly report in a new vehicle each time so Geolanders are out.

Modifications planned :

Let me sit and check the seating position. May be modify the channel for a further push back.

A set of fice alloy wheels I guess.

Let me test drive it for a few km. If the brakes are poor then upgrade to scorpios booster for Rs. 11,500 extra.

Get a carpenter to built a wooden box that can fit under the seats. Lock it with a pad lock and the box with a chain. mask it with plastic / rubber / tape for noise reduction. COmpressor, tool kit, papers and sun glasses will go in there.

It is not a car of my choice folks but a stop gap compromise. Let it be there with the other cars, not care much about it.

Last edited by desertfox : 23rd September 2013 at 12:03.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 14:23   #701
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

All the best with your new ride, DesertFox.

Since you have taken the plunge, would it not be more fun in going the whole mile and modifying it as per your requirement. You do know where the short falls are and even more aware how to work around / correct that short fall.

And with the resources (and think tanks) you have access to (assumption), I would expect the only element holding you back will be yourself.

Safe drive!
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Old 23rd September 2013, 14:24   #702
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox
I need a Jeep for some serious off road work. A vehicle needs to endure the beating given by off road terrain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox
What off roading do I do these days ? Say four or five times a year go off road for wild life photography to a forest or riverbed, plains wilds and arid lands.
So I am ignoring the contradiction above to ask a simple question. Why did you not just buy a nice AC sedan/ hatchback? As a matter of fact, a lot of us so called Jeep enthusiasts use the Thar to go to office. The Thar gave us that opportunity. And you as a fancy hardcore professional off-roader made us feel cheap.

Like here ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox
How to cross an 8 inch puddle - Where will the city dweller types ever find one ? They dont go near 2 inch puddles in their Gucci shoes. The challenge is how to cross an 8 inch puddle where the underfender and mudflap comes out clean without a drop of dirty murky water
and here ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox
I am not the one who puts huge woofers and music system in a Jeep wannabe lookalike clone , takes off the top and parks next to an ice cream shop with blaring disco music. Perhaps the Thar has been designed for exactly this cult.
In fact, these were your credentials, as shared by you, then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox
I am shahid Ahmad. Age 45

Off road adventure experience on 4 continents.
3 times winner of 1000 dunes desert rally.
team toyota driver
285,000 km driven off road and 1900 off road trips till date. Will drive more.
Designer of Toyo - Open Country OP/DH tyre for landcruisers
Chief Marshal - Dubai Desert Club
Chief Marshal - Gulf News fun drive for 12 years
Route Director & Chief Marshal - Great Escape Desert Adventure, Dubai sponsored by Toyota, Dunlop Tyres and Total Lubricants.

If I talk I know what I am saying.
And these are your credentials, as per what you are saying you are, now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox
I work in the corporate sector, therefore I need to dress is formal clothes Monday to Thursday and smart casuals on Friday.
I cannot come to office drenched in sweat, and it is very humid in Delhi.
And this below are your ONLY credentials that matter. It is what you are, in fact. The only thing that matters. By the man himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala
Need an all rounder and budget is not an issue, intend to do fair share of upgrades suiting individual tastes, in need of single driven personal 4x4 that stands out- buy THAR CRDe
Suddenly, you and I are not so different afterall. I am sure we will meet someday. Delhi OTR community is not that big.

But you know what else I realized, that this thread has been completely useless and a waste of my time. I am not going to spend any more time on this (hopefully) than I already have. If we wanted, and had the time, and the inclination, we could drill holes all over the contradictions you have made in this thread. Why go far back, here is the latest one, after you bought the Thar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox
If the Thar AC works good I will drive it to work as well. But this Thar will also be my personal car, no driver touches it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox
It is not a car of my choice folks but a stop gap compromise. Let it be there with the other cars, not care much about it.
Anyhow, I do not want to waste anymore time on this thread. I would rather spend it helping out folks on the other Thar ownership threads. See you around.

Last edited by manveet : 23rd September 2013 at 14:28.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 14:34   #703
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

I can modify it, will add alloy wheels, better brakes if required, a lockable box, see if a K & N filter can sit in there, but it can never be modified as a serious off roader because there are basic design faults in there, be it CV joints, link rod, tie ends, proper bash plates, just ain't there.

What can I do ? Add a roll cage, buy old man emu suxpensions, nitro shockers, coil springs, replace the rear with ARB leaf springs, add spaces fit Maxxis mud terrain tyres, half a dozen lights here and there, put a winch on it, buy sparco seats and install them, modify all electricals. Put a snorkel in the front, buy a bikni top, add flender flares, install bonnet top cover, the list is endless.

It can be done but none of this will improve off roading capabilities of a THAR at all. It is basically not designed as an off road machine.

For a real off roader you need :

220 to 250 bhp power
excellent angle of approach and departure
bash plates and protection
heavy duty teflon clutch
solid front axle
proper tow points
200 mm ground clearance
proper body fitted roll cage, including driver cabin top protection
which beans roll bars as well besides roll cage

Why I bought one - Its a Jeep thing you wont understand.
A sporting gentleman cannot live without a proper Jeep standing outside your house even if you dont like it or dont drive it.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 15:50   #704
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
...
Why I bought one - Its a Jeep thing you wont understand.
I find this to be one of the most abused statement - some people mean it and some use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
...A sporting gentleman cannot live without a proper Jeep standing outside your house even if you dont like it or dont drive it.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 15:53   #705
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

My question still remains and I repeat it.
What has changed in the Thar for it to become suddenly appeasing to you?

Your comprehensive list contains exactly the reasons why people prefer/buy Thar today and which you have been denying from day one!
Clearly, you have been in the very same situation(AC,corporate suits, power dressing, rust, off-roading, sand, windscreen, Bolero seats, build quality blah.. blah.) from at-least the day you started off this thread. Why was not the Thar an option for you then?

45 pages of all up in arms against the Thar and one fine day, you make up your mind against your own tide and say its a stop gap compromise! I ain't buying it chief.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
Why I bought one - Its a Jeep thing you wont understand.
Really? I am baffled!
I suggest you better leave it at that. Not long before, the Thar for you was all these and more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
Mule that Thar is with MM550 body, Bolero Dashboard, Scorpio front suspension, altered crawl ratio, and reduced stroke CRD engine.

MM550 + MM540 + Cj3B + CJ3A + Willys MB + Ford GPW + Gypsy + 4x4 CL340 = Thar Rescue vehicle

Why should I buy it for 7.5 Lakhs when the house Bolero is more comfortable than this and was purchased for 6.65 lakhs ?

Last edited by jeeva : 23rd September 2013 at 15:54.
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