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Old 26th December 2013, 12:35   #91
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by Timson View Post
@samwagon

Nice mods on your Thar very innovative, right from the installation of central locking. The OP-Gauge is very neat, you should have used a braided hose hope the one used here is off a high bursting pressure. Also a electro-mechanical combination is always prefered, As I have experienced when the line ruptures you not only loose lube oil it also messes up the interior.
Thanks Timson for the kind words. The original plan was to use a braided automotive hose but couldn't locate a good quality one. Guess they just dont make them good enough anymore coz its hardly used. The pneumatic hose is safe as far as bursting pressure goes but i am just not comfortable on the temperature front and reaction of oil to components like o rings which were designed for pneumatic applications. This was just an experiment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Samwagon - engine oil temperature will touch exactly 146 degrees C. Blue pipe will not work. Please use industrial application hydraulic hose only, otherwise you are heading for disaster! This pipe will be costly and difficult to locate but it is worth the trouble once and for all. I too like mechanical gages, I had a round thermocouple operated temperature gage in my Maruti 800, alongwith a degassing tank (I think my Maruti 800 was the only one with a degassing tank). I have these gages and degassing tanks in all my restored classic Fiats as well. If installed properly, these things will last forever and give consistently correct readings. They will give you peace of mind, especially during those full night drives on lonely highways! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sir, i am not sure the temperature of static oil column will reach that high since its not in circulation like the rest of the oil, but point taken. I am myself not very sure of the pneumatic hose and will be repalcing with an industrial grade hose (have already located one). Will get the end connectors crimped this weekend. OT, Good to know you restore classic Fiats. I too am a fan of the ol' Fiats. Father had a 71', Best engine roar in town.
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Old 26th December 2013, 16:57   #92
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by samwagon View Post
I am not sure the temperature of static oil column will reach that high since its not in circulation like the rest of the oil, but point taken. Good to know you restore classic Fiats. I too am a fan of the ol' Fiats. Father had a 71', Best engine roar in town.
Dear Samwagon - you must take the highest temperature and design around it by building in a specific factor of safety. SAE papers are available for reference and learning, there is no need to reinvent the wheel. Please see my posts in the Vintage and Classic Cars section of this forum, you will see the details of my classic cars.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 27th December 2013, 10:38   #93
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

I remember that in both the Ambassador and our Fiat the oil pressure gauge was connected by a thin copper pipe and not a hose. The pipe is similar to the brake line pipe and the ends had similar nipples for connection.

similar pipes

http://www.amazon.com/Auto-Meter-322...120697&sr=1-19
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Old 27th December 2013, 16:36   #94
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
I remember that in both the Ambassador and our Fiat the oil pressure gauge was connected by a thin copper pipe and not a hose. The pipe is similar to the brake line pipe and the ends had similar nipples for connection.
Dear Aroy - you are correct. However, that oil pressure gage copper pipe (fitted as an accessory) was the most unreliable thing in the whole Fiat car. It used to break at the engine end in the middle of nowhere. Please do not use such contraptions at all.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 27th December 2013, 19:13   #95
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Aroy - you are correct. However, that oil pressure gage copper pipe (fitted as an accessory) was the most unreliable thing in the whole Fiat car. It used to break at the engine end in the middle of nowhere. Please do not use such contraptions at all.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sir, this contraption was considered and rejected for the Same Reason as quoted by you. The engine vibrations are too much for even the looping to handle. I also had a hybrid connection in mind, braided hose at engine end and copper pipe at the gauge end.
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Old 29th December 2013, 18:59   #96
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Samwagon - engine oil temperature will touch exactly 146 degrees C. Blue pipe will not work. Please use industrial application hydraulic hose only, otherwise you are heading for disaster!This pipe will be costly and difficult to locate but it is worth the trouble once and for all......l. If installed properly, these things will last forever and give consistently correct readings. They will give you peace of mind, especially during those full night drives on lonely highways! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dear Sir, industrial quality hose located and crimped with end connections from a std hose. Snaps below. Now I guess I can drive withh peace of mind on lonely highways.
Attached Thumbnails
My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013122900773.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2013122900774.jpg  

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Old 30th December 2013, 19:52   #97
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

Want to share an experience I had yesterday. One of my coursemates who literally breathes jeeps drove the Thar (my Thar) for a short distance and concluded that an adjustment of the brake shoes cam was in order because excessive shoe movement was causing the pedal to sink in further than normal. I personally hadn't noticed since the change would have been gradual. Well, we looked for a adjustment cam bolt as in the usual place of a 550 and it wasn't there. So opened up the drum and realised that the brake mechanism is self setting by means of a ratchet arrangement.
For the left side drum brake, the ratchet was observed to have slipped to beyond zero position thus preventing auto adjustment and causing the relatively poor braking. The point to note is that this mechanism had slipped by itself without me or anyone else having fiddled with it. Seems an inherent design problem. My advice to all users who aren't too happy with their brakes would be to give it a once over.
BTW, once everything was set in order, the braking improvement was significant. I wonder why I hadn't noticed the difference earlier. The large movement of left rear shoes must also be affecting the right discs since brake lines are cross connected.

