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Old 9th February 2008, 23:13   #1
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Default Tata off road vehicles

Hi all,
I'd like to know the experience of others BHPians with any TATA 4x4 vehicles.
I own a 4x4 pick-up and will like to share my experience in improvements and modifications for better off road use.
What kind of aftermarket products you have for TATA in your beautiful country?

Ciao!

Ignazio
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Old 10th February 2008, 13:14   #2
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Hi Ignazio,

I own a 2-wheel drive Tata Crew cab pick up truck. For most off-road enthusiasts in India, 4x4 Jeeps are the most commonly bought vehicles for a couple of reasons. 4x4 Jeeps have been manufactured by an India company called Mahindra for a number of years under license from Jeep. There are many reasonably priced older models available and since the version sold here are fairly basic they are cheaper to buy and maintain.

Tata never actively promoted their 4x4 vehicles in the Indian market. I haven't read of any members on this forum who owns a Tata 4x4 pick up. There was one guy who had listed his 4x4 crew cab pick up for sale. That's about it.

The other thing in India is there are no suppliers that sell off-road equipment like diff lockers, under body guards, lift kits, etc. Most are fabricated locally by the off-road enthusiasts. My Tata pick up is mostl used in the farm. For my off-road use I have a jeep.
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Old 10th February 2008, 14:25   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignazio View Post
Hi all,
I'd like to know the experience of others BHPians with any TATA 4x4 vehicles.
I own a 4x4 pick-up and will like to share my experience in improvements and modifications for better off road use.
What kind of aftermarket products you have for TATA in your beautiful country?
Do share your experiences, Ignazio - we're all ears. You chaps in Italy have really done some crazy stuff with Tata 4x4 vehicles including the Safari and the Pickup. Most people here are not aware of it.
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Old 10th February 2008, 17:28   #4
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Hi All!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Do share your experiences, Ignazio - we're all ears. You chaps in Italy have really done some crazy stuff with Tata 4x4 vehicles including the Safari and the Pickup. Most people here are not aware of it.
I'll do my best to share infos and experience! Certainly I will!
Steer, do you think will be any good to start a new thread in "Modifications and accessories" for parts available from Italy?

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Hi Ignazio,

I own a 2-wheel drive Tata Crew cab pick up truck. For most off-road enthusiasts in India, 4x4 Jeeps are the most commonly bought vehicles for a couple of reasons. 4x4 Jeeps have been manufactured by an India company called Mahindra for a number of years under license from Jeep. There are many reasonably priced older models available and since the version sold here are fairly basic they are cheaper to buy and maintain.

Tata never actively promoted their 4x4 vehicles in the Indian market. I haven't read of any members on this forum who owns a Tata 4x4 pick up. There was one guy who had listed his 4x4 crew cab pick up for sale. That's about it.

The other thing in India is there are no suppliers that sell off-road equipment like diff lockers, under body guards, lift kits, etc. Most are fabricated locally by the off-road enthusiasts. My Tata pick up is mostl used in the farm. For my off-road use I have a jeep.
I see... I knew that Mahindra was building Jeeps, but I had no view of what reality was... Is now more clear, thanks!
Nonetheless Tata is using axle, gear boxes and transfer cases that are originally designed in USA.
Axles are Dana Spicers, hence a relative good availability of aftermarket accessories (diff lock, etc.).
What Mahindra is it using on their drive train?
We also have a lack of aftermarket for the rest of the Tata parts, it seem that in Europe, Tata are used in Italy, UK and Spain only, then nobody is investing too much in create compatible parts for Tata.
Very often we also build our own things! So I'll be pleased if anyone can show pictures and advices of what they have done on their 4x4, no matters the brand.
Looking forward for your views!!!

cheers:

Ignazio
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Old 10th February 2008, 20:04   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignazio View Post
Nonetheless Tata is using axle, gear boxes and transfer cases that are originally designed in USA.
Axles are Dana Spicers, hence a relative good availability of aftermarket accessories (diff lock, etc.).
I guess this news. Never saw this mentioned here. How do you identify?

Quote:
We also have a lack of aftermarket for the rest of the Tata parts, it seem that in Europe, Tata are used in Italy, UK and Spain only, then nobody is investing too much in create compatible parts for Tata.
Very often we also build our own things! So I'll be pleased if anyone can show pictures and advices of what they have done on their 4x4, no matters the brand.

Since Tatas are based in India, AFAICT, there is no shortage for spare parts if what you mean by "aftermarket" is replacement for stock parts.

