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Old 30th July 2014, 14:36   #61
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Default re: Gurkha replacement: Buy another Gurkha or something else?

Oh, absolutely Not!

The Gurkha comes with SO MANY problems, that never leave an owner at peace, like frequent failure and replacement of rubber parts, rusting issues, NVH, Bad fit and finish, Bad performance in Slush and Sand and the list goes on!

It can't cruise on a highway all day at 3 digit speeds, it has relatively poor brakes, it relies on the Diff Locks for almost everything!

It can't run like a Gypsy, doesn't look like a Jeep (sic), can't ride like a Safari, can't be relied upon like a Scorpio and hardly offers 60% of the power of a Thar!

Last but not the least, the lesser said about the Post-Sale support, the better!

Why in Hell, would one want to live with a Gurkha for so many years? You tell me...

Last edited by roy_libran : 30th July 2014 at 14:59.
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Old 30th July 2014, 14:47   #62
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Default re: Gurkha replacement: Buy another Gurkha or something else?

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Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
Why in Hell, would one want to live with a Gurkha for so many years? You tell me...
Stockholm Syndrome?

This syndrome is generally seen among Jeep owners and Bullet owners.
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Old 30th July 2014, 14:54   #63
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Default re: Gurkha replacement: Buy another Gurkha or something else?

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Stockholm Syndrome?

This syndrome is generally seen among Jeep owners and Bullet owners.
There might be a more sinister purpose though.

But, Rahul has opened a can of worms here. Fingers crossed.
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Old 30th July 2014, 15:10   #64
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Default re: Gurkha replacement: Buy another Gurkha or something else?

Looks a bit surprising (kind of 'Devil's advocate') as it is coming from one of the very few long term Gurkha owners. As rightly pointed out, you should be asked this question by people who have kept Gurkha in consideration for a future 4wd.
As a neutral/normal person, who has not owned a Gurkha, I think one should wait for the new Gurkha to be released, have a test drive, look at the possible compromises he might have to make for owning this vehicle vis-a-vis other available options in +- 1-2 Lacs price range and finally take a decision. The relative usage in offroad-onroad conditions and the pedigree of Gurkha are few of the key points. But for someone like you, who knows the old Gurkha inside out and also have already tested the new one (except probably the possible improvements which Force might have made in between), it would be bit different i guess. Personally i have a tremendous soft corner for the 2nd hand pajeros, but coming across a 'trusted' piece within budget and to some extent lack of after sales put that into 'not-so-obvious' choice.
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Old 31st July 2014, 21:58   #65
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

There is nothing else in this Segment, at this price, i.e short wheel base 4x4 with full lockable cabin, AC, power steering, forward facing rear seats etc. However, Force needs to pay attention to quality, fit and finish and after sales support. They also need to make the interiors little more user friendly. In it's current form, it may appeal to hard core macho off-roaders like gthong who is only interested in the hard core mechanical s, but for the most of us who want a certain amount of refinement and reliability it has some way to go.

@rhandle, I guess Force will answer your question in a few months (hope not few years) when the supposedly refreshed version comes out.

Last edited by 4x4addict : 31st July 2014 at 21:59. Reason: More to post..
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Old 1st August 2014, 11:09   #66
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Default Re: Gurkha replacement: Buy another Gurkha or something else?

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Originally Posted by Kandisa View Post
Looks a bit surprising (kind of 'Devil's advocate') as it is coming from one of the very few long term Gurkha owners. As rightly pointed out, you should be asked this question by people who have kept Gurkha in consideration for a future 4wd.
As a neutral/normal person, who has not owned a Gurkha, I think one should wait for the new Gurkha to be released, have a test drive, look at the possible compromises he might have to make for owning this vehicle vis-a-vis other available options in +- 1-2 Lacs price range and finally take a decision. The relative usage in offroad-onroad conditions and the pedigree of Gurkha are few of the key points. But for someone like you, who knows the old Gurkha inside out and also have already tested the new one (except probably the possible improvements which Force might have made in between), it would be bit different i guess. Personally i have a tremendous soft corner for the 2nd hand pajeros, but coming across a 'trusted' piece within budget and to some extent lack of after sales put that into 'not-so-obvious' choice.
The first question you need to ask is why you need a 4x4.

