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Old 1st July 2008, 19:28   #241
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Originally Posted by Jeep View Post
I was told by my friend who owned and old MM540 that one could just push start the jeep even without the ignition(?) keys.
Just push? what about slipping into gear later?


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Try it out early in the morning, when the roads are empty.
Empty roads with an incline? I don't think I need to get up early, I can get it anytime of the day, any day of the year.
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Old 1st July 2008, 19:30   #242
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For without battery starts - Slot in second, ask someone to give a good push and let go the clutch once you have attained a fair momentum and then pump the accelerator. Once it starts depress clutch and let the engine idle for sometime.

Dont try it when alone - Safety first. Anyways in India anyone is ready to give a good push if required.

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Ok, is the CJ340 alternator good enough for extra lights, I hope so.
Electrical: 12 Volt, 22 Amps Generator/35 Amps/ Alternator

No not good enough. Get the 80 amp battery and connect in parallel with a relay.

Last edited by Rehaan : 2nd July 2008 at 00:54. Reason: Posts merged. Please use the EDIT or the MULTIQUOTE button.
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Old 1st July 2008, 19:40   #243
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Samurai: 80 amp is more than enough. The scorpio's run 75 and that too with A/C and ICE setup. The load is more than enough and I think compared to the cost, reliability, and service, Amaron Hi-Way is the best bet.

Did you find the cost or compared the cost with other brands?

Also, what SpitFire is saying is very true, though you have 80 Amp battery you need an alternator that can charge. I have replaced mine with a Bolero Alternator Unit. But parallel connection is cost effective option. My bullet has the setup where I have 14 Amps battery instead of the regular 5 Amps

Last edited by madbullram : 1st July 2008 at 19:42.
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Old 1st July 2008, 19:55   #244
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Samurai, you can just about buy any battery! Just ensure you have a 100A or 130A alternator properly mated to the engine to recharge the battery and electrical system. With 100 or 130A alternator, you could have all the lights you'd want.

BTW, just curious, why the hell do you want additional lights. OE aint good enough? Or is it for the looks?
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Old 1st July 2008, 20:50   #245
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Samarai-san,

Add up the total number of watts you you expect to need to power all of your electrical stuff as if you had it all turned on at once. Then take this number and divide it by 13. This will give you a rough idea of the amps you need. So, then, get an alternator that puts out more amps than this figure by about ten percent in case you want to add stuff.

The number 13 is your volts. You are going to be generating somewhere between 12.5 and 14 volts in a healthy system so watts divided by volts gives you amps. Dat's how she works. This is the rough, by the seat method. You can get real fine with it, account for amps generated by the alternator at idle versus amps when you are bouncing down the road but, my method will give you a starting point. Go to an I.C.E or good electrical shop to get the final word.

Now, for all your electrical wizzards who want to pick me apart, I am just trying to give him a rough idea, okay?
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Old 1st July 2008, 20:56   #246
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P = VI

Gottya. Damn, you are reminding me of college, and Ohm's law and Kirchoff's law and what not.
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Old 1st July 2008, 21:08   #247
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samu: 70-80 amp battery is good enough, though any battery would work, invest in a good brand with warranty if you want it for keeps. Double check all your electricals including alternator and regulator before you plonk in the new battery. Ammeter will let you know if its charging proper when you add the lights, if it shows - with lights on at lil over idle, your alternator needs an upgrade.

push start, well if its a case where you lost the juice in battery, switch on ignition>press heater if its manual>engage 2nd>depress clutch>push>gather momentum>release clutch and switch the starter through ignition and disengage clutch. Last part helps if your battery has lost a cell and would help the starter fire up the engine faster. This procedure irrespective its petrol or diesel.

ps: i knew you were an engineer and the post was for dummies like me
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Old 1st July 2008, 22:03   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Just ensure you have a 100A or 130A alternator properly mated to the engine to recharge the battery and electrical system. With 100 or 130A alternator, you could have all the lights you'd want.
Check this -> Lucas - TVS - Products - Alternator

