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Old 12th November 2013, 10:56   #76
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by samwagon View Post
Installation of cross frame between windshield frame and targa frame to give stability for the targa band (B-pillar). The same way it has been done in the upgraded Thar. I wanted to retain the existing support for the hard part of the canopy and the clamps for the OEM part are welded into the windshield frame. I took two pieces of steel pipes cut to size and crimped at the ends. These were installed on targa band on existing bolts. On the windshield frame, these were bolted on to new holes tapped to take an 8x1.5 allen bolt. The issue of targa band wavering which caused banging of the door with the frame and caused a thud sound whenever the front wheels went into a pothole is completely solved. Yes, seriously.
Dear Samwagon - BE VERY CAREFUL. If front seat passengers are not wearing seat belts, the head may bang against the cross, causing grave injury. If mounting execution is not correct (you must use both bolt holes on the targa band, they are M8*1.25, not 1.5, also these are sealed for life screws, threads will get damaged when you remove them), targa band will crack in no time.

Dear all - principle of cross is correct but execution is completely unimaginative (fallback must have been from some CAD data, shown as a fancy presentation, with guys nodding their heads).

Most important, this part is not in sync with JEEP character!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 12th November 2013 at 10:57.
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Old 12th November 2013, 13:53   #77
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Samwagon - BE VERY CAREFUL. If front seat passengers are not wearing seat belts, the head may bang against the cross, causing grave injury. If mounting execution is not correct (you must use both bolt holes on the targa band, they are M8*1.25, not 1.5, also these are sealed for life screws, threads will get damaged when you remove them), targa band will crack in no time.

Dear all - principle of cross is correct but execution is completely unimaginative (fallback must have been from some CAD data, shown as a fancy presentation, with guys nodding their heads).

Most important, this part is not in sync with JEEP character!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dear Sir, Following submitted with due regards wrt your comments :-
(a) The cross is quite high as compared to average person's height (at least in my family) and then not wearing seat belt is also not an option in my vehicle. So even in remote possibility of people being thrown towards the front, IMO, their bodies are not going to intersect with the cross but with the dash or the windshield, which is CMVR cleared. The pipes themselves are light steel with easy bendability but for the application are suitable because of high resistance to longitudinal stretching.

(b) The M8x1.5 allen bolts i talked about were used at the windshield frame. and not Targa band. I didn't change the Targa band bolts . I agree regarding proper execution and sealed for life bolts at targa band. Have seen threads damaged in a friends MM550. So i was extra careful in removal and re-fitment(almost 90% of the stock was hand tightened).

(c) Also agree regarding unimaginative execution especially when it is an Esteemed OEM implemented solution on a new vehicle. For me it works fine becoz i dont have a budget at present for the roll bar.

(d) Jeep Character in my opinion is all about jugaads and modifications suited to the current use. Even at the cost of appearance & aesthetics. Thats how the jeeps designed for WWII were modified for civilian use including multipurpose PTOs etc. So a First Aid box secured with a strap under the dash may look uncool but it serves the purpose i.e you dont have to look all over the place, searching for it when its badly needed.
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Old 12th November 2013, 18:17   #78
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

Is the "cross" really needed here? If you welded in 3 2 inch diameter tubes, one at each door and one down the middle wouldn't you get the rigid braces you need? The tubes would also make handy hand holds for rough roads, off-roads. This way you eliminate the skull fractures and broken teeth.

Tubes would go where the yellow lines are, one over each door and one in the middle. Please hold your applause.
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My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-thar-cross-brace-2.jpg  

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Old 12th November 2013, 19:24   #79
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Is the "cross" really needed here? If you welded in 3 2 inch diameter tubes, one at each door and one down the middle wouldn't you get the rigid braces you need? The tubes would also make handy hand holds for rough roads, off-roads. This way you eliminate the skull fractures and broken teeth.

