Go Back   Team-BHP > Buckle Up > 4x4 & Off-Roading > 4x4 Vehicles


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 26th December 2014, 19:31   #1
BHPian
 
darxide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: pune,mh
Posts: 71
Thanked: 27 Times
Default Bolero Engine Swap?

Hi, I have a 2008 bolero LX 4x4 with the XD3 engine and BA10 gear box. It's a used car that has 1.11 lac plus kms on it.

The engine is pretty much dead and sorely lacks power right from the day I bought it. Lacks pick up and power and wont go up steep slopes unless its really revved up. My mechanics have checked and have seen that the engine has mild to medium blow-by (back pressure) , most probably worn piston rings and cylinder liners etc.. The estimated cost of an overhaul I've been told will be in the region of 30-50 k. I would like to use this Bolero as my daily drive car and therefore I'm not too keen on running an overhauled engine since I've had less than satisfactory performance results from rebuilt engines in the past.

I have heard from various jeep enthusiasts and owners that the Scorpio SZ2600 chain drive engine is a match for the BA10 gearbox and fitting a used one would not require too many mods to the Bolero. I'm looking out for the right information and tips on how to go about this engine swap if possible. Looking forward to your advice and help thanks - nikhil
Attached Thumbnails
Bolero Engine Swap?-10876580_909770462366901_1198157672_o.jpg  


Last edited by GTO : 27th December 2014 at 14:50. Reason: Language
darxide is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th December 2014, 23:27   #2
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Itanagar
Posts: 25
Thanked: 0 Times
Default re: Bolero Engine Swap?

Hi Nikhil,
I am pretty much in the same boat! Only that mine is a GLX. It pulls ok but have been looking around for someone confident n experienced enough to do the swap. I dont mind DI Turbo but SZ2600 would be better. Good luck on your quest & please keep updating.
-Jai

PS: Your wheels look nice, could you share details please.
sunwarior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2014, 11:06   #3
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 3,059
Thanked: 4,572 Times
Default re: Bolero Engine Swap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by darxide View Post
I have heard from various jeep enthusiasts and owners that the scorpio SZ2600 chain drive engine is a match for the BA10 gear box and fitting a used one would not require too many mods to the Bolero. I am looking out for the right information and tips on how to go about this engine swap if possible. Looking forward to your advice and help thanks, Nikhil
Dear Nikhil and Sunwarrior - don't even think about it, you'll end up going mad with a non-engineered product on your hands and the garage guys will laugh all the way to the bank! Sell your Bolero and buy a used Bolero VLX, that's the only one which was sold with the NEF engine. They don't sell them anymore so you can't buy a new one!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
DHABHAR.BEHRAM is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2014, 14:48   #4
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 46,588
Thanked: 80,518 Times
Default Re: Bolero Engine Swap?

Get the engine rebuilt, but by a true professional. There's no reason why a rebuilt engine shouldn't perform strongly, as long as the right parts & labour are used. Your previous experience with overhauled engines might be down to a poor job done.

A quality rebuild will give you another 1.0 lakh kms minimum, if not more. Stick to timely engine oil & filter changes. That's really all that these oldschool Mahindra motors need.
GTO is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2014, 15:08   #5
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dhanushs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bathery/BLR
Posts: 3,407
Thanked: 3,930 Times
Default Re: Bolero Engine Swap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
... you'll end up going mad with a non-engineered product on your hands ...
Behram Sir,

Whatever said and done, there is still a group of people who would like to try out newer or better engines (eg: Small but, light weight and powerful, Japanese free revving engines) on their vehicles. The work will mostly be carried out in their backyard, or known pvt workshop.

You said we will end up with a non-engineered product. but, for the above group of people, could you please let know what the proper engineering (steps?) is while doing an engine swap?

darxide, I know vehicles running properly with the SZ engine in the new generation rigid chassis. However, unlike an offroading jeep, I assume your bolero will be your daily driver. In that case, however good a job mechanic does, wont be as good as the factory. Long term reliability issues should be a concern.

However, if you are deciding to go ahead with the conversion. Then IIRC, its a bit tricky to mount the SZ engine without interfering with the front pumpkin/driveshaft. Once you sort it out, you just need an old Scorpio bell housing, and you are good to go. Also, you will need more leaf springs up front to make up for the additional weight of the engine. Also whatever agility of the Bolero with the XD3P left, will vanish.

My Advise: If you are in this engine swap thing, to get more reliability than an engine rebuild, then DONT. You will NEVER achieve your end result.
but.. If you are bored of the old engine and try out a new one, and maybe as a project, then go ahead.

Last edited by dhanushs : 27th December 2014 at 15:18.
dhanushs is offline   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2014, 17:00   #6
Senior - BHPian
 
DirtyDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dharamsala
Posts: 1,781
Thanked: 694 Times
Default Re: Bolero Engine Swap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Whatever said and done, there is still a group of people who would like to try out newer or better engines (eg: Small but, light weight and powerful, Japanese free revving engines) on their vehicles. The work will mostly be carried out in their backyard, or known pvt workshop.
How you swap engines into a Mahindra 4x4 deserves its own thread IMHO. I would like somebody to address this in a separate thread. Some Team-BHPians have previously stated that most/all Japanese imported used engines are tired old wrecks. True?

