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Old 2nd August 2014, 09:26   #76
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by mohan View Post
The thread, Tini, that you have started ,succinctly puts forth the merits and shortcomings of the oft discussed vehicle, the Gurkha.
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P:S : I have done 42000 kms on my Scorpio 4wd without spending a single dime on repairs. I have driven the Xenon XT too and these vehicles are VFM.
I am now a very proud owner of a Pajerosport.
Dear Dr.Mohan - hello after 4 years! Every word in your post is absolutely correct and I am not surprised at all. I guess there are no answers, except - THIS HAPPENS ONLY IN INDIA! .

That's all Sir. Enjoy your Pajero! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by Samurai : 2nd August 2014 at 11:17. Reason: Kindly do not quote the entire post
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Old 5th August 2014, 11:03   #77
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Dr.Mohan - hello after 4 years! Every word in your post is absolutely correct and I am not surprised at all. I guess there are no answers, except - THIS HAPPENS ONLY IN INDIA! .

That's all Sir. Enjoy your Pajero! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Sir I do not think it happens anywhere else but just this. I remember meeting you when Thar was not even launched and you actually had us drive the Thar and took the feedback. I guess and I have stated in my ownership thread as well, Gurkha is a very nice capable vehicle which has been marred by shoddy workmanship and marketing.

Dealers are not trained enough. During delivery my Gurkha was parked with Diff Locks engaged, once the vehicle was delivered to me from workshop after service in 4H. And the driver has gals to tell me, kya saheb how can you drive this vehicle it is so heavy to run. I immediately ran to my vehicle and my suspicion was right.

But fortunately I have not had much horror stories, except once alternator broke loose, but what Dr. Mohan faced was terrible.
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Old 5th August 2014, 17:59   #78
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by rhandle View Post
I remember meeting you when Thar was not even launched and you actually had us drive the Thar and took the feedback.

Gurkha is a very nice capable vehicle which has been marred by shoddy workmanship and marketing. Dealers are not trained enough. During delivery my Gurkha was parked with Diff Locks engaged, once the vehicle was delivered to me from workshop after service in 4H. And the driver has gals to tell me, kya saheb how can you drive this vehicle it is so heavy to run. I immediately ran to my vehicle and my suspicion was right. Fortunately I have not had much horror stories, except once alternator broke loose, but what Dr. Mohan faced was terrible.
Dear rhandle - thanks for your gracious comments on the meeting and test drive in New Delhi, I remember conducting these activities before the launch to ensure 100% success, which is achieved!

Who will train the dealer service people, the bean counters? Oh, come on now, but thanks for giving me a hearty laugh! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 10th August 2014, 00:12   #79
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Default Re: Gurkha replacement: Buy another Gurkha or something else?

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The first question you need to ask is why you need a 4x4.

Lets take the cases.
1. I need a weekend vehicle for OTRs only
Ans . Get a jeep built. Cheaper and you can customize things. Its a weekend OTR ride, so no problems reliability
2. I need a 4x4 for touring, and very rare OTR
Ans. Buy a SUV with 4x4, or something like Tata 3.0 double cab truck
3. I need a 4x4 for touring and some normal OTRs
Ans. Buy a Thar, customize it with HT and stuff
4. I need a 4x4 for touring and extreme OTRs
Ans. Buy the Gurkha.

3/4 are a bit debatable.


Absolutely; Bang On tks1979

I have been an avid reader on various automobile forums for over 5 years and had followed the Force Gurkha online & offline for around 2 years during (2010-12) in my search for a vehicle suitable for needs defined above in Case 3; attended some OTRs with different off-roading Groups, had loads of discussions with some good off-roaders on various options available in the market; It is during those days; I remember my chat with Rahul Roy who being a Force Gurkha owner gave a very valuable account of his experiences over the years. Rahul also shared thoughts on his First Test Drive of the Mahindra Thar with Mr. Dhabhar Behram who by then had probably clocked over a Lakh kilometres testing that very vehicle.

In the meantime; a friend of mine had joined Force Motors at a very senior position and the Gurkha re-launch seemed just round the corner; the New Gurkha 4x4x4 was showcased but it never made to Showrooms in Delhi NCR even till date. Add to that; last year during these days; even the Maruti Gypsy went out of production and I was told that no new vehicle could be made available for the next 3-4 months.

