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Old 16th December 2016, 18:35   #151
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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5) Diffs are said to be "water wading ready" though the tech person could not explain what this really meant.
Probably refers to diff breathers, which most offroaders install on their diff.

The force motors web still refers to the old Mater Gurka with BS3 engine.
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Old 16th December 2016, 20:34   #152
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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...As a pure offroader, no Mahindra / Tata / Pajero / Fortuner comes close. This thing is unreal...
umm.. apart from the fact that it offers diff-locks, whats more to it?
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Old 17th December 2016, 10:58   #153
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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1) As a pure offroader, no Mahindra / Tata / Pajero / Fortuner comes close. This thing is unreal.
This is untrue. The stock gurkha is actually only an average off-roader. if you follow the Indian off-road scene. Thars and even the older 540s are doing just fine. In fact no one ever brings a stock gurka to any of the extreme off-road events in the country. The excess wight and under powered engine is a major disadvantage off-road. The RFC Gurkha has has only a few things in common with the civilian Gurkha such as body, dash, axis, etc. The powertrain, suspension and steering is completely different.

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2) The boxy G-wagen cum Defender shape is a welcome change from the overdone jeep thing that Mahindra has never been able to get right
anyway. Boxy dimensions with huge glass areas also help all-round visibility.
I wouldn't' call the Thar ugly by any stretch of imagination. It still maintains the CJ5 looks to a large extend. Unlike the Gurkha with a pushup bra in front.

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3) The truck-like rake angle & size of the steering wheel is fun and comfortable. Gives a sense of occasion every time you drive it.
Try driving it in the hills and you will see it is a pain as you have to stretch around the steering wheel. I am surprised they haven't addressed this major flaw.

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5) The hideous front face of the previous version has been dialled back to a more contemporary style and looks much better. Round headlamps have been retained, laying to rest those rumours about rectangular units.
Glad better sense prevailed at Force. The damn thing was hideous.

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6) The combination of rear coil-overs (previously leafs), a lighter, box-section chassis (previously tubular), and CRDI has led to unprecedented improvements in NVH levels.
Gurkha fan's will jump off the cliff if they hear that the Gurkha no longer has a Tubular chasis. If the Gurkha fans were to be believed, the tubular chasis was supposedly a major advantage Gurkha has over it's competitors.

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7) CRDI gives it a slightly bigger punch as well. Low speed torque was never a problem for this engine, but now there is an improvement in the top end as well. Top speed has increased from 123 to 148 kmph (as mentioned by the tech department, not tested by me).
Any idea on the CC & power specs? The Gurkha needs atleast 110+ bhp & 26 kgm Torque to lug it's weight around. I hope it will not come with 85 bhp engine again.

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9) The clutch is a big improvement and the gearshift pattern is now of the conventional double-H type (previously dog-leg first) so a newbie won't accidentally go in reverse when trying to engage first.
Looks like they are using a different gearbox.

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11) Despite being a crdi, it still retains some charm of an older-style engine. For example, the ECU is programmed to add power when it senses load so you don't need to play with the throttle pedal even when going up steep inclines.
All CRDe engines have this anti-stall feature.

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3) Rear seats are side-facing in the interests of easier rear entry. I preferred the earlier setup of front-facing rear seats with entry via the front passenger side.
This is sad. The front facing back seat was a major advantage Gurkha had over the Thar. I suppose one can retrofit the folding front seat and make the rear front facing.

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Originally Posted by vivekjayasheel View Post
5) Diffs are said to be "water wading ready" though the tech person could not explain what this really meant.
It means a rubber tube of the axle breather taken a foot or so above. He almost makes it sound like rocket science. Wonder why he is called the Tech person .

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To conclude, India finally has a home-grown, battle-ready offroader / expedition vehicle that even I would love to buy and own. Will do so as soon as I can afford one. I could never really say that about any Tata / Mahindra :-)
Oh Well. Here we go again.. back to the drawing board only to come back 5 years later.
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Old 18th December 2016, 21:24   #154
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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This is untrue. The stock gurkha is actually only an average off-roader. if you follow the Indian off-road scene. Thars and even the older 540s are doing just fine. In fact no one ever brings a stock gurka to any of the extreme off-road events in the country. The excess wight and under powered engine is a major disadvantage off-road.
Maybe that he is speaking about the updated BS-iv Gurkha with more power. The specs being unknown, has to be in the ball park of 120bhp thereabouts for this to be true, hoping it is!
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Old 19th December 2016, 08:48   #155
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The specs being unknown, has to be in the ball park of 120bhp thereabouts for this to be true, hoping it is!
True dat. Anything less that 110 to 120 bhp and 26 to 30 kgm Torque and it will be dead on arrival again only to go back to the drawing board for the release of the next version 5 years later.

The funny thing about this vehicle is that only the people who dont' own one praise it and the people who own one hardly praise it :-).

Last edited by 4x4addict : 19th December 2016 at 08:49.
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Old 19th December 2016, 10:05   #156
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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True dat. Anything less that 110 to 120 bhp and 26 to 30 kgm Torque and it will be dead on arrival
Hopefully its the OM611 as they already have it in the Traveller (TD 2200).
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Old 11th January 2017, 13:18   #157
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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This is untrue. The stock gurkha is actually only an average off-roader. if you follow the Indian off-road scene. Thars and even the older 540s are doing just fine. In fact no one ever brings a stock gurka to any of the extreme off-road events in the country. The excess wight and under powered engine is a major disadvantage off-road. The RFC Gurkha has has only a few things in common with the civilian Gurkha such as body, dash, axis, etc. The powertrain, suspension and steering is completely different.
I wasn't referring to the RFC gurkha either, LOL. But the stock gurkha comes with the single-minded approach of being an offroader over everything else. I find that refreshing. Unlike the Fortuner, Pajero, Thar that seem more comfortable onroad. Again, speaking from my limited experience driving stock vehicles only. Also in the words of a friend who owns a safari, used pajero, thar, and the prev-gen Gurkha: "Gurkhas break less often."

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I wouldn't' call the Thar ugly by any stretch of imagination. It still maintains the CJ5 looks to a large extend. Unlike the Gurkha with a pushup bra in front.
I am sorry but I would. For the Mahindras to be perfect, they should have a longer bonnet and a shorter windscreen and overall height above the window sill. Also bigger wheel-wells and tyres. The second and third things are the most common changes people make around here if they want to really ape the Wrangler in looks.

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Try driving it in the hills and you will see it is a pain as you have to stretch around the steering wheel. I am surprised they haven't addressed this major flaw.
Most heavy vehicles seem to have these ergos without fatigue issues. For me a vehicle's ride and handling both on and off road, plays a bigger part in overall comfort. I have to say the new Gurkha excels at this. The compromise between pliancy and roll-control is the best among all vehicles. For pure on-road use, I'd prefer the Fortuner / Thar mainly because of their road-car engines.

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Glad better sense prevailed at Force. The damn thing was hideous.
I agree.

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Gurkha fan's will jump off the cliff if they hear that the Gurkha no longer has a Tubular chasis. If the Gurkha fans were to be believed, the tubular chasis was supposedly a major advantage Gurkha has over it's competitors.
Any perceived loss of articulation is more than adequately compensated for by the slightly larger profile tyres and of course the locking diffs. Again this is amateur speak, not coming from someone who's spent half his life flogging some hapless mahindra. Stock for stock, in the hands of an amateur, there is NOTHING else that offroads as effortlessly as this beast. I agree that for some this might actually be a bad thing. For me, it is not. I have neither the time, nor the inclination to run behind jeep garages and builders to build a perfect offroader.

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Any idea on the CC & power specs? The Gurkha needs atleast 110+ bhp & 26 kgm Torque to lug it's weight around. I hope it will not come with 85 bhp engine again.
Haha as Jeremy Clarkson once said, there is no such thing as too much power. Sadly, the Gurkha in its BS-IV avatar only gets 94 hp and 240 NM of torque. But there has been weight-loss over the previous model due to the lighter yet stiffer chassis and wheels. The gearing is also better suited to the powerplant than it was in the earlier model. For me, a slight lack of balls-out power is anyway not an issue on an offroader. Having said that, a top-speed of 140 kmph and more importantly, a peak torque figure reached at 1700 rpm, is good enough for me.

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Looks like they are using a different gearbox.
Could be. This one had a notchy shift into second. The co. guy attributed it to being a new vehicle. I hope that is true, because in most offroad situations, the shift from 1st to 2nd is the most critical and should therefore be most effortless.

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All CRDe engines have this anti-stall feature.
Again, not my experience. The thar stalls on inclines unless the throttle is feathered at the very least. Probably because peak torque starts 500 rpm higher than that of the Gurkha's engine. The MM550 is better in this regard but overall power and torque figures are too low for it to have any fighting chance in the crazy stuff. Again, I know in the hands of a seasoned driver, the vehicle's capabilities are almost secondary, but I am no seasoned driver.

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This is sad. The front facing back seat was a major advantage Gurkha had over the Thar. I suppose one can retrofit the folding front seat and make the rear front facing.
True. If I ever buy one, this is the first change I will make.

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It means a rubber tube of the axle breather taken a foot or so above. He almost makes it sound like rocket science. Wonder why he is called the Tech person .
haha yes, most of them are noobs. I asked them why is the wading depth only 40 inches when the snorkel is almost 6+ feet in the air. And if there is a way to increase wading depth if some loose ends were fixed up. They had no answer.

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Oh Well. Here we go again.. back to the drawing board only to come back 5 years later.
Sadly true maybe. Not for any deficiency on part of the product, but just that it is not being promoted well. But their export order book is full so they are not complaining either.
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Old 11th January 2017, 23:16   #158
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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"Gurkhas break less often."
Since hardly anyone buys the Gurkha and hardly any come to off-road events, I guess all kinds of claims can be made about this vehicle.




Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekjayasheel View Post
Any perceived loss of articulation is more than adequately compensated for by the slightly larger profile tyres and of course the locking diffs. Again this is amateur speak, not coming from someone who's spent half his life flogging some hapless mahindra
You need to follow the off-road scene which is not active in most parts of India to see happless Mahindra and Invincible Gurkha in action off-road.

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Originally Posted by vivekjayasheel View Post
Haha as Jeremy Clarkson once said, there is no such thing as too much power. Sadly, the Gurkha in its BS-IV avatar only gets 94 hp and 240 NM of torque. But there has been weight-loss over the previous model due to the lighter yet stiffer chassis and wheels.
Guess we will know once it comes to the market, but I feel for a hard top vehicle it is definitely on the lower side.


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Originally Posted by vivekjayasheel View Post
For me, a slight lack of balls-out power is anyway not an issue on an offroader.
120 bhp and about 26kgm Torque is not balls out power by any stretch of imagination. Ask any true off-roader in this country and they will tell you that more power/torque helps in scenarious where you need to build up momentum required in certain off-road conditions.

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Having said that, a top-speed of 140 kmph and more importantly, a peak torque figure reached at 1700 rpm, is good enough for me.
I would be happy with top speed of 120 but the question is how many years it takes to get there.


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Originally Posted by vivekjayasheel View Post
Again, not my experience. The thar stalls on inclines unless the throttle is feathered at the very least.
Definitely not.


I am sure you hate the Thar, but I am almost certain that you will not dare to plonk 12 lakhs on the road for a Gurkha. There are two users who have owned the Gurkha for a whie and given a unbiased view of the vehicle. Read the reviews before you plonk any money on this vehicle. The export order for Gurkha is pure hog wash. Can you ask them to where it is exported??

The beauty of Gurkha Fans is that all the support for the vehicle comes with the keyboard than the wallet

Last edited by 4x4addict : 11th January 2017 at 23:22.
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Old 12th January 2017, 16:02   #159
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

LOL whatever makes you think I hate the Thar? A scorpio's engine in a vehicle that weighs 300 kilos less than a scorpio? And that nice midrange that embarrasses most premium hatchbacks? If I wanted something that saw less than 30% mild to moderate offroad use and the rest of it onroad, the Thar would be my vehicle of choice, NOT even the scorpio / safari / pajero / fortuner / duster / terrano. After aforementioned tyre, shackle-lift, and other minor mods of course.

I say "hapless" mahindra because by the time the thing (Thar / 550 / 540 / classic / cj / high-bonnet / low-bonnet / no-bonnet) reaches an offroad event (and quite often afterward as well), so much time, effort, money, tension is spent in prepping, sprucing, repairing it, to ME it makes the whole exercise kinda pointless. Stock Mahindras depreciate mechanically with alarming alacrity and like old land rovers, require exponentially higher amounts of care with each passing year and the customary "rebuild-from-the-ground-up" every half-decade. No, I've never had the guts to own one but I live bang opposite to two of Pune's oldest and most (ill-)reputed jeep garages so I do have a fair idea of what goes with amateur Mahindra ownership. Some lessons can be learnt from other people's experiences also. Especially the painful ones, LOL! I did have an MG410 in my college days and it ran like a swiss watch for the 7 odd years I had it. Even in my most recent tryst with a gypsy king, in 2013 (Kashmir - Ladakh) the only sore point was lack of creature comfort. If that can be ignored, my search for an offroad capable, low-maintenance vehicle ends right there.

All my wrenching desires were quenched by my RD-350 so my subsequent vehicle choices (a Husqvarna SM610 and the last of the non-electronic Fireblades - 2007) have been influenced by ease of maintenance as the primary ownership attribute.

Why the Gurkha seems more appealing to me than a Mahindra is firstly because Tempo / Force, in my view is a more trustworthy manufacturer than Mahindra. How Mahindra scrimps on small costs is common knowledge - for example choosing to assemble the axles they receive from Spicer instead of getting them pre-assembled to a much higher quality like Tata does, among other things. Secondly, the Gurkha seems to be a more "complete" platform to build upon even for those gents who like to wade through a meter of slush or climb near-vertical rock-walls in their offroaders. No need to spend on fancy lockers, or a hard-top, or a snorkel, for starters.

Anyway, there is a world of people out there who are not on T-BHP, some of whom can't even articulate in English, who look at offroad capable vehicles as more than something to flash and bash at Gokak or Palar (no offence intended to genuine offroad gurus like Arka / Shuben who have always listened to and answered my inane queries patiently since 2010). IMHO, for those, the familiarity of the OM611 and inherent robustness of Force products are probably more important. Just recently, making a quick dash towards Karnataka, I was astounded by how many Trax's and older Tempo vehicles are still in service in smaller towns like Solapur, Bijapur, Gulbarga etc.

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Old 12th January 2017, 21:04   #160
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

latest development Gurkha would be coming in
two wheel base options - 2400 & 2750
Door options - 2 door & 4 door (not yet confirmed)
Two roof options - hard top & soft top
Two engine options - 2650 & 2000 CRDI (TD 2200 still not confirmed)
Two axles - Independent & Rigid
Two chassis - Tubular & C in C (tubular to continue for BS4 not yet confirmed)

Shall update as I get more info
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Old 14th January 2017, 00:49   #161
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latest development Gurkha would be coming in
two wheel base options - 2400 & 2750
Door options - 2 door & 4 door (not yet confirmed)
The long wheel base sounds interesting. As of now no real competition in this segment except for the Bolero which is hardly any competition.

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Two engine options - 2650 & 2000 CRDI (TD 2200 still not confirmed)
Where is the 2.0 from. I think they may have dipped into the Sonalika Rhino parts bin just like Chevy did to meet BS IV.

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Shall update as I get more info
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Old 16th January 2017, 21:03   #162
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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The funny thing about this vehicle is that only the people who dont' own one praise it and the people who own one hardly praise it :-).
I'll tell you why; sheer, incredible street presence!

After a span of almost 5 years, I saw a Gurkha in today morning. We were both going the same direction and I followed it for some 15 minutes. It was fun to watch the reaction of the other riders/drivers and people waiting in the bus stops. My Punto had a tough time keeping pace with the Gurkha - not because of power, but of limited visibility.

My last sighting of this super-elusive vehicle (they should have named it Yeti or Bigfoot, ) was in 2012 March.

I am not an off-roader even for a moment, and I don't think I'll ever be. So kindly count me out from the tech discussion that's going on here. But if you want to dominate the road for a budget price this is the vehicle that you should consider. I also own a big Mahindra and it cannot hold a candle to this vehicle as far as head-turning/eye-popping factors are concerned.

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Old 16th January 2017, 22:03   #163
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I'll tell you why; sheer, incredible street presence!

After a span of almost 5 years, I saw a Gurkha in today morning. We were both going the same direction and I followed it for some 15 minutes. It was fun to watch the reaction of the other riders/drivers and people waiting in the bus stops. My Punto had a tough time keeping pace with the Gurkha - not because of power, but of limited visibility.

My last sighting of this super-elusive vehicle (they should have named it Yeti or Bigfoot, ) was in 2012 March.

I am not an off-roader even for a moment, and I don't think I'll ever be. So kindly count me out from the tech discussion that's going on here. But if you want to dominate the road for a budget price this is the vehicle that you should consider. I also own a big Mahindra and it cannot hold a candle to this vehicle as far as head-turning/eye-popping factors are concerned.
I saw a Gurkha on road for the first time this weekend, and was thoroughly unimpressed by the road presence. Even on sheer looks, I'd choose a Thar over the Gurkha anyway. Point being, looks are subjective.

On another note, in my experience of owning a Thar, And having met and spoken to a lot of Thar owners - it is immensely reliable if treated with care and respect. It is (a) the outlandish mods, and (b) the foolhardy notion that it is unbreakable and the consequent callous treatment meted to it is what causes damage.
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Old 28th January 2017, 15:41   #164
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On another note, in my experience of owning a Thar, And having met and spoken to a lot of Thar owners - it is immensely reliable if treated with care and respect. It is (a) the outlandish mods, and (b) the foolhardy notion that it is unbreakable and the consequent callous treatment meted to it is what causes damage.
Sadly, the gently-driven, bone-stock Thar CRDe my friend owns (regarding which I have a couple times recounted my uninspiring drive in Kinnaur), has been one headache after another for my poor friend almost from day one... And Tbhp's own Dirty Dan is going to strongly disagree with your assessment of reliability if he should happen upon this thread again...

For the sake of argument accepting your proposition, I'd still have to ask: What good is a Jeep that has to be treated with care/respect...???!!! From its origins in WWII and onwards, the Jeep became legendary specifically in its ability to withstand abuse and relative neglect, and still keep going!

That said, whether the Gurkha will end up being any better is anyone's guess.

-Eric
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Old 28th January 2017, 21:45   #165
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Meanwhile, my cousin's Gurkha, which was bought in the same month as my GV, is still around. Both our vehicles will completing a decade later this year. He takes it to occasional offroad trips, but it is his daily drive in Bangalore now. He says his service bill came to ₹3.8K + oil.
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