Also, one tip which I realised later, there's a rubber grommet at the back of the brake plate which provides access to reset the self adjusting ratchet to enable smooth drum removal.

Dhabhar sir, any comments would be welcome.
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Old 2nd January 2014, 22:16   #98
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by samwagon View Post
Want to share an experience I had yesterday. One of my coursemates who literally breathes jeeps drove the Thar (my Thar) for a short distance and concluded that an adjustment of the brake shoes cam was in order because excessive shoe movement was causing the pedal to sink in further than normal. I personally hadn't noticed since the change would have been gradual. Well, we looked for a adjustment cam bolt as in the usual place of a 550 and it wasn't there. So opened up the drum and realised that the brake mechanism is self setting by means of a ratchet arrangement.
For the left side drum brake, the ratchet was observed to have slipped to beyond zero position thus preventing auto adjustment and causing the relatively poor braking. The point to note is that this mechanism had slipped by itself without me or anyone else having fiddled with it. Seems an inherent design problem. My advice to all users who aren't too happy with their brakes would be to give it a once over.
BTW, once everything was set in order, the braking improvement was significant. I wonder why I hadn't noticed the difference earlier. The large movement of left rear shoes must also be affecting the right discs since brake lines are cross connected.

Also, one tip which I realised later, there's a rubber grommet at the back of the brake plate which provides access to reset the self adjusting ratchet to enable smooth drum removal.

Dhabhar sir, any comments would be welcome.
Dear Samwagon - of course, I am delighted to comment, which goes as follows: "You are the correct candidate to join the industry, because without analyzing and without any sort of data, you have already used the cardinal words "inherent design problem"! Oh God, save me, why must I endure this torture every day?" (chill dude, I'm just kidding, OK? )!

On a serious note, please be very careful when dealing with auto adjusters, they can give you sleepless nights, I have learnt this the hard way! Remove them, thoroughly clean them and then measure the exact incremental movement (to the second decimal place) of the shaft per notch engaged. You will be surprised at the results. The liner gaps for primary and secondary liners are never equal, which many people tend to ignore. Best of luck!

As they say in engineering drawings, "if in doubt, ask"! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 2nd January 2014 at 22:17.
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Old 4th January 2014, 11:03   #99
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Samwagon - of course, I am delighted to comment, which goes as follows: "You are the correct candidate to join the industry, because without analyzing and without any sort of data, you have already used the cardinal words "inherent design problem"! Oh God, save me, why must I endure this torture every day?" (chill dude, I'm just kidding, OK? )!

On a serious note, please be very careful when dealing with auto adjusters, they can give you sleepless nights, I have learnt this the hard way! Remove them, thoroughly clean them and then measure the exact incremental movement (to the second decimal place) of the shaft per notch engaged. You will be surprised at the results. The liner gaps for primary and secondary liners are never equal, which many people tend to ignore. Best of luck!

As they say in engineering drawings, "if in doubt, ask"! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Well okay, maybe inherent design flaw was a strong word and I take it back. But the fact remains that without any external intervention and despite the careful handling of my beloved Thar, the device failed and affected something as important as braking. Just that its a bit tricky. But then I guess it must be the same one used in the numerous scorpios and boleros. In the industry that I work in, we don't believe in co-incidences and one off failures. It saves a lot of lives.

That's why I turn to you, an auto expert, to analyse what cud have made the factory fitted auto adjuster to slip on its own.
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Old 26th January 2014, 12:21   #100
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

Weekend mountain madness. Attempted to cross jalori pass but had to turn back short of narkhanda due to some tankers stuck in the snow and blocking the way. Was short of time so it was not possible to wait for the road to be cleared. Anyways its always good to be on the road especially on winding hill roads.
The good experience was only somewhat spoiled by an idiot talking on his cell who rear ended the jeep. Well he paid for his stupidity, the entire front end of his brand new I 20 disintegrated whereas damage to the jeep only a bent Stepney and foot rest, both easily straightened the very next morning by a 5 pound hammer and a pipe piece used as a jimmy.
Also lost the vulnerable number plate and shifted to the tub with a modified pulsar light to light it up.
Attached Thumbnails
My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2014011800786.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2014011800789.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2014011800792.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2014011800794.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2014011900795.jpg  

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Old 26th January 2014, 22:41   #101
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by samwagon View Post
Weekend mountain madness. ..
Wow! Enjoyed the Jeep in snow pictures however sad to see the damage. Do check the tail gate for any damage as it looks like stepney bracket has got good force to bend. Same happened with me in B to B traffic but that survived on bend foot step which is still as it is.

