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Old 20th July 2015, 12:45   #166
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Default Re: Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing

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Originally Posted by man23ish View Post
I called up India Garage in Bangalore and asked them to send a list of the features in an email. Here is what he sent me. 1.ABS PLASTIC BUMPERS / 2.ABS NEW REAR BUMPERS / 3.NEW CLEAR HEAD LAMPS / 4.NEW SIDE FOOT STEPS / 5.NEW REDESIGNED REMOVAL CANOPY / 6.NEW MECHANICAL LOCKING REAR DIFFERENTIAL / 7.STYLISH DUAL COLOUR BIEGE INTERIOR / 8.PREMIUM NEW SEATS / 9.NEW DOOR ITEMS WITH ARM RESTS / 10.NEW STEERING WHEEL / 11.NEW 3-POD INSTRUMENT CLUSTER / 12.MULTI DIRECTIONAL A/C / 13.NEW WINDSHIELD DEMESTER FOR HEAT AND COLD / 14.NEW GEAR KNOB / 15.NEW LOCKABLE GLOVE BOX / 16.PROVISION 2DIN AUDIO SYSTEM / 17.NEW FLOOR CONSOLE WITH CUP HOLDERS / 18.INDEPENDENT COIL SPRING SUSPENSION. Manish
Dear Man23ish and all - my comments are as follows (I couldn't help it. ):

Items numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17 do not promote the 4WD DNA in any way. These are "program deliverables for filling budgets and timelines and aligning this project in the larger scheme of things". Take number 14, what is the point in giving a gear lever knob that tries to look like an automatic transmission vehicle knob, does not look good as the color, the etching and the shine are completely off and one that you can't even hold properly? Oh come on now! The customers will remove most of these (plastic) things and throw them away in any case! Still, huge amounts would have been spent, and presentations galore would have been made in "XYZ" / "ABC" / "PQR" conference rooms, hahaha! Number 5 (canopy) has a lot of potential, and if done properly, it adds real value, otherwise there is no use spoiling the timeless shape of the MM540. Number 6 (MLD), if done properly, is priceless, and finally makes the vehicle a real 4WD. I really hope it is done properly (and not some kit, imported and fitted, with logistics getting 99% of the attention, instead of actual reliability) because in any MLD, the differential becomes 2 pinion from 4 pinion to accommodate the MLD pawl and ratchet mechanism. I hope that actual reliability in engineering terms will be ensured, and not the reliability of "Sir, so many great escapes done Sir, Sir, no issue Sir blah blah", otherwise its going to come with its own set of issues. If 18 indeed happens (I hope so), it will be the fallout of the new chassis strategy. If at all, then let's see how the whole package behaves in terms of high speed cruise R&H (ride and handling) at 160 kmph+!

Dear Nilay and Parm (hi there) - ask yourself now, how many of the above things from 1 through 18 actually have "Actionable Auto-Passion" () screaming out of them? I don't even have to give the answer. In order to recover the "business case" (ahem!), unit cost will be "expected to" go up, if price is not increased, something called "differential contribution" will come up. Then it will be upto the customer, how much he absorbs? Interesting! I hope one more doesn't bite the dust, with "I told you so", doing the rounds!

YOU JUST CANNOT PRICE-OUT THE CUSTOMER!

In any case, as they say at M/cDonalds, "I'm lovin' it"! Enjoy! I'm very happy working with multi-axle monsters, in the end, they only bring in the moolah!



Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by Eddy : 20th July 2015 at 14:02. Reason: Extra smiley
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Old 20th July 2015, 13:23   #167
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Default Re: Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing

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Originally Posted by Nilay View Post
I wish dhabhar sir would come with Sumo 4x4 with 2.2L Dicor along with LSD, some interior tweak, better seats,16 inch 245 tyre, Front projector head lamp some what like this
Whoa, that is one Hot Sumo!!!
Wish it was a real market offering from Tata.
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Old 20th July 2015, 13:42   #168
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Default Re: Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing

My take on the changes that seem to be proposed:

I welcome the improvements proposed overall - though I wonder how much of this is actually true especially the rear changeover from leaf springs to coil springs: The Coil springs would be more comfortable for sure plus since this is not really a high load vehicle the rear maybe does not require leaf springs.

Even for an Offroader that may / will actually be taken off road, creature comforts and appearances matter.

Going for Beige interiors in an off roader like the thar (unless they use a really dark tan or camel kind of shade) is probably not a great idea.