Tubes would go where the yellow lines are, one over each door and one in the middle. Please hold your applause.
What you have suggested might work. But two things against the solution suggested :-
(a) The issue is sideways movement of the targa frame and not longitudinal (front and back) movement so the cross frame is a better means to arrest the same.
(b) The welding would have involved removal of canopy and more importantly windscreen or covering it in lots of grease to save the glass.
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Old 12th November 2013, 19:31   #80
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by samwagon View Post
Dear Sir, Following submitted with due regards wrt your comments :-
(a) The cross is quite high as compared to average person's height (at least in my family) and then not wearing seat belt is also not an option in my vehicle. So even in remote possibility of people being thrown towards the front, IMO, their bodies are not going to intersect with the cross but with the dash or the windshield, which is CMVR cleared. The pipes themselves are light steel with easy bendability but for the application are suitable because of high resistance to longitudinal stretching.
.
Oh sir, if you were talking about the possibility of passengers jolted upwards and hitting the cross frame then yes point taken. I plan to wrap up the pipes with some soft padded material.
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Old 12th November 2013, 21:28   #81
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Is the "cross" really needed here?
Dear Ken - you said it perfectly, thanks. I don't have to say it now. Actually, nothing is required if the fastener size holding the sheet metal parts above the doors is changed from M6 to M8. This will provide lots of support to the windshield frame because nothing else is holding the frame now. The original bottom supports which held the frame are now used to hold the "so-called head impact test for M1 category" CMVR instrument panel . After changing the fastener size, what is required is the South Africa roll over bar, with supports going from it to the targa band, both at the top and the sides. Also add a connector member to the bottom ends of the front legs of the South Africa rollover bar. This should be done with a rectangular box section pipe of size 50.8 by 25.4mm (4" by 2"), applied vertically. This addition will do wonders to enhance body tub stability!

Dear all - the BE (Mechanical) guys among you remember your first semester subject called "Applied Mechanics"? There was a chapter called "Parallelogram of Forces" in it? Isn't it simple Kinematics? How much further I should guide? Kya yaar!

.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 12th November 2013 at 21:30.
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Old 13th November 2013, 09:31   #82
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Ken - you said it perfectly, thanks. I don't have to say it now. Actually, nothing is required if the fastener size holding the sheet metal parts above the doors is changed from M6 to M8. This will provide lots of support to the windshield frame because nothing else is holding the frame now. The original bottom supports which held the frame are now used to hold the "so-called head impact test for M1 category" CMVR instrument panel . After changing the fastener size, what is required is the South Africa roll over bar, with supports going from it to the targa band, both at the top and the sides. Also add a connector member to the bottom ends of the front legs of the South Africa rollover bar. This should be done with a rectangular box section pipe of size 50.8 by 25.4mm (4" by 2"), applied vertically. This addition will do wonders to enhance body tub stability!

Dear all - the BE (Mechanical) guys among you remember your first semester subject called "Applied Mechanics"? There was a chapter called "Parallelogram of Forces" in it? Isn't it simple Kinematics? How much further I should guide? Kya yaar!

.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sir,
You said nothing is required if fastener sizes are changed for sheet metal above the doors and then after some sentences, you say, ''after changing the fastener size, what is required is the South Africa roll over bar''. Point not understood.

I (a non BE mechanical) agree that the SA roll Bar is the best solution to arrest the targa band swaying and IMO it should have been provided in stock vehicle. However, it was not and i dont have the budget for it right now (already said earlier). So the next best thing available has been implemented at a cost of Rs 120 and damage to body is two tapped holes omn the windshield frame. An it re-iterate, the cross is doing its job pretty well.

Last edited by samwagon : 13th November 2013 at 09:35. Reason: point already answered in another post
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Old 13th November 2013, 22:39   #83
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

Might sound a lil weird but while driving my Thar for some days I observed that it is a little bent on the front left side. Got so anxious that took a thread to measure it and found that there was difference in the distance between the tyre and fendor fibre on boths sides of about 1.5 to 2 inches. The difference also existed on the rear side with left side bent by around 1 inch or so. Tyre presssure is also okay. Checked the front arm suspension also and the gap between the bump on both sides looks equal. Not too sure what the problem coul be??? Planning on taking it to workshop this Sat for an expert's eye. Any one faced this? Any thoughts around this.

FYI - My Thar is just a month old, done 1100 KM, no offroading or bumpy driving.

Would appreciate suggestions. Thanks
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Old 14th November 2013, 10:03   #84
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by rakeshmunjal View Post
Might sound a lil weird but while driving my Thar for some days I observed that it is a little bent on the front left side. Got so anxious that took a thread to measure it and found that there was difference in the distance between the tyre and fendor fibre on boths sides of about 1.5 to 2 inches. The difference also existed on the rear side with left side bent by around 1 inch or so. Tyre presssure is also okay. Checked the front arm suspension also and the gap between the bump on both sides looks equal. Not too sure what the problem coul be??? Planning on taking it to workshop this Sat for an expert's eye. Any one faced this? Any thoughts around this.

FYI - My Thar is just a month old, done 1100 KM, no offroading or bumpy driving.

Would appreciate suggestions. Thanks
Please check this link in Manveet's ownership thread, he faced same issue which is fixed now.

Last edited by Thar4x4 : 14th November 2013 at 10:04.
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Old 14th November 2013, 13:00   #85
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

Shortly I will post my own experience at two attempts once at Mahindra ASC RR Auto and the dealer's ASC Sterling Motors service to address the kich kich sound from the canopy.