OTOH, building "own parts" is a practise you (used to) find in users of imported commercial vehicles. About 15 years back, Ford had sold quite a few bus chassis in Kerala. 5 years later, the hapless owners were either building their own spares, or replacing components with parts from other veheciles. For example, when the engine became due for overhaul (replacement of pistons, etc), since the parts were not available, the easy way out was to replace the Ford engine with a Leyland OR Tata (depending on the owner's taste) Engine and appropriate gearbox. When components in the differential housing (eg. rack and pinion) required replacement, they would rather be welded and remachined!!!

That said, are you aware that vehicles Tatas sell outisde India are usually higher spec?? (More engine power, different and better transmission, extra safety features, etc?) For a start, have you noticed that your vehicle has more GC (you know what means by now, don't you?) than same vehicle sold in India?

Unless a particular vehicle achieves a "critical mass" component makers may not bother to build parts for that vehicle. Till then, you will be at the "mercy" of the manufacturer. (Ford car owners in India are facing this problem right now).
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Old 10th February 2008, 20:13   #6
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Few weeks ago called a tata dealer for trucks to enquire about the TL series instead i got information about 207!! I was really surprised that they dont have any information about TL series.
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Old 10th February 2008, 21:22   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignazio View Post
hence a relative good availability of aftermarket accessories (diff lock, etc.).
Have you put a diff lock on your truck? And have people done the same on the Elefant?

Yeah I guess you can open up a new thread in Mods and Accessories about parts available in Italy.
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Old 10th February 2008, 22:24   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
I guess this news. Never saw this mentioned here. How do you identify?




Since Tatas are based in India, AFAICT, there is no shortage for spare parts if what you mean by "aftermarket" is replacement for stock parts.

OTOH, building "own parts" is a practise you (used to) find in users of imported commercial vehicles. About 15 years back, Ford had sold quite a few bus chassis in Kerala. 5 years later, the hapless owners were either building their own spares, or replacing components with parts from other veheciles. For example, when the engine became due for overhaul (replacement of pistons, etc), since the parts were not available, the easy way out was to replace the Ford engine with a Leyland OR Tata (depending on the owner's taste) Engine and appropriate gearbox. When components in the differential housing (eg. rack and pinion) required replacement, they would rather be welded and remachined!!!

That said, are you aware that vehicles Tatas sell outisde India are usually higher spec?? (More engine power, different and better transmission, extra safety features, etc?) For a start, have you noticed that your vehicle has more GC (you know what means by now, don't you?) than same vehicle sold in India?

Unless a particular vehicle achieves a "critical mass" component makers may not bother to build parts for that vehicle. Till then, you will be at the "mercy" of the manufacturer. (Ford car owners in India are facing this problem right now).
Hi,
well, components have labels to be identified on it, also optically they are identical. Have a look to my rear axle Dana 44 on TL and a Jeep one:
photo is mine, link is the jeep.


Used Jeep Dana 44 Axles Dana 44 Axles Photo

Front diff. is Dana 30 and transfer case is Borg & Worner.

By aftermarket I mean either replacement than improved parts.
For us, Tata it is imported, stock original parts are not too much difficult to find to the dealers, but some are very expensive!!!

I thought that maybe Tata sells different abroad, but bear in mind that the 4x4 TL has same mechanic than Safari, I haven't seen any Indian 4x4 TL yet, will be nice if someone post some photo! I'd like to compare my GC (I know what it is now hihihihihhi)

Guys, so good to have this chat! Love BHP now!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkr2k2 View Post
Few weeks ago called a tata dealer for trucks to enquire about the TL series instead i got information about 207!! I was really surprised that they dont have any information about TL series.
Very strange! Insist and persist, they must know something!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Have you put a diff lock on your truck? And have people done the same on the Elefant?

Yeah I guess you can open up a new thread in Mods and Accessories about parts available in Italy.
It is on the to-do list, ECTED will be the model, google it for info..! Max is doing it also. Someone else attempting...

Will open new trhead soon!

Ciao ciao

Ignazio
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Old 11th February 2008, 00:04   #9
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Jeep [mahindras] have Dana axles as well, the and they are dana 44 as well at the rear, front is usually a solid axle as well, not the independent set as on TATAs, but the new scorpio know as GOA in European markets is the first vehicle from mahnidra to have independent suspension 4x4, all other models are solid axles for 4x4 setups.
What exactly are you looking out for [after market parts].... cause if you are looking out for engine power increase , you'll get bigger turbos at your place itself [we have to import these], as for diff lockes you may find something for dana itself .
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Old 12th February 2008, 01:47   #10
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Originally Posted by dinar View Post
Jeep [mahindras] have Dana axles as well, the and they are dana 44 as well at the rear, front is usually a solid axle as well, not the independent set as on TATAs, but the new scorpio know as GOA in European markets is the first vehicle from mahnidra to have independent suspension 4x4, all other models are solid axles for 4x4 setups.
What exactly are you looking out for [after market parts].... cause if you are looking out for engine power increase , you'll get bigger turbos at your place itself [we have to import these], as for diff lockes you may find something for dana itself .
Hi!
good to know that Mahindra have Dana44, we can share experience!
I'm looking to a snorkel, for my Tata, I know it can be build easily, but will be nice to see if there is something prebuild.
Engine is not a problem, the original turbo, been a KKK04 it is easy to be tuned. Fuel pump is made in India but under Bosch license, then easy.
Diff. lock is to be installed, ECTED will be the model.
Looking forward your vision on mods you have done!!!
Ciao

Ignazio
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Old 12th February 2008, 10:44   #11
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I had a Mahindra long time ago, [sold it couple of years ago] it was my fathers car and he had new car for himself so I had had the old Jeep, with me in my collage days, now am waiting for the Xenon to be launched here....was going in for the TL but than the new came of xenon and am waiting for it for over a year now.
My jeep did not have much of mods, as funds was a problem and also getting parts was difficult than, now the situation is changed a lot in my country and we can get parts here, from any place...
My jeep had a nice suspension mod on the rear axle , I had spring out of the sierra [safari], had to do a lot off welding to the chassis for mounting of the control arm and the accommodated the spring mounts on the upper side.I had propane injection system made at home fitted for extra boost when needed, but the mahindra engine is quit torquey, so it was used only when overtaking on the highways, cause thats where the engine lost [no topend and only four gears].
As for the snorkel I think something for the toyota Hilux [the old version] should fit your truck, only the outer part, you may to to fabricate the under bonnet plumbing.
Only few people in the country are real off road enthusiast and so there is no after market modification parts off the selves for these vehicle available in India, most of the mods are designed and built in by the owner themselves [ with help from local garages for fabrication].
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Old 12th February 2008, 16:13   #12
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Ignazio, could you please post pics of your Tata Vehicle.
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Old 13th February 2008, 09:12   #13
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Quote:
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I had propane injection system made at home fitted for extra boost when needed, but the mahindra engine is quit torquey, so it was used only when overtaking on the highways, cause thats where the engine lost [no topend and only four gears].
dinar, will you please put up a thread on how you went about the propane injection?will it work with CRDI engines? and why not alter the final ratio to a higher gearing? would'nt that help on the highways?
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Old 13th February 2008, 11:14   #14
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Well as far as the Axle and Differentials are concerned they are from Dana Spicer made here in Pune (10kms from the mercedes plant).

Dana Spicer in India is a collaboration between Anand Group and Dana(USA). These guys do it very well. I have see their plant and they do it quite seriously. In fact the Axles of Mercedes Benz as well are assembled in the same plant in a different section. They do make axles for Tractors as well in the same plant.
BTW, My Uncle was the COO (Chief Operating Officer ) of Dana Spicer India for many years....
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Old 13th February 2008, 14:22   #15
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Hi all,


Quote:
Originally Posted by dinar View Post
My jeep had a nice suspension mod on the rear axle , I had spring out of the sierra [safari], had to do a lot off welding to the chassis for mounting of the control arm and the accommodated the spring mounts on the upper side.I had propane injection system made at home fitted for extra boost when needed, but the mahindra engine is quit torquey, so it was used only when overtaking on the highways, cause thats where the engine lost [no topend and only four gears].
Wow! great stuff doing that mod, lot of work! I was thinking something similar for my TL, but for now I stick with leaf springs
Propane stuff, interesting mod. Like to know something more about...

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Originally Posted by amtak View Post
Ignazio, could you please post pics of your Tata Vehicle.
Will do my friend, but for now, click on my profile, it is a bigger photo in and have a look to my presentation thread. I don't think there are other 100% Italians on BHP

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajismine View Post
Well as far as the Axle and Differentials are concerned they are from Dana Spicer made here in Pune (10kms from the mercedes plant).

Dana Spicer in India is a collaboration between Anand Group and Dana(USA). These guys do it very well. I have see their plant and they do it quite seriously. In fact the Axles of Mercedes Benz as well are assembled in the same plant in a different section. They do make axles for Tractors as well in the same plant.
BTW, My Uncle was the COO (Chief Operating Officer ) of Dana Spicer India for many years....
Bingo! Happy you share this info! I'm 100% shure they are well made, none of my "Tata club Italia" mates had a diff. issue yet...
Any chance to get some docs or other better info from your Uncle?
Maybe he has also good channel to get spares a bit cheaper than the official market...


Looking forward your thoughts guys!

Ciao

Ignazio
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