I had always loved the Rocky Beige Thar ever since I first saw it in 2011 during a road trip to Ooty but the subsequent Test Drives, Crude Interiors and lack of Creature Comforts for long tours had put me off. Spent a lot of time on both online & offline research; exploring various other options with people from the Industry; the exercise was time consuming but very helpful with loads of valuable inputs from a lot of people on various aspects of Jeeping, Mods / Enhancements, Rebuilds etc. Finally; for lack of any good & reliable option in the market at that juncture specially for my needs; I decided to buy the Thar CRDe and customize it gradually.

Now, after 14000 kms & one year in my Rocky Beige Thar (a mix of long road trips - 4000 kms Raid de Himalaya, 3000 kms Desert Storm, couple of 1000 Kms Family Trips in Hills & Snow, lots of City Driving & some OTRs); last evening; a friend of mine sent me pictures of some cool looking Force Gurkhas in Red Colour; specially modded for RFC Goa. The attraction was instant and I immediately went online for more info. Comparisons started on various parameters such as Technical Specs, Dealerships, Price, Reviews etc and I got thinking........???

I once again started with defining my needs that I wanted my 4x4 to fulfill; I even tried to tweak the needs a bit so that I could somehow justify the Change from Thar to Gurkha;
Factory fitted Hardtop with Comfy Seats, Spacious Cabin, Front & Rear Difflocks, Factory-fitted Snorkel, Mercedes Engine, Alloys etc.

I also reflected upon my eventful & time-consuming journey over the last one year with the Thar;
a) Change of Seats (Bigger Comfy Seats with Armrests from Innova & front-facing, floor-mounted Rear Twin-Seater from Qualis)

b) Noise, Heat & Dust Insulation

c) Change of Bumpers

d) Power Windows & Central Locking

e) Alloys

f) Chassis, Brake Booster & Canopy Replacements (Under Warranty)

After 24 hrs of Introspection and a reasonably good show by Team Gurkha on the 1st day of RFC, Goa; I am still unable to justify the Replacement because The Thar offers a much better "Ownership Package" vs The Gurkha;

1. Iconic Jeep Appeal (Sure-shot Head Turner)

2. Compact Dimensions (very handy in City, Hills & OTRs)

3. Nippy Engine with awesome Pick-up & higher Top Speed

4. Smaller Turning Radius

5. Powerful AC

6. Easy Availability of Mods / Accessories & Spares throughout the Country

7. Mahindra Dealership Network

Points 1 to 6 may be Subjective in a lot of cases but the biggest comforting factor for me over the last one year has been the Post Sales Experience with Mahindra Dealerships; they have messed up big time on couple of occasions; there are huge gaps on Product-specific Training at Shop-floor level and yes; they are nowhere close to my Delightful Experiences as a Consumer with Honda and Maruti Suzuki but the Best Part at Mahindra is that they admit to their short-comings and are willing to rectify / compensate their Customers in the best possible manner. I have even been gifted a complimentary Extended Warranty for the 2nd Year as a Compensation for all the Teething Troubles.

People at Mahindra Dealerships are gradually learning to adapt to the fact that dealing with this product segment entails a lot of Personal Involvement and even though a lot of Thars may not be used as The Primary / Sole Family Vehicle; it is definitely loved & cared for as a Boys' Toy.

This transition of a mindset in a Large Organization is a very lengthy & time consuming process; have personally experienced this with Tata Motors as a Safari Owner for over 10 years. So, in spite of the Force Gurkha looking like an attractive option; can't afford another "Risk" in the light of their slow progress in the Past on various fronts; hoping that someday Force Motors will be able to infuse reasonable confidence in the Market.
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Old 10th August 2014, 08:42   #80
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Anyone who plans to buy the Gurka looking at the RFC prepared Gurkha's will be serious dissappointed with their vehicle. RFC Gurkha has been converted to Solid axle with leaf springs (Did some one say anything about the stock Forged Steel IFS) . The lockers where not the OEM lockers (Electrical/air not lever operated), the engine was not OEM but OM611 tuned to 200 bhp, according to the support team with GB32 gear box. Steering assembly was full hydraulic (no mechanical connection from steering to steering box) from Balwan tractor.
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Old 11th August 2014, 16:27   #81
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Update today in ET - soon to be introduced off-road vehicle Gurkha :

http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes...gment/40037033
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Old 11th August 2014, 20:17   #82
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

And even with all this they failed to installed a longer drive shaft to ompensate shaft travel and one of them broke off.

