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Old 23rd September 2013, 16:29   #706
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Jeeva to answer your questions - Thar remains a wrongly priced, assembled from bin incompetent off road vehicle. It cannot do serious off roading.

I dont do serious off roading these days. I dont have the time and refuse to wake up at 4 AM on a Sunday morning to do an NIOC OTR at 5 AM. I have grown old. No kid I am 46 years old now.

For the limited off roading that I do of the type mentioned above, Thar is not the perfect thing but a compromise that can fill the gap of the MM550 and the Bolero combined which I have sold.

On potholed Gurgaon roads why spoil a nice Scorpio, it is best to ride the potholes in a Thar, if it is there.

And among other vehicles, if a Thar has indeed been purchased, why worry so much, let it be around. It is not or will never be a dream come true vehicle for me, earlier in life it used to be a Landcruiser, and thanks to God almighty I have lived my dream to the full.

A new dream maybe a customized Sbarro 4x4 with a Landcruiser Chassis some day.

But who cares much about a Thar, if it is there let it be there.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 16:44   #707
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
I am shahid Ahmad. Age 45

Off road adventure experience on 4 continents.
3 times winner of 1000 dunes desert rally.
team toyota driver
285,000 km driven off road and 1900 off road trips till date. Will drive more.
Designer of Toyo - Open Country OP/DH tyre for landcruisers
Chief Marshal - Dubai Desert Club
Chief Marshal - Gulf News fun drive for 12 years
Route Director & Chief Marshal - Great Escape Desert Adventure, Dubai sponsored by Toyota, Dunlop Tyres and Total Lubricants
Hi Shahid,

Can you please share the years you won 1000 dunes desert rally? I was just browsing throught the records of the 100DDR but was not able to find name of any Indian. While you are at it please also share the pics of the golden swords you must have got as the 3 time winner of 1000DDR.

Please share.

-Ijeet
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Old 23rd September 2013, 20:38   #708
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Like the old adage; It's each one to themselves, Thar for all:-)!
Congrats Shahid. While your pride now says 'let it be there', with time, you will "like driving it everywhere".
Enjoy the ride. It will grow on you:-)!
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Old 24th September 2013, 11:11   #709
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ijeet View Post
Hi Shahid,

Can you please share the years you won 1000 dunes desert rally? I was just browsing throught the records of the 100DDR but was not able to find name of any Indian. While you are at it please also share the pics of the golden swords you must have got as the 3 time winner of 1000DDR.

Please share.

-Ijeet
Me too searched hard for the facts, but no avail.

I could not find anything related to Mr. Shahid winning such event. May be he participated under different name.

He would be the best person to clarify. There will be pics of such precious moment can we share those Mr Shahid ?

Sudarshan
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Old 24th September 2013, 11:57   #710
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Exclamation Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Very sorry for the seemingly back to back post , But haven't found anything linking / supporting Mr. Shahid's claim of being a winner of 1000 dunes rally.

But I found this. A name like his has been mentioned in the said page in different context . Are they same persons ?

http://dubai4x4.com/modules.php?name...=print&sid=215

also

http://www.dubai4x4.com//modules.php...rticle&sid=215

Apologies in advance if my info leads to wrong direction

Sudarshan

Last edited by Sudarshan : 24th September 2013 at 12:08.
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Old 24th September 2013, 13:19   #711
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Sahid Bhai's getting a Thar brings us back to the initial response. Thar is the only new 4x4 you can buy with warranty and insurance below 10L with a wide company support. In spite of its off road limitations (as claimed by Shahid Bhai) it is all that you can get.

What is the competition -
. Gurkha is still BS-III hence cannot be bought in the Metros. That is apart from its sparse dealer and work shop presence.
. The wrangler is $30k in US, which translates to much more than 30L at 100% duty and current dollar rates.
. Other SWB 4x4 in this class are even more expensive - Pajero, Land Cruiser and the G-Wagen.

So what choice does one have? NOTHING, unless you want to spend oodles of money and import your dream. That is why inspite of all the vitriolic he has spewed Shahid Bhai had no option but to get the Thar. In a way BD has won this round hands down.

NOTE.
When we talk of a very high OTR of the Thar we forget that the cumulative taxes on motor vehicles are upto 50% of its ex-show room costs (add excise and vat on each stage of manufacturing). Then you have atrocious road tax which is any where from 4% to 12%. None of these are there in US which makes their vehicles much cheaper.

Last edited by Aroy : 24th September 2013 at 13:22.
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Old 25th September 2013, 18:19   #712
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox
3 times winner of 1000 dunes desert rally.
Like others have asked before, please share more info on this. This is really awesome stuff so you can understand why everyone is really curious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox
team toyota driver
Please clarify if you were a driver for Toyota, or for Al Futtaim Motors, the UAE Dealers for Toyota.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox
Designer of Toyo - Open Country OP/DH tyre for landcruisers
Please clarify if you were a designer for the tire, or a driver for the design team, wherein your job was to drive the tire for certain miles in certain conditions and then return the tire to the design team for analysis. Again, did Al Futtaim Motors, the Toyota dealership in UAE, have anything to do with this prestigious assignment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox
Chief Marshal - Dubai Desert Club
Chief Marshal - Gulf News fun drive for 12 years
Route Director & Chief Marshal - Great Escape Desert Adventure, Dubai sponsored by Toyota, Dunlop Tyres and Total Lubricants
Please clarify if any of these Clubs or adventures were in anyway supported, or organized, or sponsored by Al Futtaim Motors, Toyota.

Thanks.

