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Old 8th December 2014, 17:38   #16
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Default Re: Power Steering !!

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Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Manveet Ji,
Bolero 2WD comes with Rake and Pinion steering system not 4WDs. They come with Rane power steering with steering box.

Shubhendra
Yes Sir you are Right. I showed my mechanic pics from Gogi ji's thread and he got it as well. Am getting the same Rane steering with steering box.

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Originally Posted by jeeva View Post
Any power steering needs a (hydraulic pump). I guess, your mechanic is confused with the steering box and the pump-local terminology.
Rack and Pinion steering will not go well with a 4 wheel drive set up with solid axle.
The old 2WD/4WD Bolero GLX, Tata Sierra/Estate/Sumo/Koyo power steering set up will work fine.
Yes, am going in for the Steering Box setup itself. Actually these mechanics use local language and terminology which sometimes even I do not understand and communicate wrongly on the forum - that's why pictures from TBHP threads are so useful.
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Old 8th December 2014, 18:00   #17
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Default Re: Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
I will only recommend that you must do what is technically correct.
Dhabhar Saheb,
Why its technically incorrect ? other than steering, rest is all bolt on job which thousands of jeepers have done (including me). I need to understand what is wrong in conversion even putting power steering.
Technology has evolved in last few decades (that's why designed Thar CRDe else M&M would have been still selling MM550). Everyone want their jeep to be safe (stoppable), easy to maneuver (power steering) etc......
What is wrong in that, I will never ever put my money in Thar CRDe, i will put half of that money and build the REAL JEEP !
BTW, when are we having tea session at Baner, my Bolero 4x4 is there with a Willy 52 and now ready CJ3B diesel.

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
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Old 8th December 2014, 20:46   #18
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Default Re: Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Manveet - sorry to be a spoilsport but let me give you the facts.

You just cannot fit rack and pinion power steering with a live front axle. You just cannot put disc brakes as you will need a booster to operate them. Then the stub axles will need to be changed as caster will be more for power steering application otherwise you will get major handling issues. There are so many such "Jeep Things" where people will talk high and mighty about giving you the moon but actually nothing will happen properly on the ground. Garages just cannot do what R&D can do. I can see that you are getting swayed and that you are going overboard (you are not the first one). Whatever you are proposing must not be done as nothing is engineered, you will not get value for your money.

I will only recommend that you must do what is technically correct. Thar CRDe is technically correct, you have it, now use it! . However, finally it is your call.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Dhabhar Saheb,
Why its technically incorrect ? other than steering, rest is all bolt on job which thousands of jeepers have done (including me). I need to understand what is wrong in conversion even putting power steering.
Technology has evolved in last few decades (that's why designed Thar CRDe else M&M would have been still selling MM550). Everyone want their jeep to be safe (stoppable), easy to maneuver (power steering) etc......
What is wrong in that, I will never ever put my money in Thar CRDe, i will put half of that money and build the REAL JEEP !
BTW, when are we having tea session at Baner, my Bolero 4x4 is there with a Willy 52 and now ready CJ3B diesel.

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
BD Sir, have you seen the amount of Thars on the road today? Nowadays it seems there are only two kinds of people - those that "already own the Thar", or those that "want" to - its insane. And of those who "already own the Thar", they are again two types - the sudden Jeep experts or those that are completely clueless about the 4x4 lever.

Like you had rightly said on my Thar thread, the vehicle fulfills a latent desire which is why people are buying it. I am the same guy I was two years ago when I sold off my Accord for the Thar, as compared to today when I am more excited about this baby than I was about the Thar. The abundance of Thars on the road must be good for M&M, but I'm suddenly not so excited with the vehicle as I was earlier. Don't get me wrong, it's a wonderful vehicle and still turns me on everytime I look at it - but when I bought it there were relatively much fewer on the road than they are now - within that exclusivity lay the appeal. But the Thar's over accessibility has completely killed it for me. Which leads me to this project of mine

So with support of seniors and many knowledgeable folks on this Forum, I will build this into something that will fulfill my REVISED latent desire - and will hold on to the Thar till I have either succeeded or failed in my attempt to do so.

Am grateful to the Thar for inducting me into the Jeeping community. But ironically, Real Jeeps are Built, not Bought.

Last edited by manveet : 8th December 2014 at 20:49.
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Old 9th December 2014, 10:11   #19
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Default Re: Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story

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Originally Posted by manveet View Post
BD Sir, real Jeeps are built, not bought.
Dear Manveet - I completely agree with your above comment, that's why I built the Thar (at no personal cost)! / .

Dear Shubhendra and Manveet - even for a minute I agree to everything that you are going to do, I just cannot keep quiet on "SAFETY", which is paramount! The brake pedal mounted on the firewall may not have the requisite rigidity to push the booster push rod at the instant when there is an obstacle on the road in front of you (we won't know). The rack and pinion steering ratio will be different and the base movement may be insufficient, the mounting of the rack axis from the front wheel center line in longitudinal direction will define how sensitive it will be, will a fabricated mounting be millimeter perfect on both sides? (we won't know). Therefore, we won't even know what will the the result on vehicle dynamics. Power steering reduces steering effort and therefore requires additional caster to counter the wandering effect, with live axle, caster is built into the tube machining, will you put caster plates? Will only caster plates work? (we won't know). The list is very long, I have just mentioned some examples.

Anyways, please read my last line, "finally it is your call". As you have decided to do it, I will guide you in the correct direction as I have done here. For me, this is an opportunity to learn. Best of luck.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 9th December 2014 at 10:13.
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Old 24th January 2015, 19:49   #20
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Default Re: Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story

Full props to you Manveet !

i remember when you started your Thar thread i was glued to it since i was close to buying a Thar myself.

