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Old 17th July 2014, 20:42   #46
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Default re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Very nice article, short but detailed. The strengths of the Gurkha have been talked about many a times in various reviews and forums. But it is the little flaws like bent PS pipe or AC pipe can make the ownership experience a nightmare. Thanks for sharing the details.
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Old 17th July 2014, 22:30   #47
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Default re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Was this vehicle not part of the test batch that Force made to send across dealers for limited customer testing?
This vehicle was launched at the last auto expo an some dealers even began taking bookings. I was not told about this being some gunea pig vehicle.

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So, how much is this review and the follow up dissection of a pre production model going to help?
YOu mean after the launch, the pre-production model is being tested. If you see the issues, I highlighted, some of it has to do with design and not pre-production. I think when you see the launch in Sept you will see that it is pretty much the same vehicle. I too hope it will be different but then again we are talking about Force Motors here.

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It will keep a certain section of the crowd in glee, that's for sure.
So you feel it is not right if certain section of the crow point out flaws in a vehicle?? No one should critisize the Gurkha?? It is Holy bread? This is the kind emotional response that Gurkha fans are able to give in support of the vehicle.

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But no matter how much bashing you give for looks and minor glitches, you cant deny the fact that the base vehicle Engineering is sound, and critical components are not Jugaad, unlike our real "Jeep" looking Thar.
Can you please elaborate on the sound engineering?

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But "Real" offroaders know that A/C vent position, and front grille looks is what really makes it a "Real" offroader, right?
Cheers
Real off-roades don't need a 10 lakh vehicle. If you have ever ventured into the off-road scene in India, then you may have noticed that they are doing just fine with various iterations of the CJ and Gypsies. The Gurkha is meant to target someone who wants a good all round vehicle. For off-road alone, no point in spending 10 lakhs for a vehicle that will not complete most of the competition events in India..

Guys like you are always harping on the so called off-road/macho/who needs air-con/i am tough guy/engineering of the Gurkha, I wanted to give a perspective to some who plans to use it as a daily vehicle.

Listen man, if Force makes some effort, I will buy this vehicle, but I am not willing to spend 10 lakhs for the way it is now.

Last edited by 4x4addict : 17th July 2014 at 22:33.
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Old 17th July 2014, 23:59   #48
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Default re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Listen man, if Force makes some effort, I will buy this vehicle, but I am not willing to spend 10 lakhs for the way it is now.
You're one of the few who actually bought one, brand new from showroom.
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Old 18th July 2014, 00:06   #49
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Default re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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You're one of the few who actually bought one, brand new from showroom.
True mate. Unlike most of the armchair fans, I actually cut a check, but now with the choices around, I don't think I will do it again, unless Force makes a genuine effort to make a decent product.

How many of these so called fan boys would actually buy the vehicle, except for the few guys who own it and give genuine feedback.
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Old 18th July 2014, 09:26   #50
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Default re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Dear 4x4addict,

I was surprised to come across a review of the "2014" Gurkha because last I heard they were to Re-re launch the Gurkha in September. (4x4x4 or 6x6x6 or 7x7x7, I'm not sure)

However; As I read your review, it seemed to be familiar, that I had read it somewhere and the pictures seemed familiar too.

So, just to answer the niggling question to myself , I searched through the older Gurkha threads and found this

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3128515 (Force Gurkha on sale again. Launched @ 6.25 Lakhs)

I have realised that you reposted a review that you posted over an year ago, claiming that its a 2014 vehicle whereas its very clear that its a 2013 vehicle .

Disclaimer : I am an armchair Off-Roader, I have followed the Thar threads and other 4x4 vehicle threads for long in team-bhp and yes, I do not own a CJ or a Jonga or Thar or Gurkha but one day, I will.
So, I do not and will never lay claim to being an expert. I relied on team-bhp to give me an unbiased view and to a certain degree, to form my opinions. I'm not so sure now.
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Old 18th July 2014, 09:58   #51
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Default re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Few 'positive' apprehensions as mentioned in the main thread and all of these AFTER the original review was posted for the first time. If not a very thorough change, at least some of the things should be bettered in the final vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niks_devil666 View Post
I got a chance to TD the vehicle at force motors test track. .....We were told that the steering size has been reduced and column changed to make the position of the steering a little better....
Quote:
Originally Posted by mallumowgli View Post
...The sales guy at the Coimbatore showroom was saying that there is an improvement planned for the steering system before the vehicle is made available in the market
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Originally Posted by 007 Bond View Post
...There were some issues found on pre production vehicles, hence it took a long time.

