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Old 25th August 2010, 14:45   #1066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
There is no scientific proof for that. Try finding one on the web.

I realise that there's no proof, the article you linked was very specific about that.

Question is 'why' do companies like WARN, Roo, Light Force etc. offer filters and what are the uses for the different colours?

Red for preserving night-vision makes sense to me, what about yellow and blue?


Regarding your questions:

1) Why the heck do I have a electronic fuel pump?
2) Can't the Bosch FIP do the whole job?
3) What should I do to throw away the electronic fuel pump?

I have been told that the FIP needs to be recalibrated, etc. But I want to understand the full function of the diesel Jeep FIP, and how it works, and why it needs the crutch of EFP sometimes.


1) I don't know about your jeep, but in all probability, I don't think you have an 'electronic' fuel pump. It is an 'electric' fuel pump.

2) The Bosch FIP is a Fuel Injection Pump and it is responsible for injecting diesel at the correct pressure into your engine. Now you have another pump (considerably smaller, cheaper and simpler than your FIP) which is responsible for supplying diesel to the FIP, from the diesel tank. This is called a diesel/fuel pump and can be mechanical (older systems) or electrical.
I guess Bosch could design the complete fuel system, but it just makes better sense to specialise in making a specific component with a specific job while the rest is left up to the vehicle manufacturer.

3) You can throw away the electrical fuel pump if you want to, but you would have to replace it with a mechanical system (not sure if it's easily available) also you have to remember that they're obsolete for a reason. Guess what you need to do is get a good quality fuel pump and get a competent mechanic to make sure it is in tune with the rest of the system. Cleaning out your tank(during monsoon, water and dirt can get into your tank), and replacing fuel lines would be advisable as well.

Hope all your problems get solved soon.
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Old 25th August 2010, 14:51   #1067
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Sharat - Post 1058 onwards should get back to the 'lost' bible of Jeeps
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Old 25th August 2010, 16:19   #1068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '72 Bullet View Post
1) Why the heck do I have a electronic fuel pump?
2) Can't the Bosch FIP do the whole job?
3) What should I do to throw away the electronic fuel pump?


1) I don't know about your jeep, but in all probability, I don't think you have an 'electronic' fuel pump. It is an 'electric' fuel pump.

2) Now you have another pump (considerably smaller, cheaper and simpler than your FIP) which is responsible for supplying diesel to the FIP, from the diesel tank. This is called a diesel/fuel pump and can be mechanical (older systems) or electrical.
I never knew that this Electrical/Electronic fuel pump existed in Diesel Vehicles. I thought the entire Job is done by FIP. I have seen this Electronic/Mechanical pump only on Hurricanes. It supplies the fuel to Carb. Are you sure such a thing exists in Diesel engine also?

Thanks
--Sree--
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Old 25th August 2010, 17:02   #1069
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Dear all - in all vehicles having XDP4.90 / XD3 / MDI engines, there is no need for a separate pump, mechanical or electronic. The FIP is sufficient to bring fuel from the tank upto itself.

Dear Sharath - I presume you have a so-called "electronic fuel pump" in your fuel system. If so, you may remove it and throw it out. Maybe it is the root cause of all your troubles. I have never used it so I cannot comment on its characteristics. Maybe before you bought the vehicle, its FIP was not working properly and somebody introduced this electronic fuel pump to tide over the situation. Please ensure that the FIP is correct for your CJ340 and it is fitted and timed properly by a person who knows what he is doing. If the electronic fuel pump leaves the system, the fuel line orientation will change. Please use new fuel lines and route / clip them properly. We have provided clips on the LH fender for fuel line clips in CJ340. You should only use MICO dual fuel filter unit with a pressure regulating valve in it. This valve is located inside one of the connections (I think it is inlet but I am not too sure). Most mechanics tend to throw away this valve, causing all sorts of problems. The complete filter unit should cost you somewhere around 3000 rupees. You may buy a new valve separately and use it. It should be available at genuine MICO outlets.

