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Old 5th April 2008, 20:41   #76
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
JEEPs PIONEERED the Car 250Kg 4x4 .....not LaRo or TLC.....they are all copies or inspired.

Regards,

Arka
GTO is saying exactly what I am. There is a huge difference between JEEP and Mahindra. Crysler did refrain Mahindra from using the Jeep, hence they started naming them commander, marshal, major etc. They used to marked Jeep on side fender if you remember.

As far as mahindra is concerned, you should have remembered an old episode of Top gear, and tests by Jeremy clarkson. not that i am a fan of him.

Mahindra to choro...Jeep is considered a legend due to its lineage with WWII. Agar jeep itna sucessful hota to MUTT ya later Hummer release karne ki jarurat nai tha.

LR is not inspired by Jeep but came out of necessaty when a bloke named Wilkis (Rover engineer) was unable to repair his Jeep in his farm.

BTW, family business was logging. I am in IT field. but practically grew up with 4x4s.

Last edited by Rehaan : 5th April 2008 at 22:52. Reason: wat = what. Also please try to keep discussions in english for the benefit of members from all parts of india / the world.
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Old 5th April 2008, 20:48   #77
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I pray thee good sir,

Please tell me more about the nature of your work, the place you hail and about your experience with Differential Locks.

Regards,

Arka
Arka, i thought he said he works in the hills in Darjeeling..Maybe we should invite him as our cheap guest for the next OTR??

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The best Jeeps from the world over are petrol. Mahindra has ingrained the "diesel Jeep" syndrome within us. Globally, a good Jeep should have atleast 6 cylinder petrol power.
Yup..need a SIX cylinder petrol..with the works!

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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
JEEPs PIONEERED the Car 250Kg 4x4 .....not LaRo or TLC.....
Arka
Arka..i didnt get you here? what do you mean?
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Old 5th April 2008, 21:01   #78
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Eagerly waiting for you to post your garage!

I agree that a person should be aware of the usage of 4x4, but then the person who is well versed with the usage can make good use of 4x4 without the diff locks. Atleast, light vehicles(jeeps) can manage through.

Army had ordered diff locks on 713 because it is a bigger vehicle with low RPM and high torque which at times may require the services of diff lock. I am sanguine that on the next opportunity, when you see a 2.5 ton(TATA 713) you will make a point to ask the driver as to how many times has he used the diff lock?

With powerfull engines one hardly gets stuck. I have been driving 2.5 ton and ALS in high altitude areas over snow and slush in J&K which would be equal to Darjeeling if not more!

If a person is an expert, 2wd is also sufficient. Its proven in history, best example will be Kubelwagen,

but thats not the point, point is I do not consider Mahindra as a 4x4 maker, and its been cheating the indians for decades (consider the price/package factor) chk the COO of XDP that army is bearing. I waiting for the day when our well deserved dude at border gets pink panther. Sooner or later its going to happen.

diff lock in 713, very few people use and occasionally, Bhai kaha se on karte hai woh to dekho.!! Its very cumbersome.

and yeah!!
Did i mention somewhere, the so called ingenous mahindra designers, copied inch to inch the Mahindra Axe. its already being used by isreali IDF. i posted the links somewhere. and only great product of theirs scorpio is heavily inspired by terracan. and we call chinese the copy cat.

No offence Mahindra lovers, hope i will not be kicked out.

Last edited by Rehaan : 5th April 2008 at 22:51. Reason: posts merged.
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Old 5th April 2008, 23:36   #79
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I love land rovers for their heritage and being pioneers in 4x4, but they have their share of reliability issues.
Quite right. One of the reasons Ford sold off LR was continuous nagging reliability issues over a long period of time. This garnered them a really bad word of mouth reputation in North America and greatly curtailed their sales. This, plus the fact that they were grossly over priced and had stiff competition. If it was successful Ford would not have sold it off.
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Old 6th April 2008, 01:47   #80
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
JEEPs PIONEERED the Car 250Kg 4x4 .....not LaRo or TLC.....they are all copies or inspired.

Regards,

Arka
exactly Arka,
Willys MB/ Ford GPW or rather the MA's/GP's were the real pioneers
in the quarter ton 4X4 catagory. Land Rover followed in the late forties
and the Land Cruiser even later..
but that still doesnt make the mahindra's the best, does it??
cheers
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Old 7th April 2008, 11:03   #81
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Originally Posted by gotzuk View Post
exactly Arka,
Willys MB/ Ford GPW or rather the MA's/GP's were the real pioneers
in the quarter ton 4X4 catagory. Land Rover followed in the late forties
and the Land Cruiser even later..
but that still doesnt make the mahindra's the best, does it??
cheers
Hi Vaibhav,

Partly by your admission earlier, M&M makes the best (HARDCORE) off-roaders in India.

Cheers,

Arka
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Old 7th April 2008, 11:21   #82
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Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
lolz...again u wannabe 4x4 enthusiasts from plains sud stick to sedan and things...from the place where i hail and kinda work I do, its mandatory for people to know about 4x4, difflock not only to use it but to repair it too.
I dont understand why there is this notion among common people that the drivers of the hills are some kind of super-human beings and people from the plains will fail miserably on the hills. But I am yet to be convinced about this. And I have seen how the drivers from Darjeeling and Gangtok start sweating when they reach the plains.. so please stop comparing. a good driver is good anywhere, no matter what he drives or where he drives...

Last edited by BlackPearl : 7th April 2008 at 11:22.
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Old 7th April 2008, 11:43   #83
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
Then there is no fun..the fun is to explore the wild..in a convoy the simplest thing to do would be follow the tracks of the guy in front..99.999% you would not get caught!!



Hey Vinod, thanks for your views

Point #1 & #2 is taken, #3 debatable, #4, yes we are NOT arka, #5 taken

I do agree Gypsy is highly overpriced..

coming to #3, I will be glad if you could tell me whether the new majors have pressurised cooling system, a thermostatic electric fan, instead of the fan belt systm. Also, whether they have booster brakes with a tandem master cylinder or just booster brakes etc.

Any jeep can be suppressed in the rattling dept, but one needs to re-do the tightening stuff more often than in a gypsy or a better designed vehicle.

I do agree the jeeps have a charm of their own, but the design is definitely outdated..doing a minor facelift is not a design change!

Would be glad to know your views.

Hey headers,
Glad to speak on this:-) On pt. No.3 yes, Majors come with pressurized cooling system. No, they dont come with thermostat electric fan in the interests of simplicity. Infact even Bolero SLX also donot have this. The reason for the omission of thermostat electrical fan is for simplicity. Majors operate in severe dust condition and in extreme temperatures. The people who take it use it for commercial purposes and lower maintenance costs to them is very important. Viscious coupling fans like the one in scorpio is very expensive to replace if any thing goes wrong. The cooling system present now is rugged and efficient and theres a proof of it with vehicles being used in Rajasthan, munnar, ladhak and other north eastern states. Jeep is used for lugging and cooling system present now does a good job at that. In fact for your information theres another DI turbo engine which has Viscious coupling cooling fan and used is used in lower version scorpio called M2DI. The cost goes up and so does the horse power to 70bhp instead of 63BHP now. It makes no sence for Mahindra to introduce this in Major as simplicity is the Mantra here.

Yes, new mahindra Majors come with Booster brakes with disc in front. Jeep is legendary & design is never outdated, probabaly u are talking about styling. Major didnt get a face lift only. Updates have been given on Engine, gearbox,Chassis, suspension, interiors, seats, Hydraulic clutch, roll cage, shift on fly 4wd, Radial 16 inch tyres (optional), new axles, axle ratio of 3.73 instead of 4.27 earlier, now all these changes you cannot call it a mere facelift!

No doubt Major wouldnt come near Gyspy on Ergonomics but still it isnt ages behind Gypsy either in terms of quality & reliability. On Durability definately Major has an edge.

What says sir?
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Old 7th April 2008, 12:52   #84
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Hey Guys sorry for hijacking this thread but i need advice and help.I need to purchase a rugged vehicle for an estate in coorg.any suggestions and help??I have no knowledge about jeeps, 4x4.any help in this matter would be highly appreciated.Sorry again.
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Old 7th April 2008, 12:57   #85
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Pricezahed,

The answer is simple go for Mahindra Major 4x4, the cheapest and the best you can get for the price of 5 lakhs. If the conditons are less demanding then go in for Bolero Camper 4x4 , here you will have the option of carrying both men and material along.
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Old 7th April 2008, 13:45   #86
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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Quite right. One of the reasons Ford sold off LR was continuous nagging reliability issues over a long period of time. This garnered them a really bad word of mouth reputation in North America and greatly curtailed their sales. This, plus the fact that they were grossly over priced and had stiff competition. If it was successful Ford would not have sold it off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I love land rovers for their heritage and being pioneers in 4x4, but they have their share of reliability issues.
@dirtydan

You are wrong. What you have written is pure imagination/fabrication and if i may say so..Junk!.

FOrd sold Land Rover because of a million other Bigger reasons THAN 'quality issues on LR and its subsequent impact in North America!!'

Infact last three years have seen record sales of LR!

Elito

Last edited by Elito11 : 7th April 2008 at 13:58.
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Old 7th April 2008, 13:52   #87
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Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Pricezahed,

The answer is simple go for Mahindra Major 4x4, the cheapest and the best you can get for the price of 5 lakhs. If the conditons are less demanding then go in for Bolero Camper 4x4 , here you will have the option of carrying both men and material along.
thanks for the reply vinod but i dont want to buy a new vehicle.the terrain is not that rough.i need something which can also be used here in bangalore during the rains and in coorg too.some people suggested the old mahindra jeep,some said gypsy.I need a vehicle which i can drive to and from bangalore which is about 260kms in reasonable time.
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Old 7th April 2008, 13:59   #88
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@Prince
If you want a jeep for coorg then mahindra major is a good bet. If you want to reach coorg from bangalore then i would suggest gypsy just for speed but the number of people travelling should not be more than 2 as the guys in the rears will have major strains in this journey.
Best bet is the Major.
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Old 7th April 2008, 14:34   #89
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Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
If a person is an expert, 2wd is also sufficient. Its proven in history, best example will be Kubelwagen,

but thats not the point, point is I do not consider Mahindra as a 4x4 maker, and its been cheating the indians for decades (consider the price/package factor) chk the COO of XDP that army is bearing. I waiting for the day when our well deserved dude at border gets pink panther. Sooner or later its going to happen.

diff lock in 713, very few people use and occasionally, Bhai kaha se on karte hai woh to dekho.!! Its very cumbersome.

and yeah!!
Did i mention somewhere, the so called ingenous mahindra designers, copied inch to inch the Mahindra Axe. its already being used by isreali IDF. i posted the links somewhere. and only great product of theirs scorpio is heavily inspired by terracan. and we call chinese the copy cat.

No offence Mahindra lovers, hope i will not be kicked out.
1. You have answered the question yourself of having/using a diff lock or not by being an expert like Kubelwagen(who?)

2. By your kind consideration of Mahindra being a cheater and not a producer of (real)4x4, the scenario of Indian offroading doesnot change. Indians have bought Mahindras since so many decades and they are still buying them. Interestingly, Mahindra has started cheating people abroad also.

3. Request be more specific in regards to 'chk the COO in XDP that Army is bearing'. If you are refering to Mahindras in the Army; then is it the condition you are reffering? If yes, then the beaurocracy is to be blamed of inducting that particular model. If you have an acess, you must go through the trial reports of Mahindra conducted by Army.

4. I am sanguine(no offences meant) that, I am one of the deserving dudes at the border!

5. Please elaborate about the 'Pink Panther'. I sincerly feel that there other naive dudes on the border who are not aware of this deal which is going to take place. For their information you can post some technicalities of that vehicle.

6. Diff lock on 713 and ALS are brought into action by the respective drivers of each vehicle. In the 713, he(the driver) uses his left hand to operate the switch(left to right) on the dashboard and in the ALS the driver again uses his left hand to turn the knob(which is just like turning a fan regulator) to engage diff locks. Can't find a reason to operate it cumbersomely!

7. As far is copying is concerned, it actually is a bad thing to do!? But then, why shoudn't Indians copy? If it is something good, it should be copied! Chinese have prospered doing that.

8. If the copied Mahindra Axe maintains its quality as its Israeli counterpart, then rest is assured that we as Indians have nothing to loose from such a copy. It will be gain only.
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Old 7th April 2008, 18:18   #90
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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
I dont understand why there is this notion among common people that the drivers of the hills are some kind of super-human beings and people from the plains will fail miserably on the hills. But I am yet to be convinced about this. And I have seen how the drivers from Darjeeling and Gangtok start sweating when they reach the plains.. so please stop comparing. a good driver is good anywhere, no matter what he drives or where he drives...
I agree..The driver from the hills cant even look at a track or highway driving..ssh sorry for comparing but it just got me tickled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Hey headers,
Glad to speak on this:-) On pt. No.3 yes, Majors come with pressurized cooling system. No, they dont come with thermostat electric fan in the interests of simplicity. Infact even Bolero SLX also donot have this. The reason for the omission of thermostat electrical fan is for simplicity. Majors operate in severe dust condition and in extreme temperatures. The people who take it use it for commercial purposes and lower maintenance costs to them is very important. Viscious coupling fans like the one in scorpio is very expensive to replace if any thing goes wrong. The cooling system present now is rugged and efficient and theres a proof of it with vehicles being used in Rajasthan, munnar, ladhak and other north eastern states. Jeep is used for lugging and cooling system present now does a good job at that. In fact for your information theres another DI turbo engine which has Viscious coupling cooling fan and used is used in lower version scorpio called M2DI. The cost goes up and so does the horse power to 70bhp instead of 63BHP now. It makes no sence for Mahindra to introduce this in Major as simplicity is the Mantra here.

Yes, new mahindra Majors come with Booster brakes with disc in front. Jeep is legendary & design is never outdated, probabaly u are talking about styling. Major didnt get a face lift only. Updates have been given on Engine, gearbox,Chassis, suspension, interiors, seats, Hydraulic clutch, roll cage, shift on fly 4wd, Radial 16 inch tyres (optional), new axles, axle ratio of 3.73 instead of 4.27 earlier, now all these changes you cannot call it a mere facelift!

No doubt Major wouldnt come near Gyspy on Ergonomics but still it isnt ages behind Gypsy either in terms of quality & reliability. On Durability definately Major has an edge.

What says sir?
Thank you sir, for updating me on the major as also being a major marketing head for them..would love to check one out soon. That Was some useful information

Quote:
Originally Posted by susan3004 View Post
1. You have answered the question yourself of having/using a diff lock or not by being an expert like Kubelwagen(who?)

2. By your kind consideration of Mahindra being a cheater and not a producer of (real)4x4, the scenario of Indian offroading doesnot change. Indians have bought Mahindras since so many decades and they are still buying them. Interestingly, Mahindra has started cheating people abroad also.

3. Request be more specific in regards to 'chk the COO in XDP that Army is bearing'. If you are refering to Mahindras in the Army; then is it the condition you are reffering? If yes, then the beaurocracy is to be blamed of inducting that particular model. If you have an acess, you must go through the trial reports of Mahindra conducted by Army.

4. I am sanguine(no offences meant) that, I am one of the deserving dudes at the border!

5. Please elaborate about the 'Pink Panther'. I sincerly feel that there other naive dudes on the border who are not aware of this deal which is going to take place. For their information you can post some technicalities of that vehicle.

6. Diff lock on 713 and ALS are brought into action by the respective drivers of each vehicle. In the 713, he(the driver) uses his left hand to operate the switch(left to right) on the dashboard and in the ALS the driver again uses his left hand to turn the knob(which is just like turning a fan regulator) to engage diff locks. Can't find a reason to operate it cumbersomely!

7. As far is copying is concerned, it actually is a bad thing to do!? But then, why shoudn't Indians copy? If it is something good, it should be copied! Chinese have prospered doing that.

8. If the copied Mahindra Axe maintains its quality as its Israeli counterpart, then rest is assured that we as Indians have nothing to loose from such a copy. It will be gain only.

This post deserves a genuine
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