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Old 14th May 2013, 00:39   #16
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
My reasoning is as follows..... its not cheap to start with, so why not follow the G-wagen model and fill in the missing bits to make it desirable as a rugged -luxury product for western markets where the G-wagen sells
The problem is that:

1. It isnt cheap

2. It isnt even comfortable, forget luxury

3. It isnt terribly reliable. It wont leave you stranded, but it can annoy you no end with little bits that need attention. A very good match for Tata, then.

Where it excels is in its ability to withstand abuse and punishment. You can whip it into doing things that its wheezy engines arent capable of, simply because it will take all that punishment and keep going to reach where others get to without all that drama.

It makes for an extremely interesting ownership experience, though. You wont forget your Landy in a hurry.

Last edited by Steeroid : 14th May 2013 at 00:40.
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Old 14th May 2013, 00:48   #17
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Actually they 'can' very easily but they 'should' do it with care so as to not harm the brand & customer perception

Emission regs are unavoidable going forward. Believe me, I am no fan of Euro 6 myself. Its time to stop choking cars to death and try to focus on other/larger environmental issues.



Defenders are & have been widely used in hot & harsh conditions of Africa/Gulf and so I am certain it will take to Indian conditions like a fish to water. Besides as a military ready vehicle, it was always designed to have go-anywhere capabilities

My reasoning is as follows..... its not cheap to start with, so why not follow the G-wagen model and fill in the missing bits to make it desirable as a rugged -luxury product for western markets where the G-wagen sells
If you could turn a Land-Rover into something as well-made as a gelandewagen, that would be a triumph! The British army refused any Land-Rover with an engine later than the TDi unit - not easily repairable and not sufficiently durable was the reason I think.

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Nature has its own way of repairing itself. So environmentalist can go to hell as far as i am concern.
Nature and this planet will survive very happily no matter what we do to it - it is Man who will be the first to suffer, and eventually go under as a species. Even if you have got a lovely old Landy to take you through the floods!
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Old 14th May 2013, 10:06   #18
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

With Euro 6 coming it makes even more sense to sell the defender in India.
India is still in BS-IV, and BS-V is impossible currently due to fuel not available. So JLR can actually milk more out of the old platform in countries like India.
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Old 14th May 2013, 10:47   #19
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

A Country defender 90 can certainly give the Thar a real run for money.
It is a capable off roader, but it is not a luxury car that will take market share from a XUV 500 or Toyota Fortuner, not even the LWB COuntry defender 110.

But it has a trivia of its own. The Green badge oval holds a cult status among many brits and other ethnic groups too.

Her Majesty the Queen Elizabeth II Regina, drives it with her corgies on the back seat at Balmoral castle and other scottish hunting estates.

The SWB Defender 90 is a pretty capable off road vehicle. The Turbo diesel engine is also good. In many of my events my sweep team under the fiery marshal Rory Anderson was always there with his trusted truck body fiery red Country defender.

In India Landrover has an awesome record of trust and delivery in the 4x4 terrain of Darjeeling and the North East. There are still hundreds of them running there.

I have myself sat in / driven so many Defender 90 and 110 on many an English hunting state in Yorkshire, Middlesex, Scottish Highland bordering shoots, Lancashire, a Landy is always a pleasure experience.

However in terms of reliability and technology it is just about a notch above Mahindra.

To take on the Indian love for SUV a more appropriate product would be the Landrover Discovery in its 4th or 5th Avtaar or the LC 3.
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Old 14th May 2013, 10:48   #20
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

I don't think it would be a very viable option for TML to offer the Defender in India and expect any significant volumes.

People may love the Landy but when it comes to putting 16-20L, there's bound to be some level of rationality and if you look at the Defender's feature-set, you'll suddenly find the Storme has all the bells and whistles! Maybe I am not looking in the right place but this is where I found the following info (Link)
E.g.
a) Interior features include manually adjusting rear-view mirrors. Yes. Ain't that awesome
b) Two cup-holders. Isn't that too much?
c) Safety and security includes ABS and Immobilizer but no mention of Air-bags. Instead there are options or what they call upgrades in the form of speed-limiters!
d) It also comes with a single-din audio system. And a lot of us know how the Storme is totally incomplete without one.
e) The top speed is 90 mph and we can all imagine the pace at which it would reach that speed.

Now, keep the brand aside and think about how much would you pay for the Defender? Forget for a moment that the Landys weren't always the most reliable of the lot and that's one reason why the Landcruiser became more popular in Africa.

And let me clarify one thing, the first vehicle I ever drove was a Series-3 and I would love to own a Landy one day, but for once, I don't think the Defender brings a lot on the table for me.

On second thoughts, I hope it comes to India at whatever price and then I'll hope someone buys it for just the brand-name and realizes its lower-specced than the rather bare-bone Storme and grudgingly sells it off to me!

Till then,
Cheers,
Adi

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Originally Posted by desertfox View Post

To take on the Indian love for SUV a more appropriate product would be the Landrover Discovery in its 4th or 5th Avtaar or the LC 3.
In fact I totally agree to this. LR would make more money milking the brand with something slotted between the Storme/Aria and the Freelander which is almost a 20L window. Am sure people would pick that one any day over a Defender.

Last edited by AVR : 14th May 2013 at 10:51. Reason: Quoting Desertfox...
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Old 14th May 2013, 10:52   #21
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

The next Defender is reported to be quite good looking, and will only add to the JLR Brand.

Normally the Defender would be ranked higher than the Freelander II - so what happens to it?

It would not really take on the XUV as the proposition is quite different though in the same price point, and even it the Defender niggles till will be a lot lot more reliable than the XUV.

It would actually kind off kill the Endy, and take on the Fortuner. It would not affect the Safari due the price point. Though TATA may have to price the 4X4 VX Storme a bit better.