Anyone buyng a Gurkha is in for extremely poor service parts and customer support.

After this title sponsorship looks like they will succeed is selling 25 Gurkhas over the next three years if they can supply them.
4x4x4x4x4 !
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Old 24th August 2014, 20:44   #83
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Anyone who plans to buy the Gurka looking at the RFC prepared Gurkha's will be serious dissappointed with their vehicle. RFC Gurkha has been converted to Solid axle with leaf springs (Did some one say anything about the stock Forged Steel IFS) . The lockers where not the OEM lockers (Electrical/air not lever operated), the engine was not OEM but OM611 tuned to 200 bhp, according to the support team with GB32 gear box. Steering assembly was full hydraulic (no mechanical connection from steering to steering box) from Balwan tractor.
Hi,just one question---Can the IFS in Gurkha be replaced with solid axle with leaf springs?AFAIK it is not possible in Thar crde.Have sold my Thar DI--Toss up between thar crde & Gurkha.Track widths are more in the Gurkha.However the wheelbase is also more.OM616 engine in the Gurkha has less power than the crde engine in the Thar----If not for the IFS in the Thar Crde,The Thar would have been my dream vehicle.That said, if they pep up the engine in the Thar DI,(without converting it to crde)improve the track widths,with resultant better overtaking and turning capability,I would have booked it on the very first day of its launch----Alas---
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Old 24th August 2014, 20:49   #84
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

At RFC, they had both solid axle Gurkha and solid axle Thar CRDe. Everything is possible.
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Old 24th August 2014, 21:16   #85
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Steering assembly was full hydraulic (no mechanical connection from steering to steering box) from Balwan tractor.
Interesting. More details please.
Have seen this also in some construction equipment (eg from ACE), but is it street legal?

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Old 25th August 2014, 00:50   #86
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by Ronnie Zach View Post
Can the IFS in Gurkha be replaced with solid axle with leaf springs?AFAIK it is not possible in Thar crde.
3 or 4 Thar CRDe's have been converted to Solid axle in bangalore including Swastic Viji's. One of them participated in RFC. If you go through the RFC Thread, you will see the maroon/red Thar CRDe with Solid axle.

Gurkha is also possible, but I am not sure what steering you can use when you convert to solid axle and how/where you can source the axle from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Zach View Post
OM616 engine in the Gurkha has less power than the crde engine in the Thar----
The FTD2650 engine in the Gurkha is a DI engine loosely based on the OM616 and makes only 80 bhp. It is NOT the OM616 engine. The bore, stroke, fuel pump, etc are completely different. The OM616 with Turbo and Intercooler used to make more than 90 bhp.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Zach View Post
If not for the IFS in the Thar Crde,The Thar would have been my dream vehicle.
I think the IFS in the Thar has vindicated itself to a large extend, having participated in many off-road events since the launch. Unless you plan to do some very crazy and hardcore stuff the IFS should hold up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Zach View Post
That said, if they pep up the engine in the Thar DI,(without converting it to crde)improve the track widths,with resultant better overtaking
Tell me about it man. I increased fuelling, tweaked the turbo wastegate etc, but can still barely keep up with Ashok Leyland Dhost on highway. It performs best in the hills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Interesting. More details please.
Have seen this also in some construction equipment (eg from ACE), but is it street legal?
Basically at the end of the steering road, there is hydaulic unit which transfer the hydraulic fluid to the steering box that is fixed onto the differential pumkin. Two pistons on either side of the steering box connect to hub. There is no mechanical linkages at all between the steering and the steering box.

I don't think this is street legal as if you loose your hydraulics you completely loose control of steering. In case of power assisted steering, it will become hard but you can still steer without power assistance.

Secondly with hydraulic steering, there will be limited feedback and you won't know where the wheel is. Many times, I saw the drivers look out to see the direction of the wheel or to center it. It will also not allow precise steering at high speeds. In my opinion, this is purely an off-road set up and nothing more.
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Old 16th October 2014, 12:47   #87
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Made an inquiry with Khivraj Force today. The gurkha is available for test drive and sale next week onwards. Prices on road are as follows

4*4 Hard Top : 10.48 on road price
4*4 Soft Top : 10.18

Is there a potential of getting good dealer discounts ?
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Old 30th October 2014, 14:23   #88
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Saw this today near silk board.. Probably the test drive vehicle

Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4-1414659137757.jpgReview: The Force Gurkha 4x4-1414659167301.jpg
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Old 26th November 2014, 15:41   #89
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Thumbs down Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

I was recently in the Motinagar area of Delhi to review a few options for my Fathers next car. After the usual round of Toyota, Mitsubishi, BMW and Mercedes i was about to leave the area and crossed the Force Motors Showroom.