Lets take the cases.
1. I need a weekend vehicle for OTRs only
Ans . Get a jeep built. Cheaper and you can customize things. Its a weekend OTR ride, so no problems reliability
2. I need a 4x4 for touring, and very rare OTR
Ans. Buy a SUV with 4x4, or something like Tata 3.0 double cab truck
3. I need a 4x4 for touring and some normal OTRs
Ans. Buy a Thar, customize it with HT and stuff
4. I need a 4x4 for touring and extreme OTRs
Ans. Buy the Gurkha.

3/4 are a bit debatable.
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Old 1st August 2014, 11:23   #67
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Default Re: Gurkha replacement: Buy another Gurkha or something else?

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
2. I need a 4x4 for touring, and very rare OTR
Ans. Buy a SUV with 4x4, or something like Tata 3.0 double cab truck
Well, putting the ball back in your court. You suggest a compact, rugged, reliable 4X4 in India for the above purpose. You can't, can you, without again going back to a Gurkha or Thar? Both not exactly reliable, but...
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Old 1st August 2014, 11:24   #68
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Default Re: Gurkha replacement: Buy another Gurkha or something else?

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Originally Posted by mallumowgli View Post
Well, putting the ball back in your court. You suggest a compact, rugged, reliable 4X4 in India for the above purpose. You can't, can you, without again going back to a Gurkha or Thar? Both not exactly reliable, but...
Safari and Scorpio are perfectly okay for mountain touring.
So is the bolero 4WD with Power steering.

If touring is your purpose, then the Storme will serve you much better than a Thar with home made modifications.
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Old 1st August 2014, 11:30   #69
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Default Re: Gurkha replacement: Buy another Gurkha or something else?

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Safari and Scorpio are perfectly okay for mountain touring.
So is the bolero 4WD with Power steering.

If touring is your purpose, then the Storme will serve you much better than a Thar with home made modifications.
I was talking about a compact vehicle. Size of a Quanto - but looking more like a proper vehicle!! In fact in a Quanto thread you yourself had said, for lack of options, you would consider buying a Quanto if it came in 4X4 guise

The Gurkha is almost there - but not there yet!!
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Old 1st August 2014, 11:53   #70
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Default Re: Gurkha replacement: Buy another Gurkha or something else?

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
..Lets take the cases.
1. I need a weekend vehicle for OTRs only
Ans . Get a jeep built. Cheaper and you can customize things. Its a weekend OTR ride, so no problems reliability
2. I need a 4x4 for touring, and very rare OTR
Ans. Buy a SUV with 4x4, or something like Tata 3.0 double cab truck
3. I need a 4x4 for touring and some normal OTRs
Ans. Buy a Thar, customize it with HT and stuff
4. I need a 4x4 for touring and extreme OTRs
Ans. Buy the Gurkha.
3/4 are a bit debatable.
Nice and crisp thoughts. I guess most of the people will fall under the 1st and 2nd categories, or a combination of both (e.g. a jeep for the OTRs only and an SUV for the touring). Yes 3 & 4 are bit debatable. THAR surely can serve the purpose of touring but only for a die-hard jeep fan(s) (single or couple at the best). It is more of a perfect compromise for all the requirements (OTR + touring + fun vehicle + desire to own a modern jeep). How the new Gurkha will be perceived to fit the requirements will depend a lot on Force itself, how willing they will be to sale/provide after sales. The 3.0 Xenon luxury 4x4 CC is surely a very good option in terms of price, but the visibility of the product is bit less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Safari and Scorpio are perfectly okay for mountain touring.
So is the bolero 4WD with Power steering.
The LX 4wd Bolero however has two major shortcomings: lack of grunt for highway cruising which constitutes a large part of touring and the ride quality.

Last edited by Kandisa : 1st August 2014 at 11:58. Reason: quoting further posts
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Old 1st August 2014, 14:31   #71
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Default Re: Gurkha replacement: Buy another Gurkha or something else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The first question you need to ask is why you need a 4x4.