A good take. - In reality don't see it coming at a price lower than the Fortuner as some stuff would still be imported.
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Old 14th May 2013, 11:02   #22
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

I guess if assembled in India, the last generation dies press brought here, the LC Defender 90 with solid off road credentials and a great lifestyle vehicle can be sold in India for about Rs. 12 Lakhs.

And that will be very very interesting, for rumor is that Jeep is also coming here not with the 3.7 Petrol engine but a four cylinder diesel, which means it will also launch in India at the 12 Lackhs bracket.
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Old 14th May 2013, 11:57   #23
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

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Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
In India Landrover has an awesome record of trust and delivery in the 4x4 terrain of Darjeeling and the North East. There are still hundreds of them running there.

However in terms of reliability and technology it is just about a notch above Mahindra.
During my childhood, the Landrovers were like the Ambassadors of Darjeeling. Many memories of fume-filled rides on the LRs. Once I went down from Darjeeling to the plans standing on the rear step outside.

But they were very uncomfortable. Given a choice, one would have opted for an Amby or even one of the Maruti Omnis. Front seats were ok, but rear and middle were cramped and bumpy.

Don't think too many will sell apart from those who buy it for the cool factor or nostalgia factor.
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Old 14th May 2013, 12:04   #24
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

Today, the LC 90 is everything that a capable off roader should be in India. Through mud, slush, muddy banks, some sandy ground and rock boulders it is the vehicle.

In fact a Thar designer should take this as a reference point to design a vehicle matching the 90 absolutely.

At whatever price it is launched I will be the first person to buy not one but a pair of them.
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Old 14th May 2013, 14:57   #25
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Default Re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

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Originally Posted by AVR View Post
E.g.
a) Interior features include manually adjusting rear-view mirrors. Yes. Ain't that awesome
b) Two cup-holders. Isn't that too much?
c) Safety and security includes ABS and Immobilizer but no mention of Air-bags. Instead there are options or what they call upgrades in the form of speed-limiters!
d) It also comes with a single-din audio system. And a lot of us know how the Storme is totally incomplete without one.
e) The top speed is 90 mph and we can all imagine the pace at which it would reach that speed.
Hey Adi, as you said the interiors are nothing to boast off. I remember looking at a Defender in the factory that was fitted with an Alpine subwoofer and I was surprised to see the "premium" treatment given to this neglected baby. I was trying to look for the options on the LR website but couldn't find any. But here is a link. After all, it's not that appalling inside

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Originally Posted by AVR View Post
On second thoughts, I hope it comes to India at whatever price and then I'll hope someone buys it for just the brand-name and realizes its lower-specced than the rather bare-bone Storme and grudgingly sells it off to me!
Trust me I have been waiting for such a moment for a year now! My neighbour has a 10 year old Defender and keeps moaning about the niggling issues with it, I have jokingly and seriously told him to sell it off to me, but I guess it has grown on him now
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Old 14th May 2013, 15:07   #26
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Default Re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

It may not happen too soon.

The new DC-100 project to replace the COuntry Defender is slow, and anyway what will come out of it will be a softroader like Freelander or a direct competitor to FJ Cruiser.

Tata motors is also all set to take the Jeep route, i.e. sourcing a number of parts from China. Mr. Ratan Tata and now his prodigee Cyrus Mistry are studying plans to set up a production facility in China to produce Landrovers cheaply for a global market. Today Landrover is sod in over 140 countries, both RHD and LHD with a great potential for Army replacement orders from many countries.

It will not be less than two years that Landrover will roll out from China and in which form ? DC100 derivative or today's Defender ?

India is a ready market for Defenders if sold to match Mahindra price.

The twin cab defender pick up can give Mahindra Bolero pick up a real run for its money if built cheap in China.

Similarly LWB 110 will target the Bolero and Scorpio perhaps.

SWB 90 will be the off road vehicle of Choice and take a huge market share from Thar.

But it has to be at Mahindra price bands.
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Old 14th May 2013, 15:42   #27
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Default Re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

Guys, just a thought. JLR-TATA might not want to dilute the premium luxury car brand image that it currently carries(how many LR buyers buy them for their off-roading capability?). But Tata can use its own name for it if such is the case. In the end, if its launched with a proper price tag(Mahindra-ish as Desertfox suggested), then it will be a party time for die-hard LR lovers.
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Old 14th May 2013, 15:49   #28
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Default Re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

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Originally Posted by desertfox View Post
But it has to be at Mahindra price bands.
While I agree with most of your points and observations Shahid, on this and another thread, I would tend to disagree on this one.
Quite a significant section of the Mahindra Thar customers that I have come across in the NCR, are people would could and would EASILY pay 1.5x to 2.0x Thar's price, for a better and more capable vehicle.
Bottomline - This should definitely come to India, and offer a vastly superior product at a somewhat higher price, than the M&M stuff.
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Old 14th May 2013, 15:52   #29
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Default Re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

I am not sure if Tata would be able to pull that off. They are already in a mess themselves with their current product lineup. Trying to invest time, effort and money into bringing the Defender is going to be futile. I don't see a way in which they will be able to price the product anywhere less than 20Lakhs INR. For that money people do look for products other than the Land Rover.

For the record, the cheapest variant in the UK is over 21,000 pounds:

Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!-lr_price.jpg
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Old 14th May 2013, 15:59   #30
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Default Re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

Thats what I am saying, the cheaper Landrover will be the one made in China where everything is much cheaper, in terms of wages a worker in China gets Rs 100 a day versus Rs. 12X100X8 = Rs. 9600 in Great Britain as GBP 12 / Hr.

But getting it out of China will take a minimum of 24 to 30 months for Roll out.
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