But since numbers would come only through mass purchases implying very limited to negligible off-road use by the newer set of buyers they do need to create a quality product: where the bonnet latches and external bolts are NOT rusting on day 1, where the seats are comfortable on the way to a potential off-road location, and where in daily use during the monsoon one does not have the front windshield fog up.

Yes even the music system matters as does having a good AC (which is already taken care of). The Music system and speakers though in the spirit of Off-roading should be mounted high enough to not be spoilt in going through slush. Not having a factory fitted AC at the time of launch was an error in my view and a result of a hurried launch and incorrect market requirement capture.

Yep plastic bumpers may be counter productive but in the interest of pedestrian safety a certain amount of plastic upfront is mandated. A genuine off-roader can always remove the plastic parts before taking the vehicle off-road.

At higher speeds (70 kmph+) the plastic upfront through it's contours can help in reducing wind drag and sound considerably - Not that this will necessarily be upfront in the minds of M&M team while designing these components.

I would go as far as to suggest that front Airbags (which can be switched off while off-roading) too should have been provided.

Yes costs matter, the current one is over priced for what it offers and the new one with improvements will extend the trend even further.

Given that the new Bolero is expected soon M&M would already have at it's access new front exterior as well as Dashboard and centre console components of a much more modern design. They should incorporate these itself into the THAR. The current front look while a classic even the Original JEEP has moved ahead to a more modern look in times, there is no need for the Thar to stick to the classic looks. (Yes this will not be a popular idea but the right level of modernity can be builtin)

Mahindra will never be able to sell a pure off-road vehicle in sufficient numbers till it can ALSO cater to the softer lot of purchasers who buy such a vehicle for the experience and show aspect rather than to actually take it through the grind. The key is getting the right balance.
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Old 20th July 2015, 16:48   #169
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Default Re: Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
I'm very happy working with multi-axle monsters, in the end, they only bring in the moolah!



Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Doesn't 2 driven axle monsters also qualify as Multiaxle one's? Or specifically 3+ axles are being spoken about?
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Old 20th July 2015, 17:20   #170
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Default Re: Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
1. Not having a factory fitted AC at the time of launch was an error in my view and a result of a hurried launch and incorrect market requirement capture. 2. Costs matter, the current one is over priced for what it offers and the new one with improvements will extend the trend even further. 3. Mahindra will never be able to sell a pure off-road vehicle in sufficient numbers till it can also cater to the softer lot of purchasers who buy such a vehicle for the experience and show aspect rather than to actually take it through the grind. The key is getting the right balance.
Dear ACM - hello after a very long time!

1. You are absolutely correct, smiley is more than justified here, hahaha! .
2. Yes, the game is in striking this cost balance, and its easier said than done, many fall prey to corporate nonsense here because nuisance-bearing bean counters are a dime a dozen out there!
3. You are again absolutely correct, clarity on "customer-segmentation" is a primary requirement here and that comes only from human intellect, not from fancy presentations which more often than not hide the true business model. Why? I wish I knew!

Quote: the only two things that nobody in this world can take away from you is your "akkal" (intellect) and your "mehnat" (hard work)!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 21st July 2015, 23:37   #171
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Default Re: Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing

Someone posted this on a Facebook group. I am shocked!!!
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Old 22nd July 2015, 00:08   #172
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Default Re: Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post

Mahindra will never be able to sell a pure off-road vehicle in sufficient numbers till it can ALSO cater to the softer lot of purchasers who buy such a vehicle for the experience and show aspect rather than to actually take it through the grind. The key is getting the right balance.
You know, this is a GOLDEN statement and I 100% agree with this. Segmentation is so flawed with the THAR that people who wanted a show off or I own a JEEP category were just thrown away in catering to the off road crowd which are far too few as compared to what could have been achieved with hitting the soft crowd.

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Someone posted this on a Facebook group. I am shocked!!!
Looks absolutely HIDEOUS. It's like someone taped its mouth for it to shut up.

Last edited by humyum : 22nd July 2015 at 00:09.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 00:13   #173
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Default Re: Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Someone posted this on a Facebook group. I am shocked!!!
Same here, completely shell shocked

Never expected this sort of a job!

Otherwise don't the shut lines appear tighter & panel gaps reduced ?
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Old 22nd July 2015, 01:48   #174
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Default Re: Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing

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Originally Posted by navpreet318 View Post
Someone posted this on a Facebook group. I am shocked!!!
I am glad they're doing this to the new Thar coz then old will always remain gold when it comes to resale value.