Lets take the cases.
1. I need a weekend vehicle for OTRs only
Ans . Get a jeep built. Cheaper and you can customize things. Its a weekend OTR ride, so no problems reliability
2. I need a 4x4 for touring, and very rare OTR
Ans. Buy a SUV with 4x4, or something like Tata 3.0 double cab truck
3. I need a 4x4 for touring and some normal OTRs
Ans. Buy a Thar, customize it with HT and stuff
4. I need a 4x4 for touring and extreme OTRs
Ans. Buy the Gurkha.

3/4 are a bit debatable.
Conceptually agree with 1, 2, and 3. But would slightly tweak point 3 to say that Thar is suitable for City driving (not so much touring) and the medium OTR's.

No comment on 4 due to lack of knowledge on the Gurkha.
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Old 1st August 2014, 14:36   #72
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

One of the emails I sent to force motors:

Dear Sir

Few Points for Gurkha

Gurkha
[ ] Mats for noise – There is lot of road noise filtering in to Gurkha along with noise of metal vibrations. With three layer of mats I have been able to reduce this. But I guess with proper wurth coating or rubber coating the vibration noises can be contained.

[ ] Door opener - Hits the knees. This becomes an issue when travelling long distances, I have covered 1000 kms in one go and I know it starts to pain as it is very hard plastic. I now when going for long drive usually wear crepe bandage to avoid hurting my knee.

[ ] Tire size - The current tire size reduces Gurkha’s clearance. 7.5 x 16 are good tires, if you cannot get them then 235x85x R16 are next best size. I have tried almost five sets in Gurkha with 15” and 16” rims. My best tire till now has been Cooper discovery STT 235x 85 x R 16. Gives good ground clearance and torque also does not reduces drastically because of usage of wider tires.

[ ] Paint quality – There has been bubbles coming out in paint. Also I have seen while off-road when there are scratches or anything the paint actually peels off.

[ ] Cutting of boards near fan
[ ] Extra fan
[ ] Seats not at 90 degree
[ ] Hose pipes touching metal

For these above points I have sent two separate emails, which you have received earlier. I believe these have been sorted in new Gurkha except for Extra fan for condenser.


[ ] Loose bolts - Bolts are either of shoddy quality or are not tightened properly. Once my alternator got loose and other time the engine oil compartment screw got loose and would have drained engine oil had I not checked it accidentally!

[ ] Bonnet welding and opening wire : The cross under bonnet has a weld which breaks after use and then the Bonnet vibrates a lot resulting in noise. The vibrations have caused an issue in my vehicle where it is not opening by use of bonnet opening knob inside the cabin.

[ ] Rear seats high and have no leg space. I moved them back for the same. Also The seats can be modified by chamfering the edges in the wheel arch by 2” on each side and then fitting two bucket seats inside, which will reduce the height of the seats thus the rear passenger heads wont hit the roof and they will have a clear view from front windshield. Also now since space on wheel arc is freed they could be used for placing speakers, or storage space or proper glass holders.

[ ] Water separator is made of plastic thus it breaks. We can either have a changed design or fit metal water separator.

[ ] Accelarator pedal breaks. This pedal is made of Bakelite along with sensor. If we can run two metal strips from the side of pedal, the issue would be resolved.

[ ] 4x4 gear stick reduced in height. I did reduce the height of gear lever by two inches as the drivers or the people in dealership first just pick the 4wd lever and slot it in 4H. They then forget to place it back in 2wd mode. The issue is the gear lever is tall enough and confusing to many people who do not know what 4x4 lever is to be used for.

[ ] Plan lock for diff lock levers : the people in Dealership use the diff locks as Hand breaks as it resembles Toyota Qualis hand breaks. Either there should be a locking mechanism or the shape should be changed slightly for avoiding this situation of confusion.

[ ] Horns : The horns are not very great and tiny for this size of vehicle.

[ ] Wiper assembly : The wipers are pretty bad and during heavy rains they fail to function properly

[ ] Wind shield washer pipe is of poor plastic. The pipe comes out because of heat and just withers away so most of time the windshield washers are not working.

[ ] No heater or defogger, this has been done.

[ ] The front roof should have a sleeve or depression before it connects to windshield. As when it rain or even when it is raining very slowly the water on roof pours down the windshield.

