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Old 5th April 2008, 08:04   #61
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Exactly, apart from Arka's Jeep, looking at Aravind's sleeper Jeep in Chikmagalur, I fully believe it. Not everybody can do this. One needs a support system of willing and like minded mechanics too. I too had started with the idea of buying a base Gama and modifying it. Then I realised I don't have the luxury of time or the local support system for such venture. Besides, one needs to get very technical, have to know the vehicle inside out.

Well, you have the support system around you. Congrats!


Sharat, I too dont have the luxury of time..but the bug..well you know!

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Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
But 4x4 in mahindras and gypsy are just there for the name sake. Engine powering all the four wheels, thats all. If you are in a situation, rainy day, no roads, muddy paths...u will know wat a 4x4 really is. why?? they simply doesn't have Diff.lock. So wheels loosing traction will create a big pond of its own. creating more difficulties.


Sir, a diff lock is NOT needed in most situations..if one knows how to drive around it. And with DIFF LOCKS too, one should know WHEN to use it..

You could get into a tricky situation with either options..
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Old 5th April 2008, 10:31   #62
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Happy to see so many Mahindra fans. Personally i hate this brand, no offense.

But 4x4 in mahindras and gypsy are just there for the name sake. Engine powering all the four wheels, thats all. If you are in a situation, rainy day, no roads, muddy paths...u will know wat a 4x4 really is. why?? they simply doesn't have Diff.lock. So wheels loosing traction will create a big pond of its own. creating more difficulties.
SirAlec:

You are mixing up the company with the product. I hate Mahindra myself, but I still like some of their products. From your comments you don't seem to be an off-road enthusiast. But for off-roads enthusiasts in india we have an extremely limited choice.It's down to Mahindra Jeeps and Gypsy and more recently the Gurkha (if you can get one ).

So enjoy your Ikon flair and Swift or whatever and let us folks deal with the jeeps.
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Old 5th April 2008, 10:33   #63
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You could get into a tricky situation with either options..

You should travel in a convoy , when off roading...
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Old 5th April 2008, 10:33   #64
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
So enjoy your Ikon flair and Swift or whatever and let us folks deal with the jeeps.
Looks like he has a Land Rover apart from the usual Swift.
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Old 5th April 2008, 11:15   #65
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If 5 Lakhs is your budget..I'd suggest a Gypsy King MPFi..It is RELIABLE unlike any mahindra jeep..

Basically the Mahindra MM540, Cj series are all atleast 30 yrs back in design..which means..no pressurised cooling system,etc..One needs to check the water and oil in the engine every morning. I love to do this personally, but lack of time, and the need for reliability made me look up the gypsy way.

Also, jeeps take a lot of one's time. FYI, Arka has spent half his life building his MM540. It is Amazing and drives like a car, off road too. Has LSD etc etc including GPS.

Whereas, do you have that time to spend on your major..then go for it else i'd suggest a GYPSY anyday..for reliability

BTW, I too have recently acquired a MM540 and am workin on it..the jeep bug bites you eh?


Headers,

I beg to differ from you on new Mahindra Majors reliability issues. Agreed the quality levels are no close to japanese vehicles. But the following are the facts -

1. New maruti gypsy comes with 1 year warranty but a mahindra comes with 3 yrs driveline warranty or 1.5 lakh kilometers which ever is earlier

2. The engine what Major has, does lakhs of kilometers on taxi duty in rural and urban india. I have seen this vehicle doing amazing performace on mining areas in high altitiude and slushy conditions with next to negligible maintenance

3. You dont have to check brake oil, water, engine oil etc, etc everyday, gone are those days. New majors engine comes with Zero oil top up feature. You dont find oil leaks & rattles like before.

4. Coming to Arka's jeep, it was driven to last bolt before it came to him. New ones are much better. He is an enthusiast and he chooses to spend time. Iam not at his level and my 1989 MM540 also doesnt require checking fluid levels everyday. Hence still managing with it:-)

5. Saying Major is 30 year old design is not correct to some extent. Ofcourse DNA is the same but Major has received more modifications and updates than Gypsy got it when i was introduced about 23 years back. Lot of changes done on chassis, infact a complete make over done on it, steering, Booster brakes, Turbo engine, NGCs suspension , new gearbox and shift on fly 4wd and all in all you get more metal for less money with a Diesel engine. Gypsy is still over priced for what you get.