It seems that by the time you supposedly finish everything, except the chassis frame, nothing will remain of the original vehicle that you bought. This once again amply demonstrates the vulnerability of "normal" customers to the vagaries of the "local" system.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 25th August 2010, 17:09   #1070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear all - in all vehicles having XDP4.90 / XD3 / MDI engines, there is no need for a separate pump, mechanical or electronic. The FIP is sufficient to bring fuel from the tank upto itself.
Thanks for clarifying D_B sir.

--Sree--
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Old 25th August 2010, 17:54   #1071
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And i think Sharath is referring to solenoid switch pump system (whatever model it is) to the electric pump?? And he wants to know if moving back to the older pump system which has cable shut down thingie which doesnt require power.

Sharath please clarify.

EDIT: I read it again and am wrong! You dont need an electronic fuel pump, you CJ would have been a 3B otherwise lol
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Old 25th August 2010, 18:04   #1072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
So, the use of yellow light does not help you see better and expends energy to no purpose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by '72 Bullet View Post
I was under the impression that yellow lights offer better penetration and visibility in fog as well
Purpose of yellow light is because others can see you better. (key factor for safety) Otherwise it works the same.
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Old 25th August 2010, 20:52   #1073
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Hi,
My 340 runs fine (well, OK, not fine) without any additional pumps. One thing I'm careful about is the cleanliness of the full fuel system.

I have twice faced maddening problems.
The line till the FIP is under negative pressure. Leakage will cause air to get into the system, rather than fuel seeping out. Very difficult to detect.
The second one was also because of negative pressure. I had tied the fuel hose to the chassis (thinking it would be less vulnerable). During high speed runs it would collapse, stalling the engine. Wait, crank, and it would run perfectly for the next 30 secs. Keep the revs at almost idle, and it would run for hours. (thats how I brought it back to civilisation)

One question. Why didn't you use the fast idle control?

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 25th August 2010, 21:36   #1074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Hi,
My 340 runs fine (well, OK, not fine) without any additional pumps. One thing I'm careful about is the cleanliness of the full fuel system.

I have twice faced maddening problems.
The line till the FIP is under negative pressure. Leakage will cause air to get into the system, rather than fuel seeping out. Very difficult to detect.
The second one was also because of negative pressure. I had tied the fuel hose to the chassis (thinking it would be less vulnerable). During high speed runs it would collapse, stalling the engine. Wait, crank, and it would run perfectly for the next 30 secs. Keep the revs at almost idle, and it would run for hours. (thats how I brought it back to civilisation)

One question. Why didn't you use the fast idle control?

Regards
Sutripta
Same thing with me,those aftermarket pipes collapse some times & is hard to detect .

Also havent heard of a mahindra (peugeot) having a feed pump bet Tank & the FIP .
I have a 540 for 21 years ,have experienced the supply pipe collapse.

Behramjee has rightly said there is no place for extra feed pump.

This FIP hardly goes wrong ,but if it does the only thing to do is get serviced at a proper place (authorised service )

I think Shibuji's & Behramsir's advice combined together will solve the Issue.

Sudarshan
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Old 25th August 2010, 22:39   #1075
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
After refueling at Subramanya, I didn't have any stalling problem for first 100kms. After that it started stalling again very 5-6kms or so whenever I slow down to downshift. Now I started improvising, instead of stopping, I used to fully press the clutch and then release it, achieving a jump start. After a few times I took mercy on the clutch and started stopping again after every stall.

The only silver lining to the whole episode was, I could start in 2-3 cranks after every stall.

Now for the dumb questions:

1) Why the heck do I have a electronic fuel pump?
2) Can't the Bosch FIP do the whole job?
3) What should I do to throw away the electronic fuel pump?

I have been told that the FIP needs to be recalibrated, etc. But I want to understand the full function of the diesel Jeep FIP, and how it works, and why it needs the crutch of EFP sometimes.
Sharath, did you try with fuel lid open? is there a proper breathing for your fuel tank? may be you can try this once before narrowing it down on FIP. try running without fuel lid.
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Old 26th August 2010, 00:33   #1076
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Wow, lots of discussions here. Sorry for the delayed reply, I was driving from Manipal to Bangalore all day. BTW, I did see couple of MGE support team vehicles parked in front of Chikmagalur bus stand, they were there for this weekend MGE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
From all the data, I understand that your FIP is not of CJ340 but from an FJ/FC vehicle with XDP4.90 engine.
No I meant the EFP is of FC. Since my EFP was not working, the mechanic changed it with a FC EFP. The Bosch FIP is still original.

