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Old 13th May 2013, 17:27   #1
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Default Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

The current Land rover defender costs around 21000UKP in the UK. There was a thread on the possibility of the defender being made in India
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...e-india-2.html (Next gen Defender to be made in INDIA!!)

With local production, or even CKD, a land rover defender can sell for 16-17L. which will make it the cheapest land rover in India (Freelander is 28+)

However, JLR offers only the freelander and above models in India.
I understand, in initial days, they did not want to get the retro looking old school vehicle as it would undermine JLR as the ultra expensive brand, but now with that done, Tata can market the Defender.
It could be the step up from the Safari Storme segment priced 2-3L more than the storme.
Only reason I can think off is that it will severly canniblize the storme. But, think about it, it will also canniblize the XUV and Endeavor, and maybe even the Fortuner.

The land rover tag is aspirational to many, and bringing the Defender to India might as well be the masterstroke.

The future roadmap of Tata is totally empty, and with nothing after Storme in the pipeline, this could be the savior for Tata until the next platform Safari comes into existance.

So what say, do you think if Tata brings the defender to India at a price tag of 15-16L, will it sell a good number ~1000 units?
Will the off roaders pick it?
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Old 13th May 2013, 17:52   #2
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The current Land rover defender costs around 21000UKP in the UK. There was a thread on the possibility of the defender being made in India
=========

So what say, do you think if Tata brings the defender to India at a price tag of 15-16L, will it sell a good number ~1000 units?
Will the off roaders pick it?
I will agree.
Perhaps they are waiting for JEEP to launch their Wrangler?

While the cannibalisation point you made makes sense. The Land Rover brand with a slightly premium price tag(18-19'ish)should prevent it and move units as well I feel. I know many who would love to be a part of the Land Rover club but simply don't find it reasonable to pay that much money for the Freelander.

Mod Note : Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

Last edited by GTO : 14th May 2013 at 16:31. Reason: Wrangler
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Old 13th May 2013, 18:02   #3
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

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So what say, do you think if Tata brings the defender to India at a price tag of 15-16L, will it sell a good number ~1000 units?
Will the off roaders pick it?
Why Tata? JLR can market it well in India! If they can manage 15-16 L with CKD route then I'm sure There will be people to have a go with it! Be it as a aspirational or a Better offroader than Thar.
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Old 13th May 2013, 19:00   #4
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

Off-roader: Nothing can beat it, it will win hands down. If TATA/JLR can manage to sell it around 18L in India, it will be an option for serious off-roaders. How many will appreciate the stretch in budget when compared to the Thar is what will make or break it (if it ever makes to the Indian shores).

I don't think it will cannibalise the Storme, for simple reasons like image perception and driving manners. I feel the defender cannot attract the same set of buyers that a safari Storme does. It's not as comfortable or as refined by the average SUV buyer standards in India. It's a crude vehicle built with focus only on performing as an off-roader.
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Old 13th May 2013, 19:08   #5
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

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Originally Posted by dgupta View Post
Off-roader: Nothing can beat it, it will win hands down. If TATA/JLR can manage to sell it around 18L in India, it will be an option for serious off-roaders. How many will appreciate the stretch in budget when compared to the Thar is what will make or break it (if it ever makes to the Indian shores).

I don't think it will cannibalise the Storme, for simple reasons like image perception and driving manners. I feel the defender cannot attract the same set of buyers that a safari Storme does. It's not as comfortable or as refined by the average SUV buyer standards in India. It's a crude vehicle built with focus only on performing as an off-roader.
UK and India have a price parity as far as cars are concerned. Infact, made in India cars are significantly cheaper than the same car in UK.
So at 15L the defender will pull many Safari buyers, because the Storme is no monoque modern SUV. Its the tried and tested ladder on frame stuff. The defender comes with the 155bhp 2.2L ford engine now, and since its a nice common rail unit, engine refinement should be decent.
That said you are right, an ABS/ETC version at 16L with steel wheels will attract a certain class of buyer. Same as in UK it will be a niche vehicle selling 500 odd units.
As for the Thar, do not forget Thar is mostly owned by people as a second car. People who can afford to buy a lifestyle vehicle often have a budget for the second 10L sedan.
Since Thar is the only modern "JEEP" you can buy, it sells very well. So some of this crowd will move as Land rover has a far greater Aspirational value. I guess, at 16L it will effectively dampen the Wrangler even before its launch.
Now the only thing remaining is to somehow convince JLR to apply for ARAI nod for the vehicle, and start selling it!
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Old 13th May 2013, 19:26   #6
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

IIRC, the current defender series is in it's last phase in the UK also, courtesy their equivalent of CMVR etc which mandates certain safety/pedestrian friendly changes that defender will have to adhere to by 2015.