On the interiors, the beige is one thing but the center AC vent positioning beats me. The older ones had a problem that the angle couldn't be adjusted enough to have the blower directed towards either of the front occupants. Now, with the small circular vents, it's going to be another fight to get it oriented correctly. Another thing that is a big possibility is the issues due to condensation that will impact the audio install right above the AC vents. On cool days, I have water all over my dashboard if the thermostat is kept to the coolest position, I don't think that will necessarily change with the new model.

Net-net, this glamorized version will still have takers but it'll also create a good resale market for the older version since most of these atrocious new mods aren't easily reversible.

Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing-tharac.jpg
Image Source: Facebook
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Old 22nd July 2015, 05:46   #175
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Default Re: Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing

Another one from Facebook.

No Coil Spring for the Rear. Can't see the front.
And still stuck with the Salisbury axle when the whole lineup of Mahindra vehicles have moved to the better Banjo structure. What a golden chance missed by Mahindra.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 07:13   #176
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Default Re: Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing

We knew this was coming, but it still doesn't take away the shock factor. The old Thar looked pretty good from a distance at least, now Mahindra have taken away that too.

But, this can be fixed easily. What gets my goat is the beige.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 07:24   #177
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Default Re: Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing

The front bumpers are hideous. I always knew this would happen, there is no way that they could have nice looking ABS bumpers on a vehicle like the Thar. Fortunately, this is easy to rip out.

I like the fender flares and the way the indicators integrate into them. But would have preferred the design to have less flowing curves. These don't even mirror the lines of the fender in the front part, like they should.

Side step tubes are a welcome change. Much better than the aluminum steps they had earlier.

The dashboard is useless. No space to put a few knick-knacks like one can do on the older thar. Here, everything will just fall down. The beige is just looking horrendous.

Now they will hike up the prices, but these changes will appeal to a lot more people hence they will sell more as well. More thars on the road with the "hip" and "cool" crowd .. damn, the "jeep wave" just got a lot more irrelevant. Glad i bought the 540, a worthy successor to my thar.

More pics below, pulled off some FB groups.
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Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing-fb_img_1437529386420.jpg  

Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing-fb_img_1437529349615.jpg  


Last edited by manveet : 22nd July 2015 at 07:41.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 08:30   #178
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Default Re: Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing

Frankly what I'm happy about is that they did not touch the metal body tub. It is stock. The plastics would be ripped off easily and can be made into a good looking handsome jeep. And as Manveet said, this is going to sell even more. As now family members would also agree to the new interiors rather than the old crude ones.
They have another seller in their hands. The cash registers would ring and the MBAs would be happy with their excel sheets.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 10:33   #179
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Default Re: Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing

Nothing much to worry about the facelifted Thar. The design cues are from the "chick magnet" & "mall crawler" bins, not from the off road basket. The first time this dandy thar goes off road its going to lose the bloated bumper and buxom mud guard flares. Then theres no other go xecept put in decent off road accessories. The bumper reminds me of the erstwhile Armada.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 22nd July 2015 at 11:10. Reason: Punctuation marks.
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Old 22nd July 2015, 10:47   #180
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Default Re: Scoop! Mahindra Thar Facelift spotted testing

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What I'm happy about is that they did not touch the metal body tub. It is stock. The plastics would be ripped off easily and can be made into a good looking handsome jeep.
Dear Navpreet - you are correct. They had to do what they did because the only other choice that they must have had was quietly discontinuing the vehicle which they have avoided for the time being at least ( by "they", I mean my friend in marketing - "thanks dude, what else could you do"?)!

Nobody will touch the body tub, because it is "corporately correct" not to touch it. The engineer who knew every single child part of the body with part numbers, who I worked with in Kandivli to amalgamate the Bolero dash panel and front floor panel into the MM platform retired in 2011. That guy was very passionate and wanted to do things. So, "we" had quietly obtained information on how to convert the MM540 shell to the "Wrangler looking" (ahem! ) shell. We know! Alas!

But there is always a silver lining. At least it is possible to remove all the external nonsense and throw it out. That front bumper makes me hit myself! I can still "smell" the vendor's name in Nasik who does the "fender flares"! The new fender flares are at best "unimaginative"!

Also, the leaf springs stay (I expected them to)! Also see the underfloor photograph. I can still see the fuel lines haphazardly routed underfloor. The external slave cylinder is still there. They are not interested in raising the bar. Sad! .

Old Thar CRDe vehicles in "absolutely original" condition will become collectors' items, sooner than you think! I guess one day you'll be able to get at least a 1BHK price for it! Hahaha!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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