Quote:
Originally Posted by '72 Bullet View Post
1) I don't know about your jeep, but in all probability, I don't think you have an 'electronic' fuel pump. It is an 'electric' fuel pump.
I thought it might have some parts with PN junction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by '72 Bullet View Post
3) You can throw away the electrical fuel pump if you want to, but you would have to replace it with a mechanical system (not sure if it's easily available) also you have to remember that they're obsolete for a reason.
I have been repeatedly asked why I have an EFP, so I figured it a non-OE mod. Apparently Jammy installs a EFP into every Jeep he rebuilds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Sharat - Post 1058 onwards should get back to the 'lost' bible of Jeeps
It's time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreerajunnithan View Post
I never knew that this Electrical/Electronic fuel pump existed in Diesel Vehicles. I thought the entire Job is done by FIP. I have seen this Electronic/Mechanical pump only on Hurricanes. It supplies the fuel to Carb. Are you sure such a thing exists in Diesel engine also?
My Jeep came with the EFP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Sharath - I presume you have a so-called "electronic fuel pump" in your fuel system. If so, you may remove it and throw it out. Maybe it is the root cause of all your troubles. I have never used it so I cannot comment on its characteristics. Maybe before you bought the vehicle, its FIP was not working properly and somebody introduced this electronic fuel pump to tide over the situation.
You are absolutely right. Jammy who sold me the Jeep, installs EFP on all his Jeeps as insurance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
And i think Sharath is referring to solenoid switch pump system (whatever model it is) to the electric pump?? And he wants to know if moving back to the older pump system which has cable shut down thingie which doesnt require power.

Sharath please clarify.
I do have an EFP in addition to the OE Bosch FIP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
One question. Why didn't you use the fast idle control?
When it is stalling, even a floored pedal doesn't help. How will fast idle help since that too is pulling the same lever?

Quote:
Originally Posted by star_aqua View Post
Sharath, did you try with fuel lid open? is there a proper breathing for your fuel tank? may be you can try this once before narrowing it down on FIP. try running without fuel lid.
It was raining most of the time. I'll only get water into the tank.

Thanks everyone for all the info. I have already stripped the winch/trunk/spare-tyre from the Jeep while awaiting for appointment from the mechanic. This is the same mechanic who rebuilds all of Sachin's vehicles, he has 30+ years of experience and highly respected by most mechanics in the whole district. Need to find a Bosch service center for the FIP calibration though. I'll ask the mechanic to make my Jeep EFP free.
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Old 26th August 2010, 12:36   #1077
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Not only FIP but the injectors also, it make a hell lot of difference.
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Old 26th August 2010, 12:50   #1078
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Not only FIP but the injectors also, it make a hell lot of difference.
You mean calibrate the injectors too? Hmm, there is no Bosch authorised service center anywhere in the vicinity.

Bosch - Karnataka

Edit: Apparently these is one in Mangalore, where all the udupi mechanics go.

Last edited by Samurai : 26th August 2010 at 13:01.
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Old 26th August 2010, 14:42   #1079
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Sharat, Yes ^ - caliberate them as a set, makes a lot of difference. In your case I would suggest you drive down to them early one morning, the cheiftan there is trained to remove the 4 inj + FIP from any vehicle, let him remove it and the whole process takes about 2-3 hours (add a few hours for other customers), then refit it there by himself - in this case you can avoid the travel back to m'lore for fine tuning.
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Old 26th August 2010, 20:40   #1080
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
One question. Why didn't you use the fast idle control?

Regards
Sutripta
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
When it is stalling, even a floored pedal doesn't help. How will fast idle help since that too is pulling the same lever?
My question was in view of what you had posted in #1058, namely

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Since Sachin had shown me the way to increase the idle rpm, I decided to fix it while waiting in Beedalli, which is the starting point for trekkers into Pushpagiri hills.
FIC in lieu of fiddling with control lever end stops.


Regards
Sutripta
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