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Old 6th March 2015, 20:54   #121
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by Floating Axle View Post
BS4 Gurkha is on the way and possibly will be available in 1.5 year or even earlier. One can expect torque as much as 300 NM in upcoming model.
You are talking about Force Motors here. If you remove the dot between 1.5 and make it 15 years, then it will be more believable. By the time BS4 Gurkha comes out, rest of the manufacturers in India will be on BS15.

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Originally Posted by Floating Axle View Post
No doubt about our Thar's capabilities. However with 300 NM torque Gurkha surely may prove better with rest of its offering.
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
the Gurkha does not have the power nor the chassis dynamics to offer the delightful drive experience. This includes the transmission effectiveness also.
Mr. Behram is absolutely right. Besides the crappy engine, ghe gearbox, steering and handling are also absolutely pathetic.

The response to this from Force Motors is that this vehicle is meant to be used only off-road and not on the road? Tell me this, How many people are looking to spend 10 lakhs ex-showroom for only off-road use? The Thar despite it's known flaws is succesfull, cause the buyer can use it to go to his office/business during the week without any issues and also go off-roading on the weekend.
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Old 6th March 2015, 21:44   #122
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

This review has revealed many important facets of a vehicle that was once perceived as a great vehicle by many, including me.
1. An Indian 4X4 was a matter of pride for many of us.
2. In fact the engines have been rated as one of the most reliable engines in the MUV/SUV segment.
3. The Force Gurkha surely impressed many with its butch and macho looks.

Infact the February sales chart echo the views of the members of this forum. Hope the stakeholders rescue the product.
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Old 6th March 2015, 23:44   #123
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
You are talking about Force Motors here. If you remove the dot between 1.5 and make it 15 years, then it will be more believable.
I am optimist ☺. Thar sales figures have already churned this business segment. Big eyes are on it.

Its going to be good days for people like us.

I would like to narrate old story which was true one.

It is 19 years back when I bought enfield at Indore. And I was distributing sweets for my new possesion. One guy asked me question "Why do you bought enfield?" I said "I like its beat".

The response was amusing "This beat you can get when you travel by 'BHATSUVAR', so why enfield"

I just kept mum at that time.

Last edited by Aditya : 7th March 2015 at 17:39. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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Old 7th March 2015, 13:49   #124
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by Ashok Naik View Post
1. An Indian 4X4 was a matter of pride for many of us.
I kind of disagree a bit here. I take pride at a good and successful Indian product. I cannot take pride just because a product is Indian. We do make a lot of crap also...

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Originally Posted by Ashok Naik View Post
2. In fact the engines have been rated as one of the most reliable engines in the MUV/SUV segment.
No doubht about this. The MDI32200 TC engine (DI Turbo Engine) from Mahnindra is also an excellent engine from a rudimentary MUV/Taxi perspective, but can you imagine if the Thar CRDe was sold with this under powered engine? Would it have got the sales numbers from private individuals just because it is a favourite engine of yellow board operators? The engine has to match your target audience and the target audience for Gurkha is definitely not yellow board operators..

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Originally Posted by Ashok Naik View Post
3. The Force Gurkha surely impressed many with its butch and macho looks.
Totally agree. But the earlier ones with the round headlights with the classic g-wagen look much better than the overdone plastic push-up bra one that has been launced. But the core body panels are same, so with some effort, one can go back to the classic g-wagen looks.

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Originally Posted by Ashok Naik View Post
Infact the February sales chart echo the views of the members of this forum. Hope the stakeholders rescue the product.
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Originally Posted by Floating Axle View Post
I am optimist ☺. Thar sales figures have already churned this business segment. Big eyes are on it.
Its going to be अच्छे दिन for people like us.
If Force can make a Gurkha with proper interiors, good engine gearbox combo and good handling and driving dynamic, I will be the fist one to buy it . But in it's current state it is a sheer waste of 10 Lakhs..

Floating axle, if I hadn't bought my first Gurkha in 2008, I would be an optimist too, but I have seen and watched Force Motors for the last 7 years, hence no too optimistic...
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Old 7th March 2015, 15:06   #125
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
1. The MDI32200 TC engine (DI Turbo Engine) from Mahnindra is also an excellent engine from a rudimentary MUV/Taxi perspective, but can you imagine if the Thar CRDe was sold with this under powered engine? Would it have got the sales numbers from private individuals just because it is a favourite engine of yellow board operators? The engine has to match your target audience. 2. The earlier ones with the round headlights with the classic G-wagon look much better than the overdone plastic push-up that has been launched. But the core body panels are same, so with some effort, one can go back to the classic G-wagon looks.
Dear 4*4 addict - thanks for your replies to my comments, feels nice! I have divided your comments above into two parts. My answers are as follows:

Answer 1: My mother-tongue is Gujarati, and as we say in my mother tongue "mara lohinu paani thai giyu", translated, "my blood turned to water" to try and "convince" that NEF-TC / NGT530R / 4.3 / 235-70R16 is required. You know how 235-70R16s happened? Simple, if they worked beautifully in Scorpio, they would work here. So I just fitted them and sent the thing for ARAI! Period! If I had not done that, you'd still be saddled with 215-75R15s with outer shoulder wear @ 20,000 kms. Don't people have eyes to see that 215-75R15s have outer shoulder wear @ 20000 kms, no matter how perfect your steering geometry is? HaHaHa! Still, when the "decently democratic" process of trying to convince did not seem to work, I reluctantly (I am a decent guy, remember?) used the "munnabhai" technique called "aay circuit, yeh mamu log ko bolna ke aapun ek gaadi banaya, dekh naa, bech naa, ekdum takatak bikega, aapun bolta hai naa"! I can't say further, there is something called "decent democracy" also! .

Answer 2: this answer is addressed to you and all TeamBHPans who ask such questions like "why not two versions"? The only words which do the rounds are "kick-off" / "job 1" / "target" / "glide path" etc. Also read my reply to a similar question asked by antihero yesterday. Please remember that our world is different, I don't know where their world is located. We are passionate about automobiles, I don't know where their passion (if at all) lies. So, if one animal comes out, count your lucky stars, for God's sake don't ask for two, it will be a fantastic excuse to kill the first one also! .

So, what to do? See Steve Jobs' answer. He was one of the very few guys (the other one was Herb Kelleher), who understood. This is what he said:

"Our customers want to know who is Apple and what is it that we stand for. Where do we fit into this world? What we are about isn't making boxes for people to get their jobs done, although we do that well. We do that better than almost anybody, in some cases. But Apple is about something more than that. Apple at the core, its core value is that, we believe that people with passion can change the world for the better. That's what we believe! And we have had the opportunity to work with people like that, people who have done it"!

Here's the link, see for yourself. I rest my case!



Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 7th March 2015, 20:27   #126
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I kind of disagree a bit here. I take pride at a good and successful Indian product. I cannot take pride just because a product is Indian. We do make a lot of crap also...



No doubht about this. The MDI32200 TC engine (DI Turbo Engine) from Mahnindra is also an excellent engine from a rudimentary MUV/Taxi perspective, but can you imagine if the Thar CRDe was sold with this under powered engine? Would it have got the sales numbers from private individuals just because it is a favourite engine of yellow board operators? The engine has to match your target audience and the target audience for Gurkha is definitely not yellow board operators..


Totally agree. But the earlier ones with the round headlights with the classic g-wagen look much better than the overdone plastic push-up bra one that has been launced. But the core body panels are same, so with some effort, one can go back to the classic g-wagen looks.





If Force can make a Gurkha with proper interiors, good engine gearbox combo and good handling and driving dynamic, I will be the fist one to buy it . But in it's current state it is a sheer waste of 10 Lakhs..

Floating axle, if I hadn't bought my first Gurkha in 2008, I would be an optimist too, but I have seen and watched Force Motors for the last 7 years, hence no too optimistic...
Thanks Mr.4x4addict,

It is best to hear the comments of a Gurkha owner. I have never travelled or driven a Gurkha. I have only seen it in photos.

So our ideas were only limited to a vehicle, indigenously built with the intent of challenging international car-makers.

But shelling out 10 lakhs only to keep my money within India and purchasing an all-round poor vehicle would be impractical. Compare the Gurkha with the Duster/Scorpio and any kid will advise you to avoid the Gurkha.

Wish someone from Force motors would pass by this thread!
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Old 9th March 2015, 11:57   #127
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Something for your own company to incorporate, I mean the one you start after you pull the plug and retire.
Dear Ken - HaHaHa! I hope your prophecy comes true, as I am an optimist, I always live with hope that something will happen! HaHaHa!

. Good one Ken! Did you see the Steve Jobs' video? I hope there are more like him out there!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 9th March 2015 at 11:59.
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Old 12th March 2015, 13:49   #128
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Ken - HaHaHa! I hope your prophecy comes true, as I am an optimist, I always live with hope that something will happen! HaHaHa!

. Good one Ken! Did you see the Steve Jobs' video? I hope there are more like him out there!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Yeah, I watched it. It is a funny thing...people will recognize genius, contrary thinkers, people who think 'out of the box'...and then they will try to catch this lightning in a bottle, quantify it, analyze it, conceptualize it...and in effect try to put what is out of the box, back in a box, and lose it in the process.

Quotes from Thomas Alva Edison, the inventor extraordinaire, who often worked 18-19 hour days, for months on end.

“Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety-nine percent perspiration.”
― Thomas A. Edison

“I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.”
― Thomas A. Edison
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Old 12th March 2015, 14:22   #129
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post

Quotes from Thomas Alva Edison, the inventor extraordinaire, who often worked 18-19 hour days, for months on end.

“Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety-nine percent perspiration.”
― Thomas A. Edison

“I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.”
― Thomas A. Edison
I think he got the quote wrong. He should have said, one percent inspiration, and 99% misleading others.

Seriously, not a guy any "inventor" should idolize. Even though he knew AC current was better, he launched a propaganda war against his to further his own monetary gains.
A clever businessman he was though. Just like Steve Jobs was a marketing genius.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 12th March 2015 at 14:24.
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Old 25th September 2015, 00:13   #130
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Bumping this thread. I had completely forgotten that fellow bhpian Partha (psurelia) and I had driven the Force Gurkha about 3 months back. Partha's reminder during the recent impromptu meet forced me to search the laptop and find the pics and videos of the drive.
The sales adviser had just started praising the Gurkha and said that it is an EOV that is Extreme Offroading Vehicle. It was short lived as Partha had reached our beloved Sukno Pukur (Dry Pond) by that time and we were looking at the dip where we had driven our 4x4s so many times. Seeing the dip the SA went mum at first and then started shouting. He was convinced that no vehicle can go down the slope and we were heading for doom. He tried to get out of the vehicle, but his beloved vehcile did not leave any room for that. Being a 3 door vehicle, the SA sitting at the back seat was at our mercy. Finally he was able to plead his way out when I got down and allowed him to disembark

Here is a video of the TD -

A few more videos of other vehicles in the same place -







Observations:
The Good:
1. Superior comfort off-road compared to the Thar and Bolero 4WDs
2. Good all-round visibility
3. Great Ground Clearance
4. The Gurkha can move up slopes carrying much less speed compared to the other 4WDs

The Bad:
1. The interiors are very cheap even by Bolero LX and Thar standards
2. The clutch is horrible. The gearshift is worse. Partha drives a Safari Storme and he had a tough time with the gear-shifts
3. If you feel that Thar and Bolero 4WD levers are oddly placed, please drive the Gurkha. The perception will change. One has to lift the arm-rest to get to the 4WD lever.
4. The Diff-locks were not engaging properly in the TD vehicle
5. Feels under-powered on road
6. The 4WD was not disengaging and the sales people were not able to do anything. Finally I was able to disengage after quite an amount of effort.
7. Steering feels vague on-road
8. The diff-locks did not make much of a difference on a steep slope with dusty surface
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Old 26th September 2015, 15:03   #131
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

Scorpio did the incline which the Gurkha could not !! Sharing a video of "Marengo" Scorpio 4x4 of BHPian 1100D doing the slope where the Force Gurkha 4x4 faltered.

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Old 26th September 2015, 19:28   #132
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Originally Posted by AJ-got-BHP View Post
Scorpio did the incline which the Gurkha could not !! Sharing a video of "Marengo" Scorpio 4x4 of BHPian 1100D doing the slope where the Force Gurkha 4x4 faltered.
Thank You Arav for posting this.

However, just a piece of information for the people who see the Scorpio video, the Scorpio at that time did not have a working front axle (as the CV joint had given away), was in RWD mode. This necessitated a little more momentum during the climb than would have been required if it had a working 4wd at that time.

The scorpio's underbody (fuel tank) is protected by a very rigid arrangement, and can be seen in my ownership thread. This was also the opportunity to test it out.

However, the slope where the Gurkha and the others seem to be making merry of, it would be interesting to know, that bhp-ian Samba's Alto K10 has also taken that slope successfully (in reverse).
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Old 27th September 2015, 02:51   #133
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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Scorpio did the incline which the Gurkha could not !!
Thanks Arav for the post and as you know I was there that day as well. However, with more momentum the Gurkha too would have climbed the slope as the much inferior bolero di without diff locks and a novice driver had climbed that slope before (and all the four wheels of the bolero were getting power too). Moreover one cannot push somebody else's vehicle the same way as one can do his/her own vehicle. Maybe even a 2wd can climb the slope with the right amount of momentum and guidance from stalwarts. But that was not the point. We wanted to check if the diff locks helped at crawling speeds. So it is better not to compare what happened on different days with different drivers having different mentality and skill levels. Hope this does not start a mine is better than yours war

Last edited by BlackPearl : 27th September 2015 at 03:21.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 17:52   #134
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

It would be interesting to see how these SUV and offroaders fare when the pond turns to a slush pit after rains. I would love to see videos of these vehicles attempting to climb in and out on the slopes after they are soaking wet with monsoon rains!!!
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Old 17th October 2015, 15:20   #135
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Default Re: Review: The Force Gurkha 4x4

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It would be interesting to see how these SUV and offroaders fare when the pond turns to a slush pit after rains. I would love to see videos of these vehicles attempting to climb in and out on the slopes after they are soaking wet with monsoon rains!!!
Very interesting point you made there. It even gets worse in our part of the world. Forget doing slopes, maintaining direction on level ground becomes tricky (especially if you have to make a curve). We had a monsoon OTR a few days back, essentially all old-school Jeeps and MM540/550's on the usual playground for Sir Uday Bhan Singh's "Kolkata Offroaders", we were strrugling on NDMS/Sandgrip tyres on lightweight Jeeps, let alone the heavyweights. But yes, all of the participating vehicles had open differential.
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