In the last two years ive twice almost put down money and then had a change of heart (practicality vs passion) when it came to the Thar.

Great to see you've taken it to another level by building up a MM550. All the best to you.

In the meantime i continue to struggle between deciding on the New Scorpio or ...(wait for it) The Thar .
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Old 16th February 2015, 19:49   #21
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Default Re: Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story

So, a couple of upgrades have happened in the last 2 odd months. Will detail them in a subsequent post but here's what the Jeep looked like last week.

Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story-dsc_0011edit.jpg

In a parallel development I upgraded to the new Note 4, which I put to good use over the weekend ..

Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story-20150215-15.08.49-copy.jpg

And on the day India beat Pakistan in the cricket world cup, I had one additional reason to smile ..

Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story-20150215_193649-copy.jpg
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Old 17th February 2015, 11:23   #22
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Default Re: Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story

Hi Manveet,

Good plans for the Jeep!

1) You mention Safari shocks? Is that a brand or you mean Tata Safari shocks? What's the benefit of moving to those?
2) The rear fuel-tank idea is good. I have had that but I suggest don't put a seat on top and let the seat stay where it is. Seat on top of tank will end up being a very uncomfortable place to sit as its the rear-most position. Unless you want some people to experience that
3) What's the difference between 540 and non-NGCS 550 leaf-springs?

Cheers
Adi
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Old 18th February 2015, 10:33   #23
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Default Re: Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story

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3) What's the difference between 540 and non-NGCS 550 leaf-springs?

Cheers
Adi
Bana,
both are same

Regards,
Shubhendra SIngh
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Old 18th February 2015, 11:19   #24
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Default Re: Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story

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Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Bana,
both are same

Regards,
Shubhendra SIngh
That's what I thought too but wanted to confirm. In case of NGCS springs, it would require a whole lot of additional work to use on the non-NGCS, if at all feasible.
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Old 18th February 2015, 19:21   #25
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Default Re: Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story

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Originally Posted by AVR View Post
In case of NGCS springs, it would require a whole lot of additional work to use on the non-NGCS, if at all feasible.
Its complicated but possible, we are trying SPOA with NGCS springs and some different shock absorber and but obvious home made shackles. Lets see if it works, but definitely its complex

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
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Old 18th February 2015, 21:03   #26
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Default Re: Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story

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Originally Posted by AVR View Post
3) What's the difference between 540 and non-NGCS 550 leaf-springs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Bana,
both are same
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVR View Post
That's what I thought too but wanted to confirm. In case of NGCS springs, it would require a whole lot of additional work to use on the non-NGCS, if at all feasible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVR View Post
1) You mention Safari shocks? Is that a brand or you mean Tata Safari shocks? What's the benefit of moving to those?
My current leaf-springs are narrow and tend to twist when the wheels are turned to either side. General consensus was that they needed to be changed. The ones I am going for are broader and (maybe) longer. The rear are of the Thar (or similar) and front are from some newer MM variant. These are quite the norm on most Jeeps I have seen on the OTR's as is the combination of Tata Safari shock absorbers with these. Installing these entails changing all plates, shackles, pins, U-bolts, bushes, pins, etc. - not sure if this is what you refer to as complex?

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Originally Posted by AVR View Post
2) The rear fuel-tank idea is good. I have had that but I suggest don't put a seat on top and let the seat stay where it is. Seat on top of tank will end up being a very uncomfortable place to sit as its the rear-most position. Unless you want some people to experience that
With 11 inches being chopped off the jeep, not sure where else to accommodate both the fuel tank and seat. Definitely don't want the fuel tank under the passenger seat. So plan to go in for a wider and shorter 60L tank and the seat over the tank or as forward as possible.

Last edited by manveet : 18th February 2015 at 21:08.
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Old 19th February 2015, 10:49   #27
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Default Re: Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story

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Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Its complicated but possible, we are trying SPOA with NGCS springs and some different shock absorber and but obvious home made shackles. Lets see if it works, but definitely its complex
Bana, you and your experiments!!!

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Originally Posted by manveet View Post
Installing these entails changing all plates, shackles, pins, U-bolts, bushes, pins, etc. - not sure if this is what you refer to as complex?
Sounds complex for sure! But then that can be brushed off by saying "It's a Jeep thing"

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Originally Posted by manveet View Post
With 11 inches being chopped off the jeep
Ya with the chop there won't be space. Missed that part I guess.

Good to see a Jeep being modded. Always fun reading!
Thanks to the Thar, this section was getting boring lately...

Cheers,
Adi

Last edited by AVR : 19th February 2015 at 10:51.
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Old 20th February 2015, 14:05   #28
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Default Re: Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story

A couple of pics from the chop-job, in sequence ..

Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story-chop1.jpg

Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story-chop2.jpg

Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story-chop3.jpg

Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story-chop4.jpg

Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story-chop5.jpg
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Old 7th March 2015, 01:26   #29
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Default Re: Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story

A couple of work-in-progress photographs from last week ..
Attached Thumbnails
Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story-20150228_163314.jpg  

Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story-20150228_163324.jpg  

Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story-20150228_163336.jpg  

Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story-20150228_163304.jpg  

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Old 7th March 2015, 02:05   #30
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Default Re: Never thought I'd build a Jeep! My MM540 story

I guess building machines is like raising kids. ( I do not have experience in any of this, hence am guessing). No matter what ever the end result is, you are bound to love it/him/her and be proud of it/him/her. I always have dreamt of owning a jeep and threads like these are responsible for such idiotic dreams . I know I do not have luxury to afford one more four wheeler at this point in time, and jeep being the least practical/comfortable has taken the back seat for now. Hopefully one day, a jeep will own me.

All the best to you, Sir & Congratulations !!!
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