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Old 4th October 2007, 16:01   #1
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Default Offroad specifications of Bolero 4x4

hi,
Does any one have an idea about the off road figures below?

1. Axle articultion (RTI figures)?
2. Approach & departure angles?
3. Fording depth?
4. Can i change the length of shakle pins for eg replacing the shakles of 4wd bolero rear with 2wd bolero for better suspension travel? (2wd bolero has longer shakel pin than 4wd rear)
5. Replace the short shakels of bolero front with that of longer ones of 4wd MM550 XDB army?
6. Lean angle?
7. Max gradability?

Planning to buy one please help....

REgards,
N.Vinod
Chennai
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Old 5th October 2007, 11:26   #2
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Default M&M Bolero

1. Axle articultion (RTI figures)? - We are yet to start calculating RTI in India

2. Approach & departure angles? - My guess Approach 35 Degrees, Departure 40 Degrees

3. Fording depth? unprepared 500-600mm

4. Can i change the length of shakle pins for eg replacing the shakles of 4wd bolero rear with 2wd bolero for better suspension travel? (2wd bolero has longer shakel pin than 4wd rear) - The Bolero's Come with the Longest Shackles in the M&M series, also increasing the shackle length will cause additonal stress on the chassis, suspension and the axles.

5. Replace the short shakels of bolero front with that of longer ones of 4wd MM550 XDB army? - Same as above

6. Lean angle? my guess 35 degrees

7. Max gradability? another guess 65%

Regards,

Arka

PS - if you are buying a new Bolero go for the DI 4WD, check the E-Brochure on the Bolero site.
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Old 5th October 2007, 14:04   #3
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Default Bolero

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
1. Axle articultion (RTI figures)? - We are yet to start calculating RTI in India

2. Approach & departure angles? - My guess Approach 35 Degrees, Departure 40 Degrees

3. Fording depth? unprepared 500-600mm

4. Can i change the length of shakle pins for eg replacing the shakles of 4wd bolero rear with 2wd bolero for better suspension travel? (2wd bolero has longer shakel pin than 4wd rear) - The Bolero's Come with the Longest Shackles in the M&M series, also increasing the shackle length will cause additonal stress on the chassis, suspension and the axles.

5. Replace the short shakels of bolero front with that of longer ones of 4wd MM550 XDB army? - Same as above

6. Lean angle? my guess 35 degrees

7. Max gradability? another guess 65%

Regards,

Arka

PS - if you are buying a new Bolero go for the DI 4WD, check the E-Brochure on the Bolero site.
Hi arka,

Thanks for the figures. I have my own doubts on few-

1. Boleros front over hang is lesser than rear, hence the approach angle must be higher inst it?

2. Carefully observe the shakel lengths of a MM550 XDB ARMY and a that of a regular bolero. Boleros have shorter shakels front & rear..

3. ALso the length of the rear leaf is different between a 4wd bolero & 2wd bolero. 2wd has longer leaf and so is the shakel length. Why different lengths?

4. Also fording depth of 500-600mm is as much as that of a defender! check the site- Land Rover - Welcome to Land Rover . Is Bolero that capable?

5. Any guess why is that there is such huge front & rear track difference between front & rear axles, almost up to 90mm? Generally we see a difference of not more than 5 mm in other automobiles.

6. Lastly i had enquired if bolero DI with a/c & p/s was available with 4wd? Mahindras answer was NO!!! Only SLX is available with 4wd and with Peugeot 2.5 IDI engine. They say peugeot engine is better suited for offroad power demand due to wider spread of torque & power. What does your experience say?


regards,

Vinod
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Old 6th October 2007, 17:16   #4
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Default Of BOLEROS

1. Boleros front over hang is lesser than rear, hence the approach angle must be higher inst it? - You could be right, these are my guess-timates but the newer i.e facelited Bolero has a lesser Approach Angle than the older Bolero.

2. Carefully observe the shakel lengths of a MM550 XDB ARMY and a that of a regular bolero. Boleros have shorter shakels front & rear. - Again you maybe right, it could be an optical illusion as the MM550XDs Stand Taller and the Boleros are much Lower, If you give me figures, it will give it to you.

3. ALso the length of the rear leaf is different between a 4wd bolero & 2wd bolero. 2wd has longer leaf and so is the shakel length. Why different lengths? - The M&M Parts List says there is no difference between the Rear Leaf Springs on the 2WD Bolero or a 4WD Bolero.

4. Also fording depth of 500-600mm is as much as that of a defender! check the site- Land Rover - Welcome to Land Rover . Is Bolero that capable? - Why Not - I can even show you a video of a Bolero Camper fording water Head Light Deep.

5. Any guess why is that there is such huge front & rear track difference between front & rear axles, almost up to 90mm? Generally we see a difference of not more than 5 mm in other automobiles. - I have no idea of the figure, but That is to improve stability and cornering.

6. Lastly i had enquired if bolero DI with a/c & p/s was available with 4wd? Mahindras answer was NO!!! - The E-Brochure mentions it, Show the brochure to them.

Only SLX is available with 4wd and with Peugeot 2.5 IDI engine. They say peugeot engine is better suited for offroad power demand due to wider spread of torque & power. What does your experience say?

Lets See

XD3P - 73 Bhp, Peak Torque 15.5Kgm@ 2000 Rpm - 4000Rpm - Usable Range 2000 rpm

MDI3200TC - 68BHP, Peak Torque 18Kgm @ 15-1800Rpm - 3300Rpm - Usable range 13-1500Rpm, there is a loss of 5-700 Rpm.

Hypothetically the MDI3200TC will generate 15kgm around 12-1500 Rpm (Which is enough to get a Bolero with XD3P moving) there again if we re-calculate for 15Kgm for a MDI3200TC then the RPM range is 12-1500 to 3300 i.e 2100Rpm to 1800Rpm

Then again the Diff-Ratios will vary

Diff-Ratio XD3P= 4.88:1
Diff-Ratio MDI3200TC = 3.73:1

I have driven 4WD Bolero Camper with MDI3200TC and a 4WD Bolero with XD3P.
The Camper with MDI3200TC has much more torque and it moves better and climbs better off-road.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 8th October 2007, 15:26   #5
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hi Arka

Thanks a lot for your insights. Even i love MDI 3200 TC makes right noise and much more flexible than before. Hope Mahindras would make it available on my request. Also tell me how is the ride quality on Bolero 4wd? I personally liked camper than bolero found it better riding, may be its my perception. Whats your experience? I severely miss P/S in camoer though.
Iam going to use my new bolero on highways, city more than off road. Its off road performance would be limited to participation in special events organised and ocassionally on beach in chennai. Hence on road performance matters a lot which includes reasonable acceleration and comfortable ride quality.Whats your advise?
Scorpio Getaway is 90k more expensive with 4wd but is much more refined. Is it worth a streatch?


regards,
Vinod
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Old 8th October 2007, 18:13   #6
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Approach Angle - 41 deg
Departure Angle - 21 deg
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Old 9th October 2007, 10:49   #7
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Road or Off-Road I personally prefer the 4WD Bolero.
The Camper will ride better because of the longer Wheel Base and its slightly heavier.

Also if you want Road Performance and off-road ability, its better to buy two separate vehicles.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 9th October 2007, 15:25   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Road or Off-Road I personally prefer the 4WD Bolero.
The Camper will ride better because of the longer Wheel Base and its slightly heavier.

Also if you want Road Performance and off-road ability, its better to buy two separate vehicles.

Regards,

Arka
2 vehicles would be a little to much of streatch!!! I presently have Indica DLG turbo. Planning to sell that and take Bolero 4wd. I also considered Invader 4wd Di but didnt like it. personally i feel mahindras should have put DI TC engine in MM540 and priced it lower. Invader Di retails at 6 lakhs on road almost. I feel it is not worth as much.

MM540 DI TC if produced would have had the following advantages-

1. They could have retained classic CJ 7 look which is now extinct from mahindra stable. I dont consider Max festera & other pik ups having CJ looks with a fibre put for so called enhancing look

2. Any day MM540 both in older chassis configuration had better axle articulation than present days invader

3. MM540 was a lighter machine, Di engine would have added not more than 60 kgs. Invader weighs 1575 kgs approx!!

4. Even the NGCS chassis on MM540 body with DI TC engine & P/S & 4wd as standard would have done wonders to the brand

5. Present MM550 Di major is a hand some machine, but getting in and out is a herculean task. Somebody try doing this on latest model vehicle with MDI TC 5 spd majors and u would agree with me.