As i said elsewhere in my tread, Gypsy is fun, Mahindra is practical!!!
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Old 5th April 2008, 12:20   #66
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You should travel in a convoy , when off roading...
Then there is no fun..the fun is to explore the wild..in a convoy the simplest thing to do would be follow the tracks of the guy in front..99.999% you would not get caught!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Headers,

I beg to differ from you on new Mahindra Majors reliability issues. Agreed the quality levels are no close to japanese vehicles. But the following are the facts -

1. New maruti gypsy comes with 1 year warranty but a mahindra comes with 3 yrs driveline warranty or 1.5 lakh kilometers which ever is earlier

2. The engine what Major has, does lakhs of kilometers on taxi duty in rural and urban india. I have seen this vehicle doing amazing performace on mining areas in high altitiude and slushy conditions with next to negligible maintenance

3. You dont have to check brake oil, water, engine oil etc, etc everyday, gone are those days. New majors engine comes with Zero oil top up feature. You dont find oil leaks & rattles like before.

4. Coming to Arka's jeep, it was driven to last bolt before it came to him. New ones are much better. He is an enthusiast and he chooses to spend time. Iam not at his level and my 1989 MM540 also doesnt require checking fluid levels everyday. Hence still managing with it:-)

5. Saying Major is 30 year old design is not correct to some extent. Ofcourse DNA is the same but Major has received more modifications and updates than Gypsy got it when i was introduced about 23 years back. Lot of changes done on chassis, infact a complete make over done on it, steering, Booster brakes, Turbo engine, NGCs suspension , new gearbox and shift on fly 4wd and all in all you get more metal for less money with a Diesel engine. Gypsy is still over priced for what you get.

As i said elsewhere in my tread, Gypsy is fun, Mahindra is practical!!!
Hey Vinod, thanks for your views

Point #1 & #2 is taken, #3 debatable, #4, yes we are NOT arka, #5 taken

I do agree Gypsy is highly overpriced..

coming to #3, I will be glad if you could tell me whether the new majors have pressurised cooling system, a thermostatic electric fan, instead of the fan belt systm. Also, whether they have booster brakes with a tandem master cylinder or just booster brakes etc.

Any jeep can be suppressed in the rattling dept, but one needs to re-do the tightening stuff more often than in a gypsy or a better designed vehicle.

I do agree the jeeps have a charm of their own, but the design is definitely outdated..doing a minor facelift is not a design change!

Would be glad to know your views.
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Old 5th April 2008, 12:37   #67
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I guess the only way to kill the Gypsy Vs MM540 Debate is for Maruthi to put the 1.9 Litre MultiJet Turbo Deisel Engine in the Gypsy... or For Mahindra to relauch the MM540 with latest engines/transmissions/features.
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Old 5th April 2008, 13:08   #68
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Sharat, I too dont have the luxury of time..but the bug..well you know!





Sir, a diff lock is NOT needed in most situations..if one knows how to drive around it. And with DIFF LOCKS too, one should know WHEN to use it..

You could get into a tricky situation with either options..

I happen to own a 1972 SIII LW. i guess its the only one in India. so driving it since when i was 14. so i am well aware of the 4x4 scene.

and yeah u need difflock in many situations. hence VFJ made it mandatory and asked TATA to add one in 713 much later than the original release. Especially when u live in Darjeeling u need difflock.
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Old 5th April 2008, 13:18   #69
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
SirAlec:

You are mixing up the company with the product. I hate Mahindra myself, but I still like some of their products. From your comments you don't seem to be an off-road enthusiast. But for off-roads enthusiasts in india we have an extremely limited choice.It's down to Mahindra Jeeps and Gypsy and more recently the Gurkha (if you can get one ).

So enjoy your Ikon flair and Swift or whatever and let us folks deal with the jeeps.
lolz...again u wannabe 4x4 enthusiasts from plains sud stick to sedan and things...from the place where i hail and kinda work I do, its mandatory for people to know about 4x4, difflock not only to use it but to repair it too.

No offence dude! FIY I happen to own an only 1972 Land rover SIII LW in India.

Will post it in the garage section when my membership converts to bhpian.

Thanks
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Old 5th April 2008, 14:10   #70
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No offence dude! FIY I happen to own an only 1972 Land rover SIII LW in India.
No offence dude, but a Major with good tires will go everywhere you 1972 Land rover will go.

I love land rovers for their heritage and being pioneers in 4x4, but they have their share of reliability issues.

Again my point is that majority of 4x4 ethusiasts in india don't have access to Landrovers and Jeep wranger rubicon's etc. so you dissing mahindra's and gypsies doesn't make a difference to the indian consumer.

I lived in the west for 10 years and owned a Toyota Landcruiser 100 series until last year. On offroading trips, it kept up with modded rangies and wranglers. the only mod, I had was an extra set of mudd terrain tires. Unfortunately, in India you have to live with the options we have.

Last edited by 4x4addict : 5th April 2008 at 14:13.
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Old 5th April 2008, 14:30   #71
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[quote=4x4addict;784751]No offence dude, but a Major with good tires will go everywhere you 1972 Land rover will go.

quote]

reliability was not an issue. i cannot agree on that, as they say 75% of LR is still alive and doing their rounds.

Yeah its true, we have limited choices hence the standard issue of them to armed forces, but u cannot compare DI major with LR. Its Injustice. i have seen its leaf break like biscuits in Darjeeling.

We tried many vehicle u name it, scorpio, safari,

only our Toyota FJ (we sold) and LR stood the test of time.
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Old 5th April 2008, 15:02   #72
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Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
lolz...again u wannabe 4x4 enthusiasts from plains sud stick to sedan and things...from the place where i hail and kinda work I do, its mandatory for people to know about 4x4, difflock not only to use it but to repair it too.

No offence dude! FIY I happen to own an only 1972 Land rover SIII LW in India.

Will post it in the garage section when my membership converts to bhpian.

Thanks
Eagerly waiting for you to post your garage!

I agree that a person should be aware of the usage of 4x4, but then the person who is well versed with the usage can make good use of 4x4 without the diff locks. Atleast, light vehicles(jeeps) can manage through.

Army had ordered diff locks on 713 because it is a bigger vehicle with low RPM and high torque which at times may require the services of diff lock. I am sanguine that on the next opportunity, when you see a 2.5 ton(TATA 713) you will make a point to ask the driver as to how many times has he used the diff lock?

With powerfull engines one hardly gets stuck. I have been driving 2.5 ton and ALS in high altitude areas over snow and slush in J&K which would be equal to Darjeeling if not more!
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Old 5th April 2008, 15:03   #73
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
If 5 Lakhs is your budget..I'd suggest a Gypsy King MPFi..It is RELIABLE unlike any mahindra jeep..
Totally agreed. If thats your budget, get a brand new Gypsy. Awesome machine. I see people talking about the capability of one 4x4 versus the other; let me tell you that the off-roading skill of a 4x4 depends most on the driver, and less on the vehicle. Mahindras and Gypsies are both competent off the road....its all on your own individual skill level when tacking tough terrain. I have seen plenty of distinguished off-roaders stuck where they should'nt have, and lesser off-roaders passing through the same patch easily. Train yourself, read on tactics and practice.

@ Vinod : As a Jeep owner, let me confirm headers argument that the Major will never be as trouble-free as a Gypsy. Niggling issues are a part of daily life for any Mahindra owner. You better have a lot of time on your hands once your Jeep is over 2 -3 years old. These babies age at a significantly faster rate than other modern cars.

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Originally Posted by IronWolf View Post
Somehow to many a Petrol Jeep does not really click.
Thats only an Indian mentality. The best Jeeps from the world over are petrol. Mahindra has ingrained the "diesel Jeep" syndrome within us. Globally, a good Jeep should have atleast 6 cylinder petrol power.
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Old 5th April 2008, 15:04   #74
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Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
lolz...again u wannabe 4x4 enthusiasts from plains sud stick to sedan and things...from the place where i hail and kinda work I do, its mandatory for people to know about 4x4, difflock not only to use it but to repair it too.Thanks
I pray thee good sir,

Please tell me more about the nature of your work, the place you hail and about your experience with Differential Locks.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 5th April 2008, 15:08   #75
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
No offence dude, but a Major with good tires will go everywhere you 1972 Land rover will go.

I love land rovers for their heritage and being pioneers in 4x4, but they have their share of reliability issues.

JEEPs PIONEERED the Car 250Kg 4x4 .....not LaRo or TLC.....they are all copies or inspired.

Regards,

Arka
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