The defender has been able to just scrape past the tightening safety/emissions laws till now but fill find it difficult to adjust to the new upcoming changes.

They have mentioned that a successor to the defender is being worked on DC 100. Let's see how that pans out.

However, there is demand for the defender in other countries and it will be nice to see how the JLR group addresses the market for the defender. Their India plans could also be linked to this situation.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 13th May 2013 at 19:27.
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Old 13th May 2013, 19:32   #7
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
So at 15L the defender will pull many Safari buyers, because the Storme is no monoque modern SUV. Its the tried and tested ladder on frame stuff. The defender comes with the 155bhp 2.2L ford engine now, and since its a nice common rail unit, engine refinement should be decent.
I agree with the engine refinement bit, its a superior transmission package compared to the Storme. I am not too sure about the interior refinement of the defender. I have been driven around in one, it's by no means "great". Think of it this way, whatever you get in terms of comfort and refinement in the cabin, is good, but the point is you don't get much. On the exterior, it has a niche charm about it, love it or hate it types.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
That said you are right, an ABS/ETC version at 16L with steel wheels will attract a certain class of buyer. Same as in UK it will be a niche vehicle selling 500 odd units.
As for the Thar, do not forget Thar is mostly owned by people as a second car. People who can afford to buy a lifestyle vehicle often have a budget for the second 10L sedan.
I agree with you, 500 odd units should not be a very tough task provided the marketing and pricing is intelligent.
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I guess, at 16L it will effectively dampen the Wrangler even before its launch.
Now the only thing remaining is to somehow convince JLR to apply for ARAI nod for the vehicle, and start selling it!
Just a wild thought, I feel JLR should focus on the armed forces in India, Police, Army, Ambulance (the long 110). Hit the Mahindras where it will hurt the most
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Old 13th May 2013, 20:34   #8
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
With local production, or even CKD, a land rover defender can sell for 16-17L. which will make it the cheapest land rover in India (Freelander is 28+)

The land rover tag is aspirational to many, and bringing the Defender to India might as well be the masterstroke.

The future roadmap of Tata is totally empty, and with nothing after Storme in the pipeline, this could be the savior for Tata until the next platform Safari comes into existance.

So what say, do you think if Tata brings the defender to India at a price tag of 15-16L, will it sell a good number ~1000 units?
Will the off roaders pick it?
@copyright respective owner

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Sometime ago dec-jan this image was making rounds on internet and someone took this shot of LD in stockyard @Pune. I wonder where are they headed to.
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Old 13th May 2013, 20:47   #9
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

^This does not seem like the Pune stockyard. Its a mountain which has continuous slopes and not a flat ground like this. Its in/near chakan, right next to the highway. AFAIK.
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Old 13th May 2013, 20:54   #10
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
They have mentioned that a successor to the defender is being worked on DC 100. Let's see how that pans out.
http://www.carsuk.net/2015-land-rove...c100-ceoncept/

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257AA1000888B2
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Old 13th May 2013, 20:56   #11
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

Making it in India for the global market makes a tremendous sense. IND should really be the global source. There's no reason not to commonize the engine with the Safari.

Since they make it, might as well sell it. I see a very small market & I dont think its rugged/classic look will be appreciated by the 20L upwardly mobile customer who wants to distance himself from the millions of Boleros. The aluminum body is a big cost driver if I had to guess.

Going forward, rather than the DC100 , what they should try to do is retain the main essence of the Defender (rugged & boxy look) but add lots of subtle enhancements to make it look & feel more premium. Just like what the Mercedes has done with the G-wagen.