A faint memory was triggered about a fabled beast called the Gurkha that was meant to be launched and available for test drives. On a lark i pulled up and parked my Fortuner outside.

As i walked in the sight that greeted me made me rub my eyes in glee..for there in front of me stood a Gurkha in the flesh.

"Finally!" i thought to myself. "I am actually going to sit in one..hear it and drive it too!!"

This was in no way meant to be a consideration for my father of course..he is in the market for an automatic diesel SUV and the Fortuner, Pajero, Santa Fe, X1, X3, Q3 and Q5 were in the fray for his attention.

As i walked in i was met by ..well nobody really.

I stood around for a couple of minutes searching with my eyes for a whisper of attention from any of the staff. Finally i remembered the name of the man who had attended to me in April and promised me the Test Drive "ASAP".

I walked up to the unconcerned uninterested woman at the reception and told her i would like to see Mr.Tabish Ali with a bit of a triumphant note in my voice.

"Sir he does not work here now.." was her reply as she peered over my shoulder and looked pleadingly at another staff member to come attend to this mid morning nuisance.

Finally i was met by a polite Sardarji and i told him immediately that i wanted to test drive the Gurkha.

I was escorted out and as i stood beside it my smile grew wide. I looked at all the angles to imagine how i could make this vehicle look better..there is so much promise in it!

Soon though all this changed.

I noticed the patchy paintwork and the blob like wielding.

The ultra flimsy mud flaps did not cover the wide tyres. The front grill plastic quality was that of a kids toy out of a packet of chips. The less i say about the "design" of the front grill the better.

Uneven Panel Gaps could swallow a finger in places.
Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4-1.jpg
Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4-2.jpg

But the real horror unfolded once i opened the doors. I don't have words. Will let pics do the talking..

The principle of "Fit and Finish" is an alien concept at Force Motors.
Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4-3.jpg

I have had toys with better plastic quality than this..and i mean cheap toys. Do note the fit of the Glove box
Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4-4.jpg

The Glove Box had to be held up and had exposed fittings. The design is ideal to chop of the fingers of ones arch enemies.
Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4-5.jpg

The drive ofcourse was way below par. The less i say about the throw of the gear lever the better. Between 2nd and 3rd felt like a good 12-14 inches of throw!
I had to search desperately for the gear slots and use a fair amount of force to literally force them into their slots. I guess its not called Force Motors for nothing.

1st AND 2nd refused to slot into place until the car was completely stationary.

Brakes were very very spongy. I looked at the sales guy and he smiled back weakly and said that they still had to do the PDI on this vehicle.

"Amazing work culture!!" i thought. The Japs and Germans must learn from them.

What confidence!! To actually let a potential customer test drive a vehicle before even a PDI has been done on it.

If anyone from Force Motors is reading this..anyone at all. Please pass on a message to the owners and management - Shame on you.

Shame on you for your lethargy. Shame on you for your indifference. Above all shame on you for your lack of pride in your work.


How can you let a product in this condition roll out of your factory?

I mean its costs close to 10 Lacs and this is what you deliver? In my view one should only buy this car if you have 10 lacs you need to burn. Then you modify it while spending yet more money on it.

Thus after approx 12 lacs spent you will be left with an OTR specialist weekend toy with the workmanship slightly superior to that of a village "Jugaad"

My hard earned money deserves more respect than this.

I was glad the brakes worked enough for me to stop the car and step out. Step out and walk away..forever.
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Old 26th November 2014, 17:43   #90
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Earlier this vehicle was a myth and people saw only pictures of. Only few got to see it in person let alone own it or drive it. Some owners were such fan boys that they refuse to see any of the huge number of flaws in this vehicle. Some owners are more truthful and will not knowingly let another screwed/fooled into buying this. Anyways, I am glad this beast is now out in the open so people can actually drive one and comment and/or make a decision to buy or not. After having driven the latest one, I can assure that anyone who has driven a halfway modern automobile is going to walk away. Force has two options: 1) End their misery and go back to their expertise in selling yellow board vehicles or put a better power train and handling package in this vehicle.
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