How do you assure that the engine you want to swap in is fresh and dependable? I know that compression tests can tell you something. But they are no better than the guy doing the test. Maybe it is safer to buy it and rebuild it straight away?

How do you know you have mounted the new engine at exactly the correct angle to the existing driveline?

Last edited by DirtyDan : 27th December 2014 at 17:03.
DirtyDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2014, 18:56   #7
Senior - BHPian
 
Mr.Boss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,894
Thanked: 2,332 Times
Default Re: Bolero Engine Swap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by darxide View Post
Scorpio SZ2600 chain drive engine is a match for the BA10 gearbox and fitting a used one would not require too many mods to the Bolero. I'm looking out for the right information and tips on how to go about this engine swap if possible. Looking forward to your advice and help thanks - nikhil
Technically it may be possible, but you will end up with a non-road worthy vehicle (engine swap can't be endorsed in RC now-a-days) People still go ahead with these modification, but most of which are not put on public roads (and some do use at their own risk) Since you want to use it as your daily ride, we don't suggest this engine swap.
Mr.Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2014, 19:41   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NH209
Posts: 1,607
Thanked: 700 Times
Default Re: Bolero Engine Swap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Some Team-BHPians have previously stated that most/all Japanese imported used engines are tired old wrecks. True?
No. Though all are imported as scrap(in legal terms) we might get some engines in half good condition. There might be cases of the chassis giving up before the engine does and scrapped, and such stories.

My mechanic says a rebuilt imported scrap isuzu diesel was much better than a new HM made isuzu diesel(for the ambassador).
ramzsys is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th December 2014, 19:50   #9
Senior - BHPian
 
rajeev k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Emerging Metro
Posts: 3,296
Thanked: 1,689 Times
Default Re: Bolero Engine Swap?

There are many machine shops equipped with state-of-art machines for precision boring and grinding and with digital measuring methods on tap, attaining manufacturing level fits and tolerances are a lot easier than in the past. Therefore, hand over the engine and rest assured that the overhauled engine would be performing as good as a new engine.

Last edited by rajeev k : 27th December 2014 at 20:07.
rajeev k is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2014, 10:51   #10
BHPian
 
prabhuav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 670
Thanked: 112 Times
Default Re: Bolero Engine Swap?

Just like there are bad engineers and good ones,

there are mechanics out there, who can get good machine shops to rebuild engines better than mahindra built Peugeots.

Simple question, does any factory hand lap valves?
prabhuav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2014, 14:08   #11
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Pune
Posts: 580
Thanked: 603 Times
Default Re: Bolero Engine Swap?

A overhaul is always better. Just get it done properly, to all standard sizes.
If there has been no bearing seizure, and only blow by, your crank and connecting main bearings will be of standard size, and no machining needed there.
You can get OE sleeves and pistons in the market.
As a teenager i remember my dad used to use Mahindra Jeeps for years, for himself as well as his staff.He usually averaged about 3Yr 1.5 Lakh km between overhauls, and most vehicles were sold only after 10 Yrs and the 3rd overhaul done.
Engine swaps were never satisfying, as our back yard R&D never matches a companies one.

Rahul
Rahul Rao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2014, 15:01   #12
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Itanagar
Posts: 25
Thanked: 0 Times
Default Re: Bolero Engine Swap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Nikhil and Sunwarrior - don't even think about it, you'll end up going mad with a non-engineered product on your hands and the garage guys will laugh all the way to the bank! Sell your Bolero and buy a used Bolero VLX, that's the only one which was sold with the NEF engine. They don't sell them anymore so you can't buy a new one!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Dhabhar Sir,

Thanks for your suggestion.

However, mine is 2002 GLX 4WD model, done 1.5 Lakh Kms. Pulls fine after fuel pump overhaul. Except for wallowy, boaty ride over undulations everything is just fine, time for suspension checkup I guess. Just need to keep my eyes on temp.gauge while running AC and attend to the never ending leaks!

What is exceptional in this vehicle is its Body. No rust, still solid as a tank after 12 years! I have seen 4-5 year old DI-Turbo/m2DICR/CRDE models corrode right through! And this is the reason I cant think of letting go of my GLX. However, one simply cant beat the DI-Turbo engine as far as ruggedness/mileage/low maintenance/simplicity of design etc. are concerned - the LOUD clatter notwithstanding!

So combining the best of both, I would like to retain the body but swap the XD3P engine with DI Turbo(I am ready to live with some extra dB). Some pointers in this regard by those who have been there/done that would be highly appreciated. Dos & Donts, things to keep in mind, mistakes to avoid, things like that.

Also handy would be some sound dampening ideas, anything to contain the clatter if at all it is possile.