Both parties have failed till date. There are no experienced personnel to address this issue.

However a Thar owner told me there is a guy in Udyog vihar who charges Rs. 200 to dismantle and Rs. 250 to put back a Thar Canopy. Plan to seek out this guy.
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Old 27th November 2013, 19:36   #86
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

Well some small new mods to do with lighting. Fixed some roof-marker lights on the front mudguards. And a couple of convoy lights (minus the hood) on the windscreen. All these lights have been fitted with 10W lamps with relay circuit. The light intensity is pretty good and the windscreen lights allow for driving without main headlights in city roads(even dark alleys).
Attached Thumbnails
My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013112700701.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013112700702.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013112700703.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013112700705.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013112700706.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013112700707.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013112700709.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013112700699.jpg  

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Old 23rd December 2013, 19:50   #87
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

Here another small but tricky mod undertaken on the Thar- Addition of a mechanical Oil Pressure Gauge.
I know it will raise a lot of questions. Firstly why - well its just that i like analog gauges on the dashboard, showing various engine parameters, just like in the automobiles of yore. Sadly it is something not seen in today's modern cars. My gypsy had no less than six gauges in addition to the stock. For the Thar, its only two as of now.

Why a mechanical one rather than a safer electrical gauge? The answer is again to do with my personal preference for seeing smoothly ticking needles on gauges as opposed to the discrete movements of the electrical gauge.

The gauge was easy to come by. I had one lying from my gypsy days in the garage somewhere. The difficult part was to locate a suitable T-joint which enables installing the existing pressure switch as well as taking a tap from the oil pressure line. I managed to locate the required joint at Mayapuri. I wish i had taken snaps before the installation.

The most difficult part was selection of the hose. The armoured rubber ones which are normally used for such oil gauges are of dubious quality and deteriorate with age. One on a friends Sierra gave way while underway and a lucky timed tea break saved the Engine. I know and understand the risks involved, so the hose part is still in the trial stage. I have selected a good quality pneumatic hose which is practically indestructible, except due to high temperatures. Plan to do a longish run to determine the temperature of the static oil column in the hose. If it goes very high (>80 deg, which i don't expect), then maybe i will try and mange some military grade hydraulic hose or buy industrial ones. The advantage of use a pneumatic hose is also that it comes with just push in connectors. No crimping required. Also, i plan to install an audio alarm for low oil pressure using the existing switch.

So far so good. Not a drop of oil leak. Temp also within limits for runs of about 50 Kms. A few snaps of the Mod, though apologies for the lazy night pics. Can share better pics if anyone is interested. And please dont try this unless you are sure of what you are doing.

The brass part is the T-joint. An existing unused grommet was used to pass the hose through the firewall.
Attached Thumbnails
My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013122300740.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013122300742.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013122300754.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013122300755.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013122300757.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013122300759.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013122300760.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013122300762.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013122300763.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013122300764.jpg  

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Old 24th December 2013, 14:20   #88
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

I had a pricol one in my MM550 and earlier in CJ3B but the rate of failure is high with these gauges.

New are available for Rs. 200 and second hand ones for Rs. 100 in Mayapuri.

I might have a few lying around will give it the kid who bought my MM550.
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Old 25th December 2013, 00:18   #89
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

@samwagon

Nice mods on your Thar very innovative, right from the installation of central locking. The OP-Gauge is very neat, you should have used a braided hose hope the one used here is off a high bursting pressure. Also a electro-mechanical combination is always prefered, As I have experienced when the line ruptures you not only loose lube oil it also messes up the interior.
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Old 25th December 2013, 18:13   #90
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by samwagon View Post
Here another small but tricky mod undertaken on the Thar - Addition of a mechanical Oil Pressure Gauge. Plan to do a longish run to determine the temperature of the static oil column in the hose. If it goes very high (>80 deg, which i don't expect), then maybe I will try and mange some military grade hydraulic hose or buy industrial ones.
Dear Samwagon - engine oil temperature will touch exactly 146 degrees C. Blue pipe will not work. Please use industrial application hydraulic hose only, otherwise you are heading for disaster! This pipe will be costly and difficult to locate but it is worth the trouble once and for all. I too like mechanical gages, I had a round thermocouple operated temperature gage in my Maruti 800, alongwith a degassing tank (I think my Maruti 800 was the only one with a degassing tank). I have these gages and degassing tanks in all my restored classic Fiats as well. If installed properly, these things will last forever and give consistently correct readings. They will give you peace of mind, especially during those full night drives on lonely highways! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 25th December 2013 at 18:18.
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