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Old 9th November 2014, 14:55   #16
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Default re: 1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places

A relaxed day at the friendly neighbourhood garage.

The silencer was welded, the doors adjusted for rattles and squeaks and the spare wheel put in its correct place outside the boot door. The cabin is a lot quitter now, no rattles or squeaks. "G" recommended that I change the hard and brittle rubber mud flaps because they tend to break off on bad road especially during winters. A new set of "Senior" flaps were sourced from Amba Motors and installed.

I mentioned the 4x4 rattling lever to the mechanic and his diagnosis was that the crosses in the front propeller shaft needed a change. We took off the three propeller shafts and inspected them. Turns out that there were three crosses that needed replacement. Aftermarket crosses were bought and the propeller shaft taken to a nearby lathe for installation.

The gentlemen at the lathe was one of the best examples of "taught on the job" workmen that I have seen. Each hammer stroke was precise. No movement was wasted, no stroke went off mark and within an hour the propeller shafts were ready with new crosses. I was mesmerised by his apparent skill and experience. If ever I have a chance, I will definitely post a video of him working. Splendid!

The propeller shafts with new crosses were installed and there is a definite reduction in the 4x4 lever rattling. However, the problem is not completely gone. The gear lever does vibrate more than it should and this vibration is even more pronounced at poor gear changes.

A total of Rs.2000 for the crosses, lathe work and installation.


Rant alert

Yesterday my MASS technician had the front diff parts lying in the dirt at the shop floor and was only too ready to put them in as is. I can only imagine what grit and sand could do to bearings. It was only after I intervened that the parts were given a diesel wash, cleaned, blow dried with compressed air and installed. This is the last time I am stepping into a MASS unless I am forced to. Shame on you Maruti for such poor training and enforcement. Yes, people in the industry will try and justify this with poor education, attrition and other factors. But what they need to understand is that, all these reasons are simply not my problem. I am paying top money at a company workshop and I expect quality service. If MASS cannot provide it, I will take my business elsewhere. It is for the company to ensure that processes that ensure quality are in place and are enforced with no leeway. Its that simple. The MASS has the advantage of knowledge (read service manuals), specialised tools and equipment and better conditions. However, these advantages have a zero, zilch, nada effect on their workmanship quality. The mechanics still choose a hammer and chisel over a lock check nut tightener, I have never seen any workshop manager refer to the service manual, ever! and the less said about cleanliness the better.
The Gypsy now heads home for some TLC, vacuum, polish and wax. Then its off for its sojourn in the Indian Himalayas.
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Old 9th November 2014, 18:45   #17
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Default re: 1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudev View Post
You can of course replace older beams with newer one.
Thank you for your concise yet pertinent explanation. Would the "new" clear beam setup have a significant advantage over the old setup? Thanks again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bump-Stop View Post
As you may well believe, they just treated the vehicle like any other hatch or sedan. Didnt check play on the transmission shafts,didnt know where the grease points were and didnt check tightness of transfercase mounts, spring mounts etc.
In short, they had no clue how to handle a 4x4 vehicle.
True i agree with you on that (absolutely no idea) which is primarily the reason for my rant today

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo View Post
Another Gypsy lives on... great thread. Your opening frames of your friend's Gypsy are the best pictures of a hard top gypsy I've ever seen of it.
Thank you so much for your compliment. Much appreciated. I usually concentrate on landscapes and a gypsy seldom makes it as "the model". Something like

1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places-20140716dp2m2781.jpg

A hardtop is essential for me with my trekking gear and other odds and ends, though I would love to drive an open soft top gypsy with its windshield lowered through the mountains. Sigh! man is a needy animal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo View Post
I think the shaking about has shaken up the wires which connect to the gauges. These wires being old may have cracks from which current may be leaking if that part touches any metallic part or each other. Shaking the wires might have just temporarily stopped that leakage path. Please check.
Thank you, i will get it done asap.
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Old 9th November 2014, 19:28   #18
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Default re: 1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places

Newer beams would be better. In any case old beams yellow with age
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Old 10th November 2014, 23:24   #19
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Default Re: 1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places

Some elbow grease coupled with some original (MGP) parts:
1. New steering wheel (old one was broken and had an inch of plastic missing)
2. Front door rubbers
3. Boot door rubber
4. Floor drain plugs
5. New window locks (neither rear window locks worked)

Oh yes and I am guilty of buying and installing buy 2 accessories, one of them for purely for cosmetic reasons (I must be slipping in my old age)
1. Dashboard Clock (I wanted one that was analog)
2. Cigarette lighter (doubles as mobile / laptop / camera battery charger)

The gypsy has been re-registered with the local RTO and its life extended by 5 more years (till 2019). To celebrate the completed document set, I took the Gypsy for a short 150 km drive from Jammu to Himachal. Most of the drive was a 4 lane highway except for the last 7 kilometres over a narrow winding hill road.