Number plate is looking nice, can you please share the bracket pictures. I have placed the number at same location however with vinyl on body as don't wanted to drill body.

Thanks,
Vishal
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Old 2nd February 2014, 19:44   #102
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

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Originally Posted by Thar4x4 View Post
Wow! Enjoyed the Jeep in snow pictures however sad to see the damage. Do check the tail gate for any damage as it looks like stepney bracket has got good force to bend. Same happened with me in B to B traffic but that survived on bend foot step which is still as it is.

Number plate is looking nice, can you please share the bracket pictures. I have placed the number at same location however with vinyl on body as don't wanted to drill body.

Thanks,
Vishal
Thanks Visual, yeah I took care of the tailboard too. Since a used a 1.5 inch pipe to jimmy the Stepney bracket back to shape, it applied the force in exactly the opposite way as the one applied during the crash, so the bracket along with the tail gate metal went back to almost original position. Also, the whole tailboard was removed and aligned properly so that now it closes even batter than before.
Regarding, the number plate,the left side bolt uses the existing hole of the reflector (which was removed) and thus only a small hole had to be drilled on the right side. I also thought of using double tape but my previous experience has shown that the plate keeps falling off every few months. The pulsar plate light is screwed on to an acrylic sheet piece which is stuck on the plate at the back. So no holes in the body for that.

One more thing since I remembered you mentioning about spacers used in your rear wheels. Do you still have them, and if yes are they for sale. Can work out the price on pm. Also pics would help please. I want to refit the stock rims back and sell off my alloys but need the spacers with the stock rims at the rear to match track width.
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Old 6th February 2014, 19:22   #103
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

I had been to Def Expo today. Met the guy in Mahindra, in charge of defence vehicles. As per him, the AXE is almost dead. As of now they are concentrating on Marketing Scorpio 4x4 armoured version to paramilitary and Army as replacement for Rakshak vehicles (earlier Marshal platform) for use in CI ops. No plans for militarised version of Thar for filling MM550 gap for regular army use.

Last edited by samwagon : 6th February 2014 at 19:23.
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Old 18th April 2014, 18:15   #104
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

An update about some more small mods undertaken over the last couple of months.
a) Changed back to the stock steel rims because I wasn't happy with the way the negative offset alloys at the front were throwing muck all over the body. Plus I wasn't comfortable about the way, increase in front track was affecting the suspension and steering geometry. That and the fact that somehow the shiny alloy wheels were giving the jeep a kind of blingy look which I wasn't too keen on. So OLX was handy the alloys were picked up by a Safari owner at 12k bucks.

b) The difference between front and rear trackwidth was still an irritant especially now with the stock rims making the rear end look funny. So to address the problem I got spacers manufactured by a machinist under personal supervision(5 hrs spent in his dingy shop). The drawings and measurements were my own. The spacers and new studs all in all costed me 3300 bucks. I am quite happy with the result. And yes, for now I am taking my chances what with the SFRA, single bearing, increased scrub radius et all.
c) With the summers approaching, another mod was covering of the insides of the rear canopy with white insulation (hit-lon) material and the covering it all up with roof liner material. Labour used was self and cost of materials came to Rs 600. The improvement in AC efficiency is easily appreciable as most of the losses were from the rear canopy top.
d) And lastly, a purely aesthetic mod was painting of the vertical section of the footboards in matt black. I originally wanted to remove them and replace with MM550 type footrests but the catcon visibility spoils the look and that's why I retained them. Don't want to invest in ASC or aftermarket rocksliders as they are unjustifiably priced. Will design and get some fabricated at a later date time permitting.

Another mod that I am itching to do but haven't figured out yet is how to improve the throw of the AC vents. The stock units especially the centre one are putrid. A friend of mine threw out the stock one. Filed away some clearances and inserted AC vents from an old Maruti 800. The results are encouraging but I didn't like the fit and finish so am still contemplating how to do it better. Any ideas or experiences are most welcome. Now for the snaps.
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Old 18th April 2014, 18:21   #105
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Default Re: My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications

Sorry mods was unable to attach pics from my phone with the previous post. You may please merge the pics with the previous post.
Attached Thumbnails
My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2014041801284.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2014041801285.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2014041801286.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2014041801287.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2014041801288.jpg  

My li'l Red Mahindra Thar with some practical modifications-img2014041801289.jpg  

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