[ ] The rear windows open up because of vibration rendering AC useless and lot of vibration noise. It would be good if they can be rolled down.

[ ] The front bumper should be winch ready and not this plastic bumper. Besides killing the look it is of no use.

We can also put a rear door for easy exit and entry for rear passenger if possible.

These are few of the items I was able to think off hand and there can be many more which will come out in further use. Please feel free to ask me in case my points are not explanatory.

Regards
Rahul

**************

for those thinking about "For these above points I have sent two separate emails, which you have received earlier. I believe these have been sorted in new Gurkha except for Extra fan for condenser."... Please go through this thread ...http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...-kms-done.html (10 Dummies guide to Gurkha ~ 17000 kms done)

Last edited by rhandle : 1st August 2014 at 14:39. Reason: Added the link to the other thread.
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Old 1st August 2014, 20:07   #73
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

The thread, Tini, that you have started ,succinctly puts forth the merits and shortcomings of the oft discussed vehicle, the Gurkha.

Whether the Gurkha, merits so much discussion is in itself a debate, which we, wiseacring members of TBHP,subconsciously undertake frequently, till somebody has a bloody nose or a loss of tooth, so to say figuratively.

I have been ordained to own the Gurkha for quite some time and I have no intention to sell it, not only because I love it, but because I have toiled over it, more than I have for my son's education and career.

Hoping that, the Gods of SUV's so to say, one day would bless my penance and reward me, a trouble free, 5000 kms on the Gurkha.

Gurkha owners like me can talk and claim whatever we want to, make you feel jealous or force you take cover and load your weapons against us, when we fire those salvos at your beloved, sweat -of-your -brow, jeeps and gypsies.

Funny we are only a community of 6 to 8 offroading Gurkhas, amidst a sea of offroaders, from East to West, North to South of this vast, Hindustan.

Having said this, after tying my shoe-laces, be back on the track, I would unhesitatingly, without grudge, remorse and all other emotions that a human being could garner, state that the Gurkha is DEFINITELY NOT a vehicle to be purchased, at a price which on stretching a little bit higher could fetch you the likes ,of a Scorpio LX 4x4 or the TATA Xenon 4x4 (without that additional 4) , vehicles which could serve you efficiently, satisfactorily and could make your visits to TBHP forums rare (pun).

Should you be beguiled, not withstanding, probably due to bad planetary influences, to purchase the Gurkha at a price of "Daas laakh ", be prepared to meet the Rahu_Ketu of Force Motors after sales/service, whose punch line was probably copied by Arnold Schwarzenegger in the famous movie, Predator " It's your baggage, you fall behind and you are on your own ".

We, the Gurkha owners, have managed to sort out our vehicular problems on our own mostly. No one bothered and nobody cared.

If Force Motors couldn't value the efforts taken by just a handful of Gurkha owners, to work on their own ,to bring out the capacities of the vehicle to the fullest, not only that, but to highlight all this incessantly to the general public on various forums , what kind of attention /service would it offer to the casual customer?

Force Motors should figure out, why, although in production since early 2000, the Gurkha, started gathering attention only after 2008.

Long live the Extreme Offroading Vehicle , Gurkha 4x4(x4).


P:S : I have done 42000 kms on my Scorpio 4wd without spending a single dime on repairs. I have driven the Xenon XT too and these vehicles are VFM.
I am now a very proud owner of a Pajerosport.

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Old 1st August 2014, 22:01   #74
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Default Re: Gurkha replacement: Buy another Gurkha or something else?

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Originally Posted by vibhavraghav View Post
As far as I gather from TBHP posts Gurkha does have many flaws but most of them are assembly line rectifiable faults and the vehicle is not mechanically weak per se.

Not with factory fitted front and rear diff locks. I might guess, they must be a boon for off-roading

Last edited by hubolt : 1st August 2014 at 22:05.
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Old 2nd August 2014, 01:30   #75
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Default Re: Gurkha replacement: Buy another Gurkha or something else?

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Originally Posted by hubolt View Post
Not with factory fitted front and rear diff locks. I might guess, they must be a boon for off-roading
Yes they are if there is not enough articulation. in real offroad scene in india we do not use much. But yes its a feather in cap besides the factory fitted snorkel.
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