- Jai

PS: Is there any foolproof way to rust-proof the new Bolero? I always stop short of booking the new LX 4WD DI-Turbo just because of the rust problem.
sunwarior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2014, 19:05   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
SPIKE ARRESTOR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 2,653
Thanked: 679 Times
Default Re: Bolero Engine Swap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by prabhuav View Post

Simple question, does any factory hand lap valves?
Much simpler answer, if a factory (mass production and not a workshop) does that, it no longer remains a factory. But I understand what you are referring to.

Prost
Spike

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 28th December 2014 at 19:12.
SPIKE ARRESTOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th December 2014, 13:50   #14
BHPian
 
Shubhendra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Poona
Posts: 949
Thanked: 1,107 Times
Default Re: Bolero Engine Swap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
There's no reason why a rebuilt engine shouldn't perform strongly, as long as the right parts & labour are used.
GTO,
Suggest you to drive one on Khandala ghat (old ghat), if you are able to match speed with others (which you will not for sure), you will see temp needle reaching on 3/4th mark (on properly functioning cooling system) else you will see vehicles like pickup, cars zooming past you.
XD3P on SWB/MWB Jeep is a different matter though !


Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
[u] Sell your Bolero and buy a used Bolero VLX, that's the only one which was sold with the NEF engine.
Dhabhar Saheb,
you suggested me the same in a separate thread, but my question was unanswered. Bolero VLX never came in 4WD mode and we are talking only about bolero 4x4.
If knowledgeable people like you can help us to make our vehicles better, it will be great contribution. What is the best engine combo for XD3P powered bolero without changing gearbox ? any other engine than SZ2600 PLUS ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Then IIRC, its a bit tricky to mount the SZ engine without interfering with the front pumpkin/driveshaft. [/i]
Dhanush,
height of DiTurbo and SZ2600 PLUS is almost same, if we tweak the engine mounting and oil sump, we should be good to go. any suggestion ?

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh

Last edited by Shubhendra : 29th December 2014 at 13:51.
Shubhendra is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th December 2014, 17:05   #15
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 3,059
Thanked: 4,572 Times
Default Re: Bolero Engine Swap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Dhabhar Saheb, What is the best engine combination for XD3P powered Bolero 4*4 without changing the gearbox? Any other engine than SZ2600 PLUS?
Dear Shubhendra - I understand your intent in asking this query. Many people are looking for this answer and understandably so, because both XDP4.90 and XD3P engines have not really delivered what customers always wanted out of them. I know that this can become a controversial statement, but believe me, I know.

However, swapping an XD3P engine for another one (which includes the SZ2600) is not simple. OK here goes, imagine this scenario:
1. You have to understand the driveline limitation. In this case, the 4.88:1 reduction ratio crown wheel / pinion of the XD3P engine vehicle will not take the torque of the SZ2600, the teeth will break! (by the way () that's the same reason why I have not used the 4.90:1 axle ratio of the Petrol Scorpio on the Thar CRDe because although it will provide for excellent off-roadability, I know that the tooth strength is not sufficient to take the torque).
2. You have to provide for adequate clearance between the cylinder block and the front axle under articulation at GVW, otherwise the axle will hit the cylinder block and the cylinder block will break!
3. To overcome the clearance issue, you may think of lifting the engine up, either you will lift it up at the same angle as production (6 degrees in this case) or you will tilt it. This means that [u]all the engine and transmission mountings and propeller shaft angles will change, which will put undue stress on the needle bearings and in limiting condition, the propeller shaft UJ can lock on itself and break!
4. To overcome the raised engine position, you will have to tilt the pinion inclination. This means rewelding the spring seats on the axle tubes. This also means that the oil inside the axle assemblies will now orient differently, maybe the pinion oil seal will run dry, we will not know unless we work on it!

OK, 4 points are enough!

Now, the department which answers all these questions is called "Vehicle Integration" and those 4 points above were not even 10% of what we do. We are the guys who think like this and do this only, day in and day out. We just don't do anything else! We know exactly which engine mounting bracket (part number) and which transmission mounting cross member (part number) will give what articulation clearance with what factor of safety in which application. That's how we breathe life into a vehicle platform. Then, after all the effort, when customers do all sorts of funny things to the vehicles in the field, it hurts the vehicle and it does not work! I think now you will appreciate my comments.

Therefore, your question - "what is the best engine combination for XD3P powered Bolero without changing the gearbox? Any other engine than SZ2600 PLUS?" - I will choose for it to remain unanswered by me, in absence of input data like the installation drawing of the engine etc. I cannot and I will not guide you incorrectly. Please excuse me on this.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
DHABHAR.BEHRAM is offline   (21) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Turbo? NOS? Engine Swap? High CR NA build? How would you modify your engine? mclaren1885 Modifications & Accessories 61 13th July 2016 15:49
Bolero XDP Engine Vs Bolero DI Turbo Red Liner What Car? 34 30th September 2015 21:37
Safari TCIC 2.0 Engine swap with 3.0L DICOR Engine gd1418 Modifications & Accessories 34 6th July 2009 15:12
Engine Swap Maverick3136 Modifications & Accessories 1 8th October 2004 08:16


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 15:02.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks