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Old 2nd April 2015, 22:35   #91
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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Did you do the test in reverse also?
And did you check out the ability of the handbrake to hold the vehicle? In both directions.
I have told it before and I am saying it again, you have those stars underneath your name for a reason!! Excellent point that I completely missed. The reversing has to be checked. The handbrake alone was not able to hold the vehicle, but then the ground was dusty. The route to Sandakphu is rocky, so handbrake should work.


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One thing I must add: I am not at all happy about hordes of people trying to do Sandakphu in their own vehicle. This directly threatens the livelihood of the Land Rover group, and if they perceive it as a major threat, they will prevent outsiders cars from going. Much like the Sikkim taxi mafia.

Regards
Sutripta
I agree to your point but then the question arises on why should there be such monopoly in the first place.

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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Just one question, referring to the "Duster AWD mid-slope stop and go test" video, I somehow always failed to ask, the Duster AWD has the hill-start-assist feature, but why does this vehicle roll back in the video?
Ghostrider28 might be in a better position to reply this as I have no idea how it works in the duster and whether it was activated or not or if there is any option to activate/deactivate it.

Last edited by aah78 : 2nd April 2015 at 23:19. Reason: Posts merged.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 23:19   #92
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
Ghostrider28 might be in a better position to reply this as I have no idea how it works in the duster and whether it was activated or not or if there is any option to activate/deactivate it.
Hill Start Assist Holds the brakes for around 2 seconds after you release the brake pedal with the clutch pedal depressed, this makes it possible to start on a incline without using handbrake. There is no manual switch unlike Hill descent control.
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Old 3rd April 2015, 11:45   #93
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
See what you have started!


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and if they perceive it as a major threat, they will prevent outsiders cars from going. Much like the Sikkim taxi mafia.
But then Sikkim has already done this & I am sure, many places will follow suit. There is something similar started in, up north, unsure of the place.

I can't go to places in my own country

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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
I agree to your point but then the question arises on why should there be such monopoly in the first place.
This has been started & I am sure many unions will start following this. And then one day you will have to park your Thar @ Siliguri and catch a taxi or explore on a Motorcycle.

There should be some criteria for vehicles wanting to go to off-beat places. You never know when Sandakphu might go on that list or other lovely places.
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Old 3rd April 2015, 12:30   #94
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

Noob question and not sure if it applies to the context of 'pure adrenaline driven' driving expeditions. All AWD vehicles mentioned here are manual drives but AWD's are also available in Automatics, if I am not wrong. Wouldn't driving an automatic with assistive vehicle electronics give such vehicles a fair chance of going through the terrain in a much easier manner? I do not mean any disrespect to the drivers (conquerors) of such formidable terrain nor the terrain itself, but this is just a thought that comes to me considering the slopes, stop-start, and reverse hill start situations?
Mods- if this post is not in context of the topic here or does not add value to the conversation, please feel free to delete. Thanks
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Old 3rd April 2015, 12:38   #95
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by 4nd3r50n View Post
but AWD's are also available in Automatics, if I am not wrong. Wouldn't driving an automatic with assistive vehicle electronics give such vehicles a fair chance of going through the terrain in a much easier manner? considering the slopes, stop-start, and reverse hill start situations?
When you talk about Automatics, you are faced with probably two different types, which one are you referring to

1> Automatic Gearbox
2> Automatic actuation of AWD system (from a default Front wheel/Rear wheel drive drivetrain)
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Old 3rd April 2015, 13:38   #96
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by 4nd3r50n View Post
All AWD vehicles mentioned here are manual drives but AWD's are also available in Automatics, if I am not wrong. Wouldn't driving an automatic with assistive vehicle electronics give such vehicles a fair chance of going through the terrain in a much easier manner?
Few years back, i tried a steep hill with lose soil in a Mitsubishi Outlander (AWD automatic) and it resulted into clutch burning.
Few months later, i cleared same slope in monsoon in Santro with full throttle type driving, later in the night same outlander burnt clutch trying to clear the same incline which Santro cleared.
In all above cases, driver was same, me !

Regards,
Shubhendra
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Old 3rd April 2015, 14:09   #97
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

Quote:
When you talk about Automatics, you are faced with probably two different types, which one are you referring to

1> Automatic Gearbox
2> Automatic actuation of AWD system (from a default Front wheel/Rear wheel drive drivetrain)
I was primarily referring to the Automatic gearbox with manual or automatic AWD actuation systems. For this terrain, I would assume that you are on AWD at all times.
For instance, the Yeti that's available in Europe and the Land Rover Discovery has these systems, afaik.

Quote:
Few years back, i tried a steep hill with lose soil in a Mitsubishi Outlander (AWD automatic) and it resulted into clutch burning.
Few months later, i cleared same slope in monsoon in Santro with full throttle type driving, later in the night same outlander burnt clutch trying to clear the same incline which Santro cleared.
In all above cases, driver was same, me !
That confuses me. Isn't the Outlander supposed to 'Outland'? If a steep hill burns it's clutch then why call it an off-roader? Do manufacturer's specify what terrain an off-roader can handle and what it cannot? In that case, should we safely assume that automatic drivetrains are just not capable of handling difficult terrain even if they are advertised to do so?
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Old 3rd April 2015, 14:26   #98
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by 4nd3r50n View Post
In that case, should we safely assume that automatic drivetrains are just not capable of handling difficult terrain even if they are advertised to do so?
No, it is not safe to assume automatic drivetrains are just not capable of handling difficult terrain. You might incur the wrath of a very fit 6'8" tall gentleman.

See this AT vehicle, and what it can do: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ml#post3037516 (Modifying my Endeavour 3.0 4x4 AT for Off Roading!)
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Old 3rd April 2015, 14:44   #99
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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No, it is not safe to assume automatic drivetrains are just not capable of handling difficult terrain. You might incur the wrath of a very fit 6'8" tall gentleman.

See this AT vehicle, and what it can do: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ml#post3037516 (Modifying my Endeavour 3.0 4x4 AT for Off Roading!)
But this generates a lot of interest for me to possess an 'automatic' off-roader, albeit with the knowledge that it might need suitable modifications to actually do some serious offroading.
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Old 3rd April 2015, 14:50   #100
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by 4nd3r50n View Post
That confuses me. Isn't the Outlander supposed to 'Outland'? If a steep hill burns it's clutch then why call it an off-roader? Do manufacturer's specify what terrain an off-roader can handle and what it cannot? In that case, should we safely assume that automatic drivetrains are just not capable of handling difficult terrain even if they are advertised to do so?
Sir,
Dont mix AWD vehicles and 4WD vehicles. Both are way different from each other.
Having low ratio in 4WD vehicles is great and a must for offroading (Offroading not Softroading)

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
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Old 3rd April 2015, 15:03   #101
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Sir,
Dont mix AWD vehicles and 4WD vehicles. Both are way different from each other.
Having low ratio in 4WD vehicles is great and a must for offroading (Offroading not Softroading)
My fault, I mean 4WD and not AWD. Apologies for the mistake.
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Old 3rd April 2015, 15:35   #102
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by 4nd3r50n View Post
For instance, the Yeti that's available in Europe and the Land Rover Discovery has these systems, afaik.

If you backward reference to this post of mine.

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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
The car for sure.

This part of the calculation regarding the Yeti (with Scorpio's weight taken as 2080 as against 1920), was actually suggesting quite the opposite to an observation regarding the Yeti's performance on the same route, that too between Gairibash and Kaiyakatta (Gairibash is about 11 kms from S'phu)

Attachment 1356136

Another interesting observation was, though the Scorpio has the same GC as the Yeti at 180mm, there has been no bottom-scraping on the Scorp.

The Yeti turned back.
The Yeti hasn't been successful. However that should not be a cause to infer that other similar Automatic AWD systems would not succeed.

Like say for example, A discovery might be too big to make it, that does not mean, its AWD system is suspect.

There were various factors involved, like the Gearing that Skoda has chosen (despite having huge torque advantage), the Ground Clearance, the engine state of tune and rev restrictions in offroad mode and probably the final nail being warning lights in dashboard.

But on the otherhand, we have reasons to believe that the Duster 4X4 will succeed.

So choosing your AWD/4WD would be best decided by what you want from it.
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Old 3rd April 2015, 15:44   #103
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
Few years back, i tried a steep hill with lose soil in a Mitsubishi Outlander (AWD automatic) and it resulted into clutch burning.
Few months later, i cleared same slope in monsoon in Santro with full throttle type driving, later in the night same outlander burnt clutch trying to clear the same incline which Santro cleared.
In all above cases, driver was same, me !

Regards,
Shubhendra
Was it the CVT belt slipping and generating heat rather then a burnt clutch? One of the drawbacks of the CVT is that it can't handle high torque.
With the automatics with torque converter, there is no possibility of clutch burning (as there is no clutch) but I guess the AT oil can get impacted under high operating temperature which results in a breakdown.
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Old 3rd April 2015, 16:25   #104
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Was it the CVT belt slipping and generating heat rather then a burnt clutch? One of the drawbacks of the CVT is that it can't handle high torque.
With the automatics with torque converter, there is no possibility of clutch burning (as there is no clutch) but I guess the AT oil can get impacted under high operating temperature which results in a breakdown.
I have almost nil experience with automatic vehicles, but smell emanating from Outlander was similar to clutch burn. The vehicle was behaving like driven in half clutch.
And just to clear the dust, my 2WD Safari also couldnt clear that incline just because of shear weight, soft suspension.

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
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Old 3rd April 2015, 16:44   #105
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Default Re: Can the Duster AWD scale Sandakphu, the highest peak in West Bengal?

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Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
I have almost nil experience with automatic vehicles, but smell emanating from Outlander was similar to clutch burn. The vehicle was behaving like driven in half clutch.
And just to clear the dust, my 2WD Safari also couldnt clear that incline just because of shear weight, soft suspension.

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh
With the Outlander, it could be simply the rubber band effect of the CVT + the smell coming from the heated up belts.
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