Last edited by manveet : 25th September 2013 at 18:21.
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Old 25th September 2013, 18:55   #713
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

I somehow feel that this thread is not in team bhp's spirit anymore. Nobody questioned the thread opener's credentials when he bashed the Thar. Why are so many questions arising when he stopped bashing and bought the vehicle?
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Old 25th September 2013, 19:04   #714
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
I somehow feel that this thread is not in team bhp's spirit anymore. Nobody questioned the thread opener's credentials when he bashed the Thar. Why are so many questions arising when he stopped bashing and bought the vehicle?
In fact, don't you think it in fact "highlights" the very spirit of an open, unbiased, neutral and transparent forum. A spirit of trust and mutual respect between the members of the community.

But in the end, everyone trusts only up to the point wherein they are given substantial reason NOT to trust.

Last edited by manveet : 25th September 2013 at 19:07.
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Old 25th September 2013, 19:12   #715
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet View Post
In fact, don't you think it in fact "highlights" the very spirit of an open, unbiased, neutral and transparent forum. A spirit of trust and mutual respect between the members of the community.

But in the end, everyone trusts only up to the point wherein they are given substantial reason NOT to trust.
I agree to your point but my concern was not about the questions being raised, it was about the timing of those questions. I am not sure if I am able to convey the message.
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Old 25th September 2013, 20:48   #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
I somehow feel that this thread is not in team bhp's spirit anymore.
Is there anything more to say than yes to what you are pointing out ?


Quote:
Nobody questioned the thread opener's credentials when he bashed the Thar. Why are so many questions arising when he stopped bashing and bought the vehicle?
The "Reason" is the sudden U turn, after what you have rightly mentioned as " he Bashed ". He did the bashing " Properly " , sometimes up-to a level of raising alarm, such as to report the posts. It was very personal sometimes.

This sudden U turn & the subsequent "Lame", (yes very lame) reasoning for that, gave rise to the thing called SUSPICION .

I have not seen it happen here before, vary rare, the one case I saw was a theft of pics & BHP banned the user a/c.

But Beyond that 'U turn' its 'Lame reasoning' or the 'suspicion', I think he still has a fair chance to prove the suspicion thing ALL WRONG . In that case I will be the first person to Apologize for raising a 'Doubt', & I mean it. (well I was the one who raised it first)

And beyond all this, is asking questions is a wrong thing ? Truth shall stand & nothing else. Answers to the questions may even bring in to light, the reason behind the whole thread.

Sudarshan
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Old 25th September 2013, 21:09   #717
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
In a way BD has won this round hands down.
Dear Aroy and all - reference your quote above, everybody plays to win, me included. But in the end, it is not about winning. It is all about "SYMPHONY". Symphony means "SOUNDING TOGETHER". The relevancy of my comments lies in these simple facts:

1. The new era of leadership has to do with enrolling people in a vision or an idea. I tried my level best to enrol my biggest critic in my vision / idea. I don't know whether the end result as it turned out is called "winning". However, I firmly know that in a symphony, the conductor is not the dominator. He is the relentless architect of the possibility that the others can be.

2. "Lead By Making Others Powerful". In this case, this has been slowly, inexorably and very consciously made to happen, I admit it openly today .

So Dear Shahidbhai - I sincerely thank you for being the greatest "positive critic" of this product of mine (there will certainly be other products with other positive critics, I hope ) and providing it the much needed recognition that it rightly deserved. I wish you all the best of luck with it. I am sure you won't sell it, because real Jeep lovers don't ever sell their Jeeps! That CJ5 shape is timeless!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

PS - IN THE END, THERE IS NO END!
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Old 26th September 2013, 11:32   #718
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Dear Members,

Been following this thread since posted.

Desert Fox's reasons for not buying a Thar were his open views that I appreciate, likewise his decision to buy a Thar and openly announcing it on the same thread that he opposed, needs an applause.

A person has the right to voice his concerns and also the right to make a change in his decision. Fact of the matter is, there are no better alternatives available to a Thar today.

keep it simple, Its his prerogative and should not be seen as "trolled" or seen through a suspicious scanner.

How many here would do what he did after buying one?
Regards,
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Old 26th September 2013, 14:12   #719
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
[b]

keep it simple, Its his prerogative and should not be seen as "trolled" or seen through a suspicious scanner.

How many here would do what he did after buying one?
Regards,
Agree with Fazal Ji. At least Deserfox (Shahid bhai) publicly accepted his decisions and constraints under which he took that decision. He had the option of not to disclose his decision at all.
Mud slinging would not help anyone of us, except adding few more pages under this thread.
Lets move on.........

Shubhendra Singh
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Old 26th September 2013, 14:19   #720
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Default Re: Why I won't buy a Thar... booked Thar!

I don't understand why members think its mud slinging. he gave his credntials with a pretty strong worded line

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox
I am shahid Ahmad. Age 45

Off road adventure experience on 4 continents.
3 times winner of 1000 dunes desert rally.
team toyota driver
285,000 km driven off road and 1900 off road trips till date. Will drive more.
Designer of Toyo - Open Country OP/DH tyre for landcruisers
Chief Marshal - Dubai Desert Club
Chief Marshal - Gulf News fun drive for 12 years
Route Director & Chief Marshal - Great Escape Desert Adventure, Dubai sponsored by Toyota, Dunlop Tyres and Total Lubricants.

If I talk I know what I am saying.

Its just like what we people deal with in our daily lives when somebody comes throwing names and saying "You know whos my daddy" I just asked him please tell us who is your daddy..

Last edited by ijeet : 26th September 2013 at 14:21.
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