I am even open to a 2002 4wd MM540 Dp. They came with I beam front suspension and were better built. XDP 4.90 engine on these machines were silent.

what do u say?
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Old 9th October 2007, 16:05   #9
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2. Any day MM540 both in older chassis configuration had better axle articulation than present days invader - The post 2004 MM550XD are NGCS

3. MM540 was a lighter machine, Di engine would have added not more than 60 kgs. Invader weighs 1575 kgs approx!! - True

4. Even the NGCS chassis on MM540 body with DI TC engine & P/S & 4wd as standard would have done wonders to the brand = MAHINDRA LEGEND@7.3Lakhs on-road

5. Present MM550 Di major is a hand some machine, but getting in and out is a herculean task. Somebody try doing this on latest model vehicle with MDI TC 5 spd majors and u would agree with me. - Its called CL550DI with the MDI3200TC

I am even open to a 2002 4wd MM540 Dp. They came with I beam front suspension and were better built. XDP 4.90 engine on these machines were silent. - all throughout its production & variants the MM540 series were I-Beam suspension (Tubular or Live-Axle)

Regards,

Arka
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Old 10th October 2007, 08:15   #10
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hi ,

I believe the legend was produced only in limited numbers and that to it was given on invitation basis. Also the Legend tested in auto car didnt have P/S though it had 4wd as standard. Tell me if legend is available for general public with P/S as standard. Without thinking i would go for it!!!!

Thanks for correcting me on CL 550 Di. As far as front axle of MM540 dp is concerned i meant latest MM540 dp when in production came with non yoke type front axle, which resembles I shape.


regards vinod
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Old 10th October 2007, 10:28   #11
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Default of MM540s & Legends

The LEGEND is still available, they created a hype that its on invitation.
For further info you can PM me.


The MM540s Had two types of Front Axle
1) Full-Floating Closed Knuckle with King Pin - 1985-2004

2) Full-Floating Open Knuckle with Ball-Joints - 2004 ( though this was introduced in 2001 on the Boleros)

Regards,

Arka
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Old 10th October 2007, 11:07   #12
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The ACI review of Legend: :: AUTOCAR INDIA - CAR AND BIKE MAGAZINE ::

When I was looking of an off-road/on-road jeep with good ride comfort, I used to have long talks with Arka. But the ride-comfort on-road was a major problem.

As Arka says there is no way you can get decent off-road/on-road jeep for below 20L in India, you have to pick two different vehicles for that purpose.
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Old 10th October 2007, 11:56   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
The LEGEND is still available, they created a hype that its on invitation.
For further info you can PM me.


The MM540s Had two types of Front Axle
1) Full-Floating Closed Knuckle with King Pin - 1985-2004

2) Full-Floating Open Knuckle with Ball-Joints - 2004 ( though this was introduced in 2001 on the Boleros)

Regards,

Arka

Hi, Many thanks for letting me know that the Legend is still available. But the primary question is Does it come with a P/s? This is some thing very important in city. I will manage to fit an A/c after market.

please give me the details na...

Regards,

Vinod
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Old 10th October 2007, 13:21   #14
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M&M Legend
Chassis - NGCS
Engine - MDI3200TC
GBox - Isuzu 5 Speed or NGT520 with t-Case
Steering - Re-Circulating Ball Manual - Can be easily swapped with a Bolero 4WD PS or a TATA Estate/SUMO PS
A/C - OEM

Personally Don't Worry too much about the PS, its better to use a Manual Steering for various reasons
1) better feel on & off-road
2) Better developed Shoulders, Arms and Neck
3) CHEAPER!!!!!!!

Regards,

Arka
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Old 10th October 2007, 13:52   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Personally Don't Worry too much about the PS, its better to use a Manual Steering for various reasons
1) better feel on & off-road
2) Better developed Shoulders, Arms and Neck
3) CHEAPER!!!!!!!

Regards,

Arka
..and SAFER too.

I own a BOLERO 2007 with PS and there is absolutely NO feedback from the road. One has to be really careful while turning at speeds exceeding city limits. The steering feels like it's not connected to anything.

But it's great while parking.
Is there a switch by which i can on/off the PS?

Can anything be done for a better feedback from the road?

-- Torqy
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