....@ 50 vehicles have been retrofitted with the latest changes, which were suggested by various magazines, consultant etc.

....The chassis has been changed for a much better NVH, A/C, etc have been modified......
Disclaimer: I am not a Gurkha fanboy and don't own one, but in the absence of any proper vehicle for my simple requirement, i sincerely wish some of the 'major' shortcomings in Gurkha may be taken care of. The minor ones can be lived with from living with a jeep for past 3 years.

Last edited by Kandisa : 18th July 2014 at 09:59.
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Old 18th July 2014, 15:22   #52
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Default re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Guys, just want to clarify that this is not the version with changes/improvements that we hear is going to be launched in Sept (20xx). This is the version that was *launched* at the auto expo last year. I guess after producing 150 vehicles, they found some issues and shipped those vehicles to an African country.

Indians will get the much improved (to be seen) version in September, so save you monies...
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Old 18th July 2014, 15:54   #53
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Default re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
...Really? One look underneath was not enough for you?
Honestly how does one find out if a vehicle is sound engineered or not by getting on all 4s and seeing at the under-chassis? I would like to learn more.
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Old 18th July 2014, 17:06   #54
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Default re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Honestly how does one find out if a vehicle is sound engineered or not by getting on all 4s and seeing at the under-chassis? I would like to learn more.
Dear svsantosh - oh! You have asked a wonderful question. .

There is no shortcut. What is required is a perfect combination of the following 3 capabilities:

1. PRODUCT CLARITY - a thorough understanding of the various interfaces between vehicle systems to be able to start with a clean sheet and actually make a new vehicle platform to be born / common platform strategy to spawn variants around existing aggregates / platforms and project management.
2. VEHICLE INTEGRATION - as an engineering application process, including capability to sit on layouts and strategize the design of control systems, making layouts, drawings, allotment and revisions to part numbers, release of BOM, obsolescence, cost control and program management.
3. VEHICLE EVALUATION - absolute clarity in understanding the finest nuances of "vehicle behavioral feel" by actually formulating DVPs and conducting evaluation in various test modes including "Vbar-max" (which takes the vehicle far beyond anything that the customer will ever throw at it in its entire life-cycle) and also real world usage pattern simulation, deriving severity ratios and determining factor of safety.

This is a continuous learning process and a challenging career option. The best reward is that you finally get to see your baby run on the roads out there and delight customers! It is a conscious call which an individual has to take. Remember, it has to be all three capabilities used at the same time!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 18th July 2014, 19:57   #55
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Default re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
That is a great way to evade a question to which one doesn't have a proper answer.
Possibly. But why bother? You have decided not to buy, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Honestly how does one find out if a vehicle is sound engineered or not by getting on all 4s and seeing at the under-chassis? I would like to learn more.
Well, "look underneath" is a term I used to mean look beyond the surface. It does not mean getting an all fours and evaluating the vehicle, but yes, some looking is involved. Kind of like saying "kick the tyres around". It's an expression.

I can tell you what I had in mind is nothing compared to the reply which spawned the Thar.

Obviously, some level of background information of the vehicle involved is required. In this case, due to lack of much competition, a direct comparison with Thar will also be included.

Let's look at some of the factors I considered:

1: Engine and Gearbox: Even though the engine in the TD vehicle was BS3, and a possibility of a BS4 engine was discussed, the BS3 engine itself seemed adequate in my opinion. I was looking for relatively easy cruising ~80-100, since I am not into racing with modded Civics on the highway with inadequate brakes. More importantly, Tractability. Will I have to burn my clutch to go up any incline or not?

2. Engine accessories: Components attached to the engine. Like alternator, compressor, pumps, etc. How well integrated it is. Not some Jugaad welded or bolted clamp holding things up. I am of the belief that the mounting plane is critical and any variation will lead to uneven load on the engine. The Thar A/C compressor comes to mind.