1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places-screen-shot-20141110-11.27.36-pm.png

So far so good, the Gypsy behaved impeccably. We were cruising comfortably between 70 and 80 kmph on the highway, with a top whack of 90. The last bit of the drive was after the sun had gone down and the windshield scars made driving a nightmare. The windshield needs to be changed the next time the Gypsy is back in Jammu. That's the highest priority todo item now. I still need to drive the gypsy around a bit before I have some faith over its (and mine) prowess.
Tomorrow, some pictures of the gypsy after its turn round and driving impressions after a few short drives. If all goes well, the day after the Gyspy heads for its first trekking assignment. More on that later.
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Old 11th November 2014, 14:03   #20
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Default Re: 1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places

Quote:
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The battery is in a poor state and needs a replacement. 2. I decided to go for 100/90 bulbs running on a Minda relay. Since, it's really a plug and play job; no splicing or cutting required, it does not compromise the vehicle's reliability in any way. I could not get a valid explanation on the functionality of the pattern on the headlight dome. As it was already dark, this meant an opportunity to test the new headlamps. The light is satisfactory, without being overwhelming for incoming traffic. I still need to adjust the headlamps for more accurate throw. 3. The original M800 had a heater fitted as standard. This makes me wonder why a heater was never an option for the Gypsy. Was it because of technical reason or was it simply cutting costs?
Dear antihero - for battery, please do what I have already mentioned. I am happy to see that you got "gyan" instead of the specification catalogue, this will never change, don't expect anything out of these guys. . If the hygrometer reads yellow or red, just throw the battery out and put a new one. You have to press the bulb before you put the hygrometer inside the battery, then slowly release the bulb for the electrolyte to rise up otherwise you will get bubbles which will not give you the correct reading. For headlights, please refer to page no 60 of the "Automotive Lighting" thread on this forum, all my comments are there. As you are not going to use the headlights much, plug and play MINDA relay is sufficient but for best results and 100% reliability, you must do what I have mentioned on page 60, then you will have daylight in front of your car. I don't know why Gypsy does not have a heater. From October 2011, heater is mandatory in all M1 category vehicles as per CMVR. M1 category means passenger carriers, sub-divided as upto 5 seaters (cars), 7 seaters and 9 seaters.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 12th November 2014, 09:03   #21
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Default Re: 1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places

As promised some photographs after the TLC.
The gypsy heads out for its first trek. More on that later.
Attached Thumbnails
1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places-201411120001.jpeg  

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1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places-201411120004.jpeg  

1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places-201411120005.jpeg  

1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places-201411120006.jpeg  

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Old 14th November 2014, 20:59   #22
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Default Re: 1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places

1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places-20141113dp2m3210.jpg

The Gypsy is back from its first trekking assignment near Chamunda, Himachal Pradesh. More about the trek here.

1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places-20141113dp2m3216.jpg

A 200 km journey mostly over good roads (National and State highways) with a bit of stint over a non metalled dirt road. So far, so good. I was doing a fair bit of gazing en-route and stayed within 60kmph self imposed speed limit. My gypsy's 4x4 gear lever vibrates between 60 and 65 kmph so I have an inbuilt speed governor thing going for me. One advantage of driving in the hills is that a top speed of 60 does not look feel glacially slow. Infact, I can keep up fairly well with most traffic. However, taxis are in a different league all together and I am sure if I can never drive with such nonchalance. All this speed enforced self control equated to a fuel consumption of just under 13L of fuel for the 200 kms hill journey (measured using tank full to tank full method).

1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places-screen-shot-20141114-8.21.12-pm.png

A few things that I have to sort out urgently
1. New windscreen
2. The dashboard console and gauges
2. An annoying buzz from the rear window
3. An annoying rhythmic clickty-clack sound from the front drivetrain
--
Tomorrow the gypsy heads out for some bad roads, single lane hill road experience.
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Old 15th November 2014, 06:38   #23
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Default Re: 1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places

Re vibrating gear lever. Is it only the lever that vibrates? Could be some rubber mount is gone and needs replacement. Is there some sound or just vibrations?
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Old 15th November 2014, 19:48   #24
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Default Re: 1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmonie View Post
Hi Antihero, Congratulations on the purchase! One simple check which gets forgotten with Gypsies is the seat bush at the base of the 4x4 shifter. This ring causes the shifter to get stuck sometimes especially if the transfer shifter has not been used in a while.
Looks like: http://www.pramodmarutiparts.com/prodimage/843.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by sudev View Post
Re vibrating gear lever. Is it only the lever that vibrates? Could be some rubber mount is gone and needs replacement. Is there some sound or just vibrations?
The 4x4 shifter (smaller lever) vibrates and makes a "grrrrrrr" sound. This happens only between 60 and 65 kmph in 4th gear. Over and under that speed there is zero vibration or noise in any gear. I tried revving it hard in each gear to see if I could reproduce the issue in say 2nd or 3rd, but no vibrations. Now in my opinion this could happen due to three reasons:

1. Worn seat bush that @rmonie mentioned. But then why does it vibrate at a specific speed ?
I had asked my neighbourhood mechanic to inspect the 4x4 seat bush that @rmonie mentioned. He stated that it was fine. Now, I have my doubts whether he did inspect the seat bush. I think to be very sure I will do it on my own and see if it needs replacement.

