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Old 17th January 2015, 21:25   #106
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Hi!Spoke with The Force Gurkha dealer in Calicut-PMN Motors,Thiruvannur,Calicut.Mr Atul ,the manager says they are selling the Gurkha.He has offered to give me a test drive,next week ,on his way to Kottayam.Didn't get it ,but he says the Gurkha is fitted with mechanical differential locks and not Limited slip diff's as in the xenon.He also says low end grunt is better than in the crde ,and the wheel base shorter.Top speed about 110 on the highway. Can't match the thar crde on-road.well,hard top about Rs 10 lakhs 30,000 on road,soft top close to 10 lakhs Rs.:-))
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Old 21st January 2015, 23:23   #107
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Mr Athul of PMN Motors ,Thiruvannur Calicut,true to his word ,brought the hard top Gurkha to Ernakulam,for a test drive.What struck me at first sight was the fact that the Gurkha had a commanding presence ,parked near the helipad on Marine drive- the stickers on the bonnet ,the snorkel and the tyres ,blended in to give it a more compact look when compared to the di 4 wd which looks like a fairly disproportionate white painted body on 4 skinny NDMS tyres.As i climbed into the drivers seat and parked myself,I was pleasantly surprised at the good airconditioning inside,more so because I expected a weaker blower and airconditioning.The soft top may be a different kettle altogether,can't comment as I have not driven one yet.I had to reverse the Gurkha and maneouvre it between a few cars ,in order to get going.The steering felt pretty comfortble ,and reversing it was no trouble at all,even though the reverse gear had to be shifted like the Verna,laterally left and then forward.It slotted in easily.The first gear was a bit difficult to slot in gently initially,but releasing and engaging the clutch helped matters to a certain extent,and I feel it should be no trouble at all ,after getting used to the vehicle.I was asked to start in the second gear ,which was again in the forward direction,and this was a breeze:-))There was not much of a lag in the second gear as compared with the Thar DI,and as the RPM increased so did the acceleration of the Gurkha.There was no shudder even when the speedo crossed 58 km/ hour in second gear.The third gear had a fairly pronounced turbo lag ,but again matters improved with increasing rpm. One needs the qualities of an astute and patient man ,to overtake fast moving vehicles on a busy highway.Lack of judgement while deciding to overtake ,on the Gurkha ,may result in unpleasant suprises:-)).Just an inkling.---.The 4 th gear was also easy to slot in gently.Downshifting was a little confusing at first,as the vehicles I am currently using have a different configuration.Again, just a matter of getting used to the Gurkha,l Could not engage the 5 th gear due to the heavy truck traffic on container Road.The turning circle is nothing much to brag about,not a patch on the tempo travellers and the Thar crde.Did not take it off -road,but feel the Gurkha won't let one down if driven in the right manner,after getting used to it.Neither did I get the chance to engage the front and rear differential locks. The ride comfort was a class above the DI,and with front facing rear seats,the passengers sitting behind should feel more at ease.I blanched a bit and the initial euphoria nosedived when Mr.Athul informed me that the hard top Gurkha now costs Rupees Ten Lakhs ,forty three thousand :-(((The soft top gurkha 4 wd is just under 10 lakha in Kerala.If the price can be brought down,I might end up buying this Direct injection rugged vehicle,one day.Hope that Ernakulam remains a BS3 city for some more time---
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Old 3rd March 2015, 12:21   #108
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Does the Gurkha have electronic engine control or is it an old-school engine devoid of electronics? I was of the belief that Gurkha engine was old-school turbodiesel until i saw the picture below. There is a sensor that looks like a MAF just in front of the air filter housing. Whats the story?!

Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4-forcegurkhaengine.jpg

Src: TheautomotiveIndia
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Old 3rd March 2015, 12:31   #109
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Does the Gurkha have electronic engine control or is it an old-school engine devoid of electronics? I was of the belief that Gurkha engine was old-school turbodiesel until i saw the picture below. There is a sensor that looks like a MAF just in front of the air filter housing. Whats the story?!

Attachment 1346110

Src: TheautomotiveIndia
The old Gurkha was an old school Turbo-diesel.
The new Gurkha is an old school turbodiesel with a pacemaker
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Old 3rd March 2015, 12:56   #110
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The old Gurkha was an old school Turbo-diesel.
The new Gurkha is an old school turbodiesel with a pacemaker
Well I hoped for a more technical answer. What does the MAF sensor do in the Gurkha? Is the fueling electronically controlled?

I hope other members will not get infracted for posting one-liners that doesn't add any value to the discussion

I am considering a hardtop diesel 4WD under 12L and have only two vehicles i like fit in my budget; one is the Gurkha and the other a Scorpio S4 4WD. I just finished reading the review here by 4x4addict and samurai and on automotiveindia and have come to the conclusion that the Scorp offers more for my money. So while reading the reviews when i came across the MAF sensor i thought i would ask about it here because its presence was interesting and unexpected.

Anyway i think i found the answer to my question.

Last edited by Sankar : 3rd March 2015 at 13:13.
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Old 3rd March 2015, 13:30   #111
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Does the Gurkha have electronic engine control or is it an old-school engine devoid of electronics? I was of the belief that Gurkha engine was old-school turbodiesel until i saw the picture below. There is a sensor that looks like a MAF just in front of the air filter housing. Whats the story?!

Attachment 1346110

Src: TheautomotiveIndia
It is an ECU controlled engine, mainly to meet emissions requirement. But the next question will be, and the answer will probably be yes, can the engine be made to run as a simple DI, without the ECU/Electronic interferences.
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Old 3rd March 2015, 13:33   #112
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Well I hoped for a more technical answer. What does the MAF sensor do in the Gurkha? Is the fueling electronically controlled?

I hope other members will not get infracted for posting one-liners that doesn't add any value to the discussion

I am considering a hardtop diesel 4WD under 12L and have only two vehicles i like fit in my budget; one is the Gurkha and the other a Scorpio S4 4WD. I just finished reading the review here by 4x4addict and samurai and on automotiveindia and have come to the conclusion that the Scorp offers more for my money. So while reading the reviews when i came across the MAF sensor i thought i would ask about it here because its presence was interesting and unexpected.

Anyway i think i found the answer to my question.
All modern vehicles require ECU + electronics to meet emission norms. So you won't find anything new in the market with just an old school electronic free turbo diesel.
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Old 3rd March 2015, 13:43   #113
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
It is an ECU controlled engine, mainly to meet emissions requirement. But the next question will be, and the answer will probably be yes, can the engine be made to run as a simple DI, without the ECU/Electronic interferences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
All modern vehicles require ECU + electronics to meet emission norms. So you won't find anything new in the market with just an old school electronic free turbo diesel.
Electronics free was one attraction i had towards Gurkha. Maybe i missed this in the test drive reports earlier. By the time i finished reading this report i came to the conclusion that it wouldn't work out so well as a family vehicle for me.

Now i understand the joke

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The new Gurkha is an old school turbodiesel with a pacemaker

Last edited by Sankar : 3rd March 2015 at 13:55.
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Old 4th March 2015, 12:16   #114
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
There is a sensor that looks like a MAF just in front of the air filter housing. Whats the story?!
Electronics are purely for emission control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
By the time i finished reading this report i came to the conclusion that it wouldn't work out so well as a family vehicle for me.
Now i understand the joke
Stay away from this bro, if you don't believe me, take your family along and do a test drive. S4+ 4WD is much better choice...
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Old 6th March 2015, 09:31   #115
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Recently got an opportunity to drive Gurkha off road. It was fun and experienced magic of diff lock. Dustless offroading was an experience vis-a-vis my Thar. However power/torque of Thar was clearly missing.

BS4 Gurkha is on the way and possibly will be available in 1.5 year or even earlier. One can expect torque as much as 300 NM in upcoming model.
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Old 6th March 2015, 10:40   #116
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by Floating Axle View Post
Recently got an opportunity to drive Gurkha off road. Experienced magic of differential lock. However power / torque of Thar was clearly missing.
Dear Floating Axle - hello to you. Your comment is correct and it clearly indicates that with locking differential, Thar will become extremely potent, nobody will be able to match the specifications. It is common sense. I hope some common sense prevails and this happens in production, instead of spoiling the timeless canopy shape and spending crores of rupees in "tooling cost" to put a silly plastic console between the seats and covering the handbrake lever. Oh come on now! You as customers must demand this DIFFERENTIATOR!

I still remember that in 2006, my very dear friend and a very very senior and respected Indian automotive journalist had openly told in a meeting within the plant that "a 4WD is not really a 4WD if it does not have limited slip differential / mechanical lock differential". Except for understanding that he spoke in English, I don't know how many people really understood what he was saying, how many people thought of doing something about it, how many people did it and proved its prowess to the customers out there! Please read the EXAMM 2010 thread now, you will understand the prowess of this feature. "That vehicle" was much more than this is also known!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 6th March 2015, 13:55   #117
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Floating Axle - hello to you. Your comment is correct and it clearly indicates that with locking differential, Thar will become extremely potent, nobody will be able to match the specifications. It is common sense. I hope some common sense prevails and this happens in production, instead of spoiling the timeless canopy shape and spending crores of rupees in "tooling cost" to put a silly plastic console between the seats and covering the handbrake lever. Oh come on now! You as customers must demand this DIFFERENTIATOR!
The reason for the "new" console and hood, is the skewed market understanding that the primary customer for a butch 4x4 is one who wants (for lack of a better term) a boulevard cruiser. The marketing material that comes out of M&M caters to this fallacy. I cannot understand, why we cannot have 2 versions. One for 80% on-road use with AC, power steering, softer sprung suspension, other goodies and another "outdoor" version for proper off/bad roading. This bare bones outdoor version should have LSD / mechanical lockers, longer suspension travel. Of course both of them need to get the ergonomics right, which in my opinion is a sore thumb in the Thar and the Gurkha. No, an off centre steering or a gear shift that looks like it went through a chicane is not acceptable. Even a 80's model maruti gypsy has better ergonomics w.r.t. steering reach, gear lever placement and pedals.
Phew! did I go OT here?
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Old 6th March 2015, 15:28   #118
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Floating Axle - hello to you. Your comment is correct and it clearly indicates that with locking differential, Thar will become extremely potent, nobody will be able to match the specifications. It is common sense. I hope some common sense prevails and this happens in production, instead of spoiling the timeless canopy shape and spending crores of rupees in "tooling cost" to put a silly plastic console between the seats and covering the handbrake lever. Oh come on now! You as customers must demand this DIFFERENTIATOR!

I still remember that in 2006, my very dear friend and a very very senior and respected Indian automotive journalist had openly told in a meeting within the plant that "a 4WD is not really a 4WD if it does not have limited slip differential / mechanical lock differential". Except for understanding that he spoke in English, I don't know how many people really understood what he was saying, how many people thought of doing something about it, how many people did it and proved its prowess to the customers out there! Please read the EXAMM 2010 thread now, you will understand the prowess of this feature. "That vehicle" was much more than this is also known!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Hello Mr. Dhabhar,

No doubt about our Thar's capabilities. However with 300 NM torque Gurkha surely may prove better with rest of its offering.

Kind regards
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Old 6th March 2015, 15:29   #119
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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The marketing material that comes out of M&M caters to this fallacy. I cannot understand, why we cannot have 2 versions. One for 80% on-road use and another "outdoor" version for proper off / bad roading. Did I go OT here?
Dear antihero - hello there, Jammu, right? , I like your Gypsy!

No, you did not go OT here at all! The "marketing material" is poor Vinod Nookala out there, holding the fort, flying the flag high! . When it takes forever to do anything because forms have to be filled for everything except go to the canteen for lunch, you are actually asking for 2 versions?

Oh My God, now there are two of us, because now you're nuts and I always was! HaHaHa! .

Dear Floating axle - reference your comment above, the Gurkha does not have the power nor the chassis dynamics to offer the delightful drive experience. This includes the transmission effectiveness also.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 6th March 2015 at 15:32.
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Old 6th March 2015, 17:21   #120
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post

I still remember that in 2006, my very dear friend and a very very senior and respected Indian automotive journalist had openly told in a meeting within the plant that "a 4WD is not really a 4WD if it does not have limited slip differential / mechanical lock differential". Except for understanding that he spoke in English, I don't know how many people really understood what he was saying, how many people thought of doing something about it, how many people did it and proved its prowess to the customers out there! Please read the EXAMM 2010 thread now, you will understand the prowess of this feature. "That vehicle" was much more than this is also known!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Something for your own company to incorporate...I mean the one you start after you pull the plug and retire.
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