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Old 4th February 2011, 15:21   #1171
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Default Re: Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Sharath - Looking at the photograph, I think the axle articulation control stopper fitted to the chassis of your vehicle has broken. The axle will move up by 99 mm in spike test and the housing will hit the sump. This is the exact reason why we have given IFS in our recently launched vehicle. Please look into and get it replaced.
Yikes, which photograph are you talking about?

By axle articulation control stopper, do you mean the rubber bump stop between chassis and the leaf? I remember UBS saying that it only exists in 540/550 and not in 340.

Last edited by Samurai : 4th February 2011 at 15:23.
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Old 4th February 2011, 20:13   #1172
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I think this , the rubber is not there & why its fitted in your 340 ( if its not a 340 item ) ? Is it originally fitted ? then needs to be renewed .

Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family-s1.jpg

Suddarshan
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Old 4th February 2011, 20:51   #1173
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Default Re: Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family

Oh, that one. UBS made a specific comment about the one. He said only MM540/550 needs that since the leafspring mount point has been moved back. It is not required in SWB Jeeps.
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Old 5th February 2011, 00:37   #1174
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Default Re: Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family

Mr. Behram,

I think many on this Form respect you for your contributions. But I don't think you should be carried away with that.

You give us an MM540 with 60 odd bhp, 180mm ground clearance, 4 speed gearbox, 600x16 tires and you keep saying do not deviate from factory spec. If we didn't deviate from factory spec, the only thing we could do with our jeeps is to show up for the Mahindra Great escapes along with the 2WD Scorpios and Boleros.

Mahindra makes durable and long lasting vehicles for the Jantha, but when it comes to making a true 4x4, Mahindra DON'T KNOW THE HALF OF IT...

Just my 2 cents...

Last edited by 4x4addict : 5th February 2011 at 00:38.
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Old 5th February 2011, 09:43   #1175
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Default Re: Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family

Dear Sharath / Sudarshan - the bump stop is required in CL340 also. The axle orientation with respect to the XDP4.90 engine orientation is essentially the same. Please put it on (Sharath - see, you are still continuing to do something or the other to your vehicle).

Dear 4*4 addict - I appreciate your comment. I don't get carried away by anything. I work in the corporate world and if I had got carried away, many would have happily carried me away and built my tombstone by now. Then they would have said what a great guy I was. You would well imagine how the corporate world works. I am a simple / realistic guy and I believe in saying what I think is correct and what will help the general population, who are now getting increasingly interested in these type of vehicles.

That said, the very fact that you are saying "we gave you 60 BHP / 12 kgm torque up to now" means that now we are giving you something radically different and superior. So, please accept it and enjoy it in your life. Of course I am telling you not to deviate from factory specifications because we have time and again proved to you that the thing does everything that comes its way even if you don't do anything to it. Finally, to each his own.

Vehicles modified according to specific customer needs also deliver the desired result if implemented properly. Here, "implemented, properly" is very important. It is easier said than done. Look at the "dog bone" type shackle plates. They could have been just straight (section modulus matters, nothing else matters) but then one person would not have been able to tell another person that "I have dog bone shackles in my car yaar! You get what I mean?

I hope I have been able to clarify. Times have changed, we need to move on. I trust that you will appreciate my point of view. I appreciate your opinion also. If you have felt bad, I apologise.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 5th February 2011, 10:30   #1176
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Default Re: Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
So, please accept it and enjoy it in your life. Of course I am telling you not to deviate from factory specifications because we have time and again proved to you that the thing does everything that comes its way even if you don't do anything to it. Finally, to each his own.
You are telling this to a guy who is about plonk a toyota engine into his MM540.

Happy Birthday by the way...
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Old 5th February 2011, 11:10   #1177
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Dear Sharath - I have also said, "finally, to each his own". He can plonk anything into any vehicle and there is nothing wrong in doing it on one vehicle, even I had plonked an XDP4.90 into three Ambassador cars way back in 1981. I used to drive at 120 kms per hour with non existent brakes. Everything except the engine broke also. I learnt from it.

So Sharath, now we are talking. This is the main difference in thinking of all v/s us in "Product Engineering - R&D". We have to do everything for production, volumes, marketshare and last but not the least, our very own great godfather, CMVR. Please at least appreciate what we have done.

Thank you for your birthday wishes.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 5th February 2011, 16:42   #1178
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Today got my Jeep to Raju, who is the most popular offroad Jeep mechanic in Bangalore. Jaggu provided the introductions and was there whole time.

Problem list:
1) Replace the broken steering stabilizer L bolt.
2) Replace the broken mirror.

Problem fixed:
1) The steering stabilizer L bolt couldn't be replaced, because my broken bolt was longer than the stock bolt. So they took the broken bolt, welded it back and connected it back.
2) Broken mirror replaced.
3) When I opened the hood, I found diesel all over the engine. One of the fuel return pipe on the injector was leaking. The faulty pipe was replaced.
4) As I looked down casually, I found a major crack about to rupture in the lower water hose. Since I had the spare handy, it was replaced right away.

The steering still has significant play, but nowhere closed to the play with the broken bolt. We discovered that the stopper nut doesn't touