Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Fancy name coined by a Marketing guy whose previous job was selling toothpaste and whose only experience with 4x4 is the 4x4 sticker on his Maruti 800.

I think you misunderstood them
It means after engaging 4x4 you will go X4 times to the workshop to get the hoses fixed.
Seriously, bent hoses. That is a new low in QC. I mean, this cannot even be passed on as "due to costs cutting".
What will they say?
"To save cost of transport in moving AC and PS fluids, we put a bend in the pipe" ?

[wild child]

Hi Guys

4x4x4 stands for 4x4 in all 4 seasons

W_C

[sandeepmohan]

To me it sounds more like a marketing thing about the Mercedes derived gearbox. From what you experienced, there is nothing Mercedes about it.

Surprised that the temperature shot up. The lack of the aux fan can't be the reason for this. The purpose of the aux fan should be for the condenser. The lack of it explains poor cooling, apart from the bent refrigerant pipes.

What was Force thinking when they decided to build the Gurkha. Do they really think we are a bunch of fools to put our money on something so poorly engineered.

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

Surprised that the temperature shot up. The lack of the aux fan can't be the reason for this. The purpose of the aux fan should be for the condenser. The lack of it explains poor cooling, apart from the bent refrigerant pipes.

The lack of the fans do indeed cause a lot of problems.
Last week, the electrical relay for actuating those extra fans, failed in my Gurkha and my vehicle started over-heating in even 15-20 km city drives.
But, after I have replaced the relay, everything is fine and the engine runs at a very normal and safe temperature zone. The additional fans create a ram air effect, in slow speed or when stationary and help the condenser in doing it's work properly. I don't fully understand how it relates, so quickly, with the function of the radiator though, and lack of the fans cause the vehicle to heat up when running AC.

Why Force Motors cannot fit these 2 simple fans, is an entirely separate debate, and one that can only be blamed on their overall incompetence and apathy.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by roy_libran

The lack of the fans do indeed cause a lot of problems.
and one that can only be blamed on their overall incompetence and apathy.

To me it sounds more like a under sized radiator fitted to this vehicle. The engine should stay within safe limits of temperature even if the additional fans are not working. The only impact with the additional fans not working should be lack of aircon cooling.

Does the radiator have a electric fan or is the cooling fan run off the engine?

Does it over heat if you don't have air conditioning running?

The quality of vehicles Force are now manufacturing, are pathetic. I have kept a close eye on this Traveller that does a routine run on my street. It was absolutely quiet when it was new. Its been four months now and its a completely different story. The amount of drive train noise has to be heard. It feels like everything is vibrating. I've heard the engine too. It no longer sounds like the old Traveller, sounds more like the old Matador engine.

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

To me it sounds more like a under sized radiator fitted to this vehicle. The engine should stay within safe limits of temperature even if the additional fans are not working. The only impact with the additional fans not working should be lack of aircon cooling.

Does the radiator have a electric fan or is the cooling fan run off the engine?

Does it over heat if you don't have air conditioning running?

The quality of vehicles Force are now manufacturing, are pathetic. I have kept a close eye on this Traveller that does a routine run on my street. It was absolutely quiet when it was new. Its been four months now and its a completely different story. The amount of drive train noise has to be heard. It feels like everything is vibrating. I've heard the engine too. It no longer sounds like the old Traveller, sounds more like the old Matador engine.

1. I'm not sure whether the radiator is large enough for the engine and application. However, without AC, this engine rarely (almost never) heats up. Even after spending hours in summer afternoon off-roading the engine stays in it's normal temperature range, as it would during city driving.

2. It never heats up without Air Conditioning.

3. Don't think for a moment, that the Gurkha suffers from gross mechanical failures. There wouldn't be cases of damaged suspension, damaged axles, CV joints etc etc. The problems are relatively minor but recurring and irritating.

[tsk1979]

You know what. I just went through the pictures again. I am aghast. Totally Aghast.
I have seen older Gurkhas, and they may be crude, but they are vehicles.


This is a jugaad. its like it was built by a program manager and not R&D.
They have gotten parts from here and there and just welded together some contraption.

Look at the Chassis welds!!!

So the new Gurkha is supposed to be a better machine, but what we get is a much worse vehicle. while most manufacturers put forward an improved version, here you have a demoted version of something.

Based on the overall sales attitude and the quality of this vehicle, I can conclude that the Gurkha is more like a hobby project to Force. Lets assemble some jugaad together and see how much we sell.

I never expected dabwali/mayapuri quality in a factory built production vehicle.
People who already own the old Gurkha, please guys, do not sell your old Gurkha. That is a vehicle, this is a jugaad

[Fx14]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Will update after I get my hands on the *updated* version due for Sept Launch.

If they are addressing the issues due to which actual launch / delivery was delayed till Sept as quoted, strange that they are inviting negative reviews by providing the vehicle with the flaws identified for test drives.

They are putting off prospective customers as well as ensuring negative news percolates further.

[Kandisa]

IIRC Doc Mohan, one of the noted Gurkha owners, overall had a more or less positive impression (except one or two major points) on the new Gurkha when he was offered test drive few months ago by Force. Also looking at the fact that Force has opted to be the title sponsor of the inaugural RFC India event, there seems to be some positive attitude from the company for this vehicle. Wonder why these bits of optimisms are somehow not falling in line with the negative verdict.
In any case 'jugaad' is not a bad thing if done properly and the biggest example is THAR which is a product made out of existing Mahindra components picked up from here and there. Fingers crossed till getting the chance to experience the vehicle in September, if at all that is the timeline Force sticks to.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by roy_libran

I'm not sure whether the radiator is large enough for the engine and application.

What is used to bring down water temperature? An electric radiator fan or fan running off the engine drive belt which means fan rpm varies based on throttle input.

Its not about reliability alone, I think the Gurkha will age real quick due to suspect mechanical components.

[bikertillidie]

4x4addict - Thanks for concise review. It seems someone somewhere lost the plot completely.

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

First and foremost thanks for the short and sweet review.I am thoroughly disappointed with the way Force has put together the Gurkha.It seems they are not taking the market seriously.I had high expectations from the Gurkha which just went down the drain.I guess the old model performed much better than the new one.

Agreed.

[vineshpikale]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

In 2008 I booked a Gurkha and was promised...

...company like Force Motors. I am still willing to take another test drive after dealer has had time to sort the other niggles before I completely write it off,

Force Motors isn't exactly going to win over fans with this approach. When I initially saw the Gurkha images i thought it would evolve into a capable and reliable off roader giving depth to the budget 4x4 market. Based on what we see here it will probably get relegated to a non entity very quickly.

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

What is used to bring down water temperature? An electric radiator fan or fan running off the engine drive belt which means fan rpm varies based on throttle input.

Its not about reliability alone, I think the Gurkha will age real quick due to suspect mechanical components.

The fan is coupled with the engine, not electric.
My Gurkha is 6 years old and still good enough to do a 3700 km trip. To me, that is a decent enough ageing. Let's see if the new one holds up as well, instead of jumping to conjectures and conclusions.

[desertfox]

Dissapointing. THis vehicle is an absolute non starter.

Awkward steering position - you need very good steering offroad.
Terrible gear box and gear lever position
Crude finish
Engine overheating - this is the biggest negative issue overall. Even the Hummer H3 failed because of this, offroad this could be disaster.
Poor quality of rubber hoses, capillaries, lining - not acceptable.
Very basic just a cooler kind of AC as in Bolero - very outdated. The customer demands better unless it is aftermarket fitted.
Poor ergonomics.

Add to it - less numbers sold so terrible parts inventory and supply chain
Poor service

Its an absolute NO GO!

So the monopoly of Thar remains.

Bajaj Tempo are better off selling their 14 seater bus and Toofan Cruiser or whatever ghoda gaddi.

No excitement or addition to 4x4 market at all.

I dont think the engine and gearbox are matched well, high on torque but low on delivery and lag.

A friend of mine Rahul Roy has been driving this older version since 2007, never impressed except that it was a 4WD with an A/C that attracted me but then came other 4x4 vehicles with AC.

[Parm]

Thanks for the detailed explanation on the 4x4x4, the product shows how SERIOUS FM is about its product.

Happiest person in this thread = Beloved Bawa Ji.
Most disappointed person in this thread = Shahid (DesertFox) + Tini

Still Thar remains the most desired 4x4 vehicle in this category and no challenger so far.