3. Chassis: A uniform tubular chassis offers significantly more torsional and structural rigidity that a cut and paste box section chassis. This is critical for longevity of such types of vehicles which are subject to a lot of lateral loading. I bet a six year old Gurkha rattles and squeaks less than a 2 year old Thar just based on the chassis alone.

4. Body panels. Note the panels of the Gurkha with the ribbed for strength panels. No wavy sheet metal like you know who. Just compare side views of a Force Cruiser/Gama with a Bolero/Thar on the road to see what I mean.

5. Interior/Dash: I can live with a spartan interior as long as it fits. Yes, the Gurkha has a mish mash of vents and gauges, but it is in a correct fit panel. Not something that was borrowed from another vehicle and hand cut to fit, possibly by unpaid interns looking at how crude it is. Rattles and squeaks, anyone?

6. Suspension and Steering: Type, size, girth, and layout of steering and suspension components. As Navpreet318 already pointed out about the Wishbone, forged components can be considered "Sound" engineering whereas stamped and welded components usually NOT.

I could go on and on like track width discrepancies, water fording capability, etc., etc,. but hope you get the picture.

Cheers
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Old 18th July 2014, 20:52   #56
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Default re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by gthang View Post
Possibly. But why bother? You have decided not to buy, right?
If, I wasn't interested in buying, I wouldn't book one and pay 15k extra to have it send by lorry. All Force vehicles are driven from the plant.

If, I wasn't interested, I wouldn't waste my time taking a TD of the vehicle. However, in the current state, you are absoulutely RIGHT. I won't buy this, neither will I recommend other to buy. If Force can make sufficient changes, then I will buy it.

Can I ask you two very simple questions?



1) Do you own a 4x4 vehicle?
2) Have gone off-road with the group of off-roaders in the town/city/village you live in?

Last edited by 4x4addict : 18th July 2014 at 20:54.
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Old 19th July 2014, 16:53   #57
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Quote:
Originally Posted by rk206 View Post
I was surprised to come across a review of the "2014" Gurkha because last I heard they were to Re-re launch the Gurkha in September. (4x4x4 or 6x6x6 or 7x7x7, I'm not sure)

However; As I read your review, it seemed to be familiar, that I had read it somewhere and the pictures seemed familiar too.
My bad, apologies. It was actually me who renamed the thread & added 2014 to it.

Now removed.
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Old 23rd July 2014, 09:19   #58
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
My bad, apologies. It was actually me who renamed the thread & added 2014 to it.

Now removed.
Thanks GTO, Appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Guys, just want to clarify that this is not the version with changes/improvements that we hear is going to be launched in Sept (20xx).
My sincere apologies .

Last edited by rk206 : 23rd July 2014 at 09:22.
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Old 30th July 2014, 13:41   #59
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Exclamation Gurkha replacement: Buy another Gurkha or something else?

Hi All.

I have owned Gurkha for over five years, bought it brand new. Issues for now I will keep to myself.

I have been thinking all these years, is Gurkha really worth the money you pay for it?

If we are talking just about Gurkha how does it lives up to the money one has to spent on it to acquire it.

I am just thinking aloud if I have to buy another 4x4 today, should I even look up at New Gurkha or just give it a miss and make a RFC ready vehicle or a 2nd hand Pajero ready to offroad and long drives with that money?
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Old 30th July 2014, 14:01   #60
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Default re: Gurkha replacement: Buy another Gurkha or something else?

Rhandle this is unfair on so many levels ! You were the one who was supposed to answer this question for us who were in terrible hanging state. I've been meaning to ask the same question to Gurkha owners when the new Gurkha gets launched. So please just buy another Gurkha and let us know is it any good PS I have always been fascinated by the Camel trophy Land Rovers and wanted to build a vehicle on similar lines. I think Gurkha is the perfect factory ready vehicle for that. As far as I gather from TBHP posts Gurkha does have many flaws but most of them are assembly line rectifiable faults and the vehicle is not mechanically weak per se. If I go in for Thar I'll have to deal with weak front IFS.
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