Last edited by Spitfire : 1st July 2008 at 22:05.
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Old 1st July 2008, 22:31   #249
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Another good option is the german made bosch alternator
found in the opel astra. rock solid reliability and rated at
120 amperes (if im not wrong)

cheers
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Old 1st July 2008, 23:11   #250
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@samurai,for push starts Mr Jaggu has got the right method.Something you can add to that is to stop where you will get enough sunlight the next day so that the engine and the radiator is exposed to sun!!!.I'm not joking it works.We had a Cooper engine jeep which we used to start by keeping burning firewood in front of the air cleaner or by pouring hot water in the radiator.All are crude methods ,used especially in hilly areas,but it works!!!
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Old 1st July 2008, 23:16   #251
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@samurai,for push starts Mr Jaggu has got the right method.Something you can add to that is to stop where you will get enough sunlight the next day so that the engine and the radiator is exposed to sun!!!.I'm not joking it works.We had a Cooper engine jeep which we used to start by keeping burning firewood in front of the air cleaner or by pouring hot water in the radiator.All are crude methods ,used especially in hilly areas,but it works!!!
If the Cooper engine is an IDI diesel you could have replaced the glowplugs and the battery.

Saw a Diesel Bullet user burn firewood below the sump on a cold Belgaum morning.
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Old 1st July 2008, 23:53   #252
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
BTW, just curious, why the hell do you want additional lights. OE aint good enough? Or is it for the looks?
Not for looks, just as backup lights. Even the GV has fogs as backup.

So, can a 35A alternator charge an 80A battery? Probably not, so I'll need a bigger alternator if I switch to bigger battery. In that case I'll pass for now.
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Old 2nd July 2008, 01:37   #253
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Not for looks, just as backup lights. Even the GV has fogs as backup.

So, can a 35A alternator charge an 80A battery? Probably not, so I'll need a bigger alternator if I switch to bigger battery. In that case I'll pass for now.
You can also try doing parallel charge from the alternator...
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Old 2nd July 2008, 01:41   #254
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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
...
Add up the total number of watts you you expect to need to power all of your electrical stuff as if you had it all turned on at once. Then take this number and divide it by 13. This will give you a rough idea of the amps you need. So, then, get an alternator that puts out more amps than this figure by about ten percent in case you want to add stuff...
Well summarized DD.

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...So, can a 35A alternator charge an 80A battery? Probably not, so I'll need a bigger alternator if I switch to bigger battery. In that case I'll pass for now.
Samu, if by "an 80A battery" you mean 80A-h battery, that seems to be plenty! The choice really depends on how long you plan to be running your electrical devices for when the car is not running - and if your alternator has lesser capacity than the load drawn, how much the difference is and for how long your car will run like this.

You might know this but i will repeat it for the benefit of all :
80A-h (amp-hours) is the capacity of the battery. It means it can deliver 80amps for a period of 1hour before it is completely discharged. It could also provide 1amp for 80hrs or 40amps for 2hours, - any combination where Amps x hours is = 80 or less.

Lets do a rough add up for all the lighting in your car (See similar post here : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...tml#post330850 (Why relay for high watt lamps)) :

Headlights = 90watt x 2
Fog lights = 60watts x 2
Tail lights = 30watts x 2

Total = 360watts

P(watts) = V(volts) x I(amps)

360w = 11v x ???A (<< i have chosen 11volts for a worst case scenario)
360w / 11v = ???A

360w / 11v = 32.7A
360w / 12v = 30A
360w / 13v = 27.7A

So 32.7A is probably your worst case draw from the lighting with this setup.
Your alternator charges @ 35A, so it seems you are just in the clear.

For eg. if your draw was 5A more than the alternator provided, it would take you 80/5 = 16hrs (with an 80A-h batt) to run out of juice completely. (However, remember that you never want to kill it completely since you will need some charge to crank-start the engine - which is the time the most current is drawn from the battery. Very exhausting.)

I wouldn't reccomend cutting it fine (though you can re-do the math with the exact numbers) - but this is exactly where the ammeter will help tremendously! If your in the +ve youre fine. If youre in the negative, depending on how far in the -ve you can figure out how long you can safely continue!


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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
...push start, well if its a case where you lost the juice in battery, switch on ignition>press heater if its manual>engage 2nd>depress clutch>push>gather momentum>release clutch and switch the starter through ignition and disengage clutch. Last part helps if your battery has lost a cell and would help the starter fire up the engine faster....
Sounds really painful for the starter assembly!! Why would you want to do that at all? (even if the battery has lost a cell). The only time i can think of doing that is if you just cant push the car fast enough yourself...
EDIT: Or by "ignition" do you mean "on" and not "crank". -- maybe i have misunderstood since i would usually turn the car to "on" before push starting.

cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 2nd July 2008 at 01:46.
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Old 2nd July 2008, 07:09   #255
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Thanks Rehaan, your calculations were very helpful. I understand all the stuff, it is just that I haven't used say P=VI since I left college. Now I'll start applying that.
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