2. A problem with the propeller U joints / crosses. Removed and personally inspected all prop shafts and u joints. Changed 3 damaged crosses. The vibes did go down but not completely rectified.

3. A problem with an out of alignment propeller shaft / spline. Not sure about this but seems logical. However there is nothing much I can do about this other than replace all 3 prop shafts.

Any pointers will be appreciated. Thank you.
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Old 15th November 2014, 23:26   #25
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Default Re: 1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places

Today
Approximately 200 kilometres over mountain roads that ranged from poor to extremely poor. The roads were intimidating but then I figured this is exactly the kind of terrain a Gypsy is made for, and soldiered on. The 4th cog gathered dust, while the gypsy laboured along in 2nd and 3rd most of the day. Fuel figures unknown (fuel pumps closed by the time I got back). This was the best image I could grab while the Gypsy took a breather at 2700 metres.

1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places-20141115dp2m3224.jpg

P.S. this was also the best stretch of tarmac on the entire route.

The 500 odd kilometres over the last 3 days has given me some food for thought.
1. The carburetted F10A engine is an underpowered but a quiet and refined performer. If your bodywork / hard top is in good shape the noise, vibration, harshness (NVH) in a 410W is negligible. To really understand how negligible, ride a bolero or a mahindra pickup for a day. In my case the aftermarket bodywork means I have a lot more rattles and squeaks to live with.
3. The ride is harsh but it can be mitigated to a large extent with 215/75 profile tyres inflated to 25PSI (20 as mentioned in the 410W user manual is too low for tubeless radials).
4. There is no cheap workaround for the bumpy nature of the ride.
5. As long as your driving style is sedate (and it cannot be otherwise in a MG410W) the Gypsy is a fun vehicle for the hills. Make no mistake, any (yes, any) car or motorcycle will overtake you in the hills. However, as my friend "G" puts it -
"With a gypsy you don't have to think twice about taking on any unexplored road, in almost any weather condition."
And that my friends, is a peace of mind few vehicles can deliver.

More road trips and photographs to follow.
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Old 16th November 2014, 08:19   #26
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Default Re: 1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places

Only a a certain speed range in which ever gear - points to problem originating in the drive train after the gear box. Try coasting with clutch pressed around that speed range and see if the problem still persists. Then definitely looks like out of alignment prop shaft.

IMHO do not under inflate the tyre's. On rocky off road surfaces this will mean higher chances of side wall cuts / failure. Gypsy is know for its harsh ride. Partial solution some have found is installing carbon leaf springs.

This - harsh ride - and creature comforts like aircon, dust sealing, etc. are the reasons I did not buy Gypsy but preferred Vitara. Other wise Gypsy is ultimate nomad vehicle with tougher endurance and reliability than others in the market.
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Old 16th November 2014, 10:45   #27
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Default Re: 1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places

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The 4x4 shifter (smaller lever) vibrates and makes a "grrrrrrr" sound. This happens only between 60 and 65 kmph in 4th gear

Any pointers will be appreciated. Thank you.
I have EXACTLY the same issue on my 2011 hardtop. Existed since day one out of the showroom. Except for the annoying rattle at just about 'cruise speed', haven't had any issues or breakdown due to this. Did show it to two different MASS but they said that exists on 'most" gypsies. Lol, don't know whether to believe them, maybe other gypsy owners can confirm.
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Old 17th November 2014, 09:44   #28
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Mostly this annoying rattle is due to wear out in UJ crosses
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Old 17th November 2014, 11:38   #29
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Default Re: 1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places

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The 4x4 shifter (smaller lever) vibrates and makes a "grrrrrrr" sound. This happens only between 60 and 65 kmph in 4th gear.
Dear antihero - see the Scorpio 4WD and the Thar CRDe. There is a vibration damper mounted on the RH side of the transfer case. If the conventional solutions do not work (as other Gypsies also seem to have this issue), you may finally need something similar. I am not too sure as I have not really calculated the maths for Gypsy application.

I am happy to see that you are using the Gypsy for the purpose for which you bought it. Best of luck, use it carefully.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 17th November 2014, 12:30   #30
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Default Re: 1996 Maruti Gypsy MG410W - Going places

check this link:
http://www.zukioffroad.com/Tech_Libr..._install.shtml

covers the entire T case with pictures showing the shifter sheet / base.

also this for visual clarity:

http://www.xtremezuksoffroad.com/ind...ogID=37&cat=10
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