DC100 is a good supplement, but not a replacement.

Last edited by Mpower : 13th May 2013 at 22:09.
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Old 13th May 2013, 23:38   #12
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

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Making it in India for the global market makes a tremendous sense. IND should really be the global source. There's no reason not to commonize the engine with the Safari.

Since they make it, might as well sell it. I see a very small market & I dont think its rugged/classic look will be appreciated by the 20L upwardly mobile customer who wants to distance himself from the millions of Boleros. The aluminum body is a big cost driver if I had to guess.

Going forward, rather than the DC100 , what they should try to do is retain the main essence of the Defender (rugged & boxy look) but add lots of subtle enhancements to make it look & feel more premium. Just like what the Mercedes has done with the G-wagen.

DC100 is a good supplement, but not a replacement.
TATA bought JLR does not mean they can swap engine and technology.

Defender is definitely coming, believe me you. If not for us, but definitely for military.

As far as engine is concerned. making it so called environment friendly made it worse. They have put a puny engine in it.
where is the charm of the original Td5 engine.
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Old 13th May 2013, 23:40   #13
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post

Going forward, rather than the DC100 , what they should try to do is retain the main essence of the Defender (rugged & boxy look) but add lots of subtle enhancements to make it look & feel more premium. Just like what the Mercedes has done with the G-wagen.

DC100 is a good supplement, but not a replacement.
The thing is, the Defender is a very old product which was designed for nothing other than (upland) rural Britain, way back in the 1940s and apart from engine updates, has changed little. How they would get on in Indian heat, I have no idea - back then the product test involved little more than the designer using it to trundle to work and back! They are not reliable in the modern sense of the word, often needing a little here or there - as things used to be. Selling this as an upmarket product for 'aspirationals' in a hot environment has probably been decided as not the best idea.

Current Defenders are a shadow of their former selves - the Series 2 and 3, and County. Back then they were truly simple and properly rugged - the S2 dashboard is a thing of beauty, unlike the monstrous plastic affair with the awful switchgear used today.

If the Defender were to be made in India, then what would be great would be to use the 200TDI engine - the best of the lot, powerful, torquey and unburstable with economy also. Later engines are over-complicated. At least there is nothing which could not be easily mended, it would probably please many a garage-owner!





Last edited by FlatOut : 13th May 2013 at 23:52.
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Old 14th May 2013, 00:23   #14
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

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TATA bought JLR does not mean they can swap engine and technology.

They have put a puny engine in it.
where is the charm of the original Td5 engine.
Actually they 'can' very easily but they 'should' do it with care so as to not harm the brand & customer perception

Emission regs are unavoidable going forward. Believe me, I am no fan of Euro 6 myself. Its time to stop choking cars to death and try to focus on other/larger environmental issues.

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The thing is, the Defender is a very old product which was designed for nothing other than (upland) rural Britain, way back in the 1940s and apart from engine updates, has changed little. How they would get on in Indian heat, I have no idea - back then the product test involved little more than the designer using it to trundle to work and back! They are not reliable in the modern sense of the word, often needing a little here or there - as things used to be. Selling this as an upmarket product for 'aspirationals' in a hot environment has probably been decided as not the best idea.
Defenders are & have been widely used in hot & harsh conditions of Africa/Gulf and so I am certain it will take to Indian conditions like a fish to water. Besides as a military-ready vehicle, it was always designed to have go-anywhere capabilities and that is part of its appeal to private buyers

My reasoning is as follows..... its not cheap to start with, so why not follow the G-wagen model and fill in the missing bits to make it desirable as a rugged -luxury product for western markets where the G-wagen sells

Last edited by Mpower : 14th May 2013 at 01:03.
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Old 14th May 2013, 00:31   #15
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Default re: Land Rover Defender: Bring it here, Tata!

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Actually they 'can' very easily but they 'should' do it with care so as to not harm the brand & customer perception

Emission regs are unavoidable going forward. Believe me, I am no fan of Euro 6 myself. Its time to stop choking cars to death and try to focus on other/larger environmental issues.
They can't its right there in the deal.

Nature has its own way of repairing itself. So environmentalist can go to hell as far as i am concern.
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