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Old 1st April 2015, 19:20   #61
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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I cant tell you about the newer, fuel injected and more powerful Gypsy King's performance in the same terrain as i have had no experience with it. But you may take a look at the wheel articulation aspect. With grippy tyres the Gypsy may just make it.
Our fellow BHPian avrendu has a Thar and a Gypsy. His Thar (Red) does the climbs pretty easily in our test track that you can see in the video here. The very first video in the opening post of this thread by BlackPearl shows that his Gypsy had a little hard time climbing the same slope with the same driver (avrendu) behind the wheel. The Gypsy has Yokohama Geolanders which is has enough bite on the kind of surface our test track has.

That made us come to the conclusion that Gypsy is going to be a risky contender on the road to Sandakphu because of the following reasons.
  1. Low torque of the petrol mill of the Gypsy makes such steep climb difficult. One needs to maintain higher speed for a successful climb to compensate for this lack of torque which can be risky in the real situation.
  2. Light weight reduces traction which can be dangerous. But this drawback can be overcome by loading some extra stuffs on board.
  3. Lack of power steering makes Gypsy hard to maneuver increasing the risk factor to a higher degree.
  4. Lacking wheel articulation also adds to the risk factor by reducing the total contact surface.
  5. The use of one of good A/T tyres is not enough to compensate for the issues described above.

In short, a newer Gypsy will also suffer going up to Sandakphu.


Last edited by psurelia : 1st April 2015 at 19:22. Reason: Made some text bold for easier visual experience.
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Old 1st April 2015, 21:56   #62
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

I am glued to this thread ! The single largest deal maker for my next purchase (a few years down the line) is going to be the ability to do Sandakphu. I have trekked to Sandakhpu around 9 years back and it is definitely the most challenging drive in this part of the country.
If I had to buy a car right now, I would chose between the Scorpio s4 4WD or the Thar. Kind of sceptical of the Duster due to the monocoque construction but the weight advantage and tight turning radius is something not to be ignored.
Considering the Sandakphu route does not have much of slush / sand to get bogged down, will a fully loaded Duster AWD (4pax + luggage) with AT tyres still face the traction problem ?
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Old 1st April 2015, 22:15   #63
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

Will this particular terrain require more than what is shown in this video below? Nope i have not even gone to any place close to that area


Last edited by Jaggu : 1st April 2015 at 22:17.
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Old 1st April 2015, 22:52   #64
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Will this particular terrain require more than what is shown in this video below? Nope i have not even gone to any place close to that area

The terrain is different. Whereas in this video, there are challenging obstacles, unfortunately most of it does not involve steep slopes over longer stretches.

If you watch the section at elapsed time 4:25, the slope is probably a little less than that (but in the video that slope lasts for about 10 meters or so) but on the way to S'phu, it goes for around 1.5kms at a stretch (with hairpins), then settles down for a bit about 500 meters for the final climb of 1 km. There is another slope at 6:00 which isn't much in terms of slope.

Here is a look at part of the switchbacks, probably around 800 meters.

Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?-img_0886.jpg

Just before shooting this snap, I had a fall as my foot slipped on the rocks, not to blame my footwear (The car is held in place in gear, with a stone as a wedge)

Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?-img_1088.jpg

However on my last visit there, part of this is concretised.

Now coming back to the video, in the terrain, they have used momentum at a lot of places, which will not be possible here. Besides, we do not know which engine is in which car.

However, as far as the specs go, as I have pointed earlier, it does favour the Duster.

On a different note, can they make the Dacia grille as an optional accesory here. The Dacia guise looks sweet.
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Old 1st April 2015, 23:07   #65
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

My vote is yes, i have driven the 4x4 version and it does NOT have the turbo lag issue, with a bit of throttle modulation and clutch it will climb easy. Only the turns one has to be careful.

With a fast revving VGT and the decent map the 4x4 comes it should take the longer stretches also. Key will be the spotter and on difficult patch a foot recce by the driver before he attempts it.
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Old 1st April 2015, 23:40   #66
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Will this particular terrain require more than what is shown in this video below?
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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
The terrain is different.
... there are challenging obstacles, unfortunately most of it does not involve steep slopes over longer stretches.
...
Now coming back to the video, in the terrain, they have used momentum at a lot of places, which will not be possible here.
I'm going to take this video with a pinch of salt. The company seems to claim that the Duster has a gradeability of 38 degrees (see screenshot). A Pajero Sport / Fortuner has a gradeability of 35 degrees, and a Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland has 36 degrees - both with much bigger engines and low range gearboxes.

Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?-picsart_1427910509009.jpg

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 1st April 2015 at 23:44.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 01:53   #67
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
I'm going to take this video with a pinch of salt. The company seems to claim that the Duster has a gradeability of 38 degrees (see screenshot). A Pajero Sport / Fortuner has a gradeability of 35 degrees, and a Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland has 36 degrees - both with much bigger engines and low range gearboxes.

Attachment 1356310
I don't know what do you find so surprising, Gradeability is a combination of lot of factors and not just gearboxes and low ranges.

Tata Nano neither has a diesel, neither has the low end torque of a turbo diesel, neither a low range gearbox, it's gradeability is 30 degrees. Compare that to the Tata Safari Storm, which has one of 26 degrees.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 01:57   #68
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Wink Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
I don't know what do you find so surprising, Gradeability is a combination of lot of factors and not just gearboxes and low ranges.

Tata Nano neither has a diesel, neither has the low end torque of a turbo diesel, neither a low range gearbox, it's gradeability is 30 degrees. Compare that to the Tata Safari Storm, which has one of 26 degrees.
Check your facts again. The Nano has a 30% gradeability which is entirely different from 30 degrees.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 09:41   #69
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Check your facts again. The Nano has a 30% gradeability which is entirely different from 30 degrees.
Your this post (Water Wading Depth of the Safari, XUV500, Duster etc.) has grabbed lots of eye balls, maybe a thread dedicated to climbing ability per gradient should help determine many, prior to approaching an obstacle.

I think AT tires should be suffice. 1100D's 4WD Scorpio had Michelin AT's IIRC.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 10:28   #70
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
I'm going to take this video with a pinch of salt.
You can sir but there are many other video's by private individuals which has tougher terrain being tackled with slightly better tires etc. I picked the one closest to stock

Trust me this vehicle in the hands of a good driver can kick some serious dust.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 10:45   #71
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Check your facts again. The Nano has a 30% gradeability which is entirely different from 30 degrees.
Oh sorry, I missed out on that. Call it night blindness, never the less, there are many more examples to give.



A lawn mover does a 30 degree slope. Not that difficult is it ?

Secondly with a little bit of momentum, I don't think the climb will be much of a problem for a Duster like the video clearly shows in which it is shown to climb a 38 degree slope. The newer Dusters have a shorter 1st gear too, couple that with a 4WD, letting all the wheels do the pushing, with the right driver, nothing is not conquerable.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 11:20   #72
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Secondly with a little bit of momentum....
You won't have this luxury seeing the kind of road condition that particular terrain has (rocks, too tight corners & slopes) Many videos have shown, momentum being a reason to climb slopes, I don't think you can build momentum on that particular road.

I can't really comment on Sandakphu as I have not been, but of all vehicles running on a monocoque and having an AWD, Duster seems to be the closest contender.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 11:33   #73
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
Coming back to the topic of Duster AWD and Sandakphu, to find out what happened next, check out this video
Just one question, referring to the "Duster AWD mid-slope stop and go test" video, I somehow always failed to ask, the Duster AWD has the hill-start-assist feature, but why does this vehicle roll back in the video?

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Big thanks to BlackPearl for inviting me and inducting me to the 4x4 club! Your cadet will make you proud by taking Chameleon (aka Girgiti) to Phalut! Getting down from there might be trickier though! :P

Plans are on for this year itself. But it will definitely need more practice sessions before trying that - so eagerly looking forward to my next trial!
@GhostRider28 (Sayantan),I have heard that the vehicle was inoperational for sometime at the workshop. If True, Can you share some detail.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
I'm going to take this video with a pinch of salt. The company seems to claim that the Duster has a gradeability of 38 degrees (see screenshot). A Pajero Sport / Fortuner has a gradeability of 35 degrees, and a Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland has 36 degrees - both with much bigger engines and low range gearboxes.
This seems to be a private video. Would be interesting to see what Gradability Renault/Dacia has officially claimed (if at all).
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Old 2nd April 2015, 12:18   #74
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

[quote=1100D;3676882]Just one question, referring to the "Duster AWD mid-slope stop and go test" video, I somehow always failed to ask, the Duster AWD has the hill-start-assist feature, but why does this vehicle roll back in the video?

Maybe the time it takes to heel & toe.
Hill hold is usually active for 4-5 seconds depending on manufacturer and vehicle.
It activates only after you have kept the brake pedal pressed for 3 seconds, with no throttle blipping / input. A shift of a second here & there will deactivate the hill hold for the rollback.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 12:25   #75
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Just one question, referring to the "Duster AWD mid-slope stop and go test" video, I somehow always failed to ask, the Duster AWD has the hill-start-assist feature, but why does this vehicle roll back in the video?
@1100D - Hill start assist holds the vehicle for close to 2 seconds, after which the vehicle starts to roll back. But I must confess that I have not experimented enough with that feature. Sometimes I have also seen that the lock releases once I touch the accelerator. I have been following my old school parking brake habit on ramps etc, but I will experiment with this and report back.

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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
@GhostRider28 (Sayantan),I have heard that the vehicle was inoperational for sometime at the workshop. If True, Can you share some detail.
The original ECU was faulty and had to be replaced, but the incident had a lot of Renault style paraphernalia assciated with it! (and I had to travel right after it happened).
I have written about it in detail in the initial ownership review that I have drafted. I was not having time to finish it due to my travel schedule and year end pressure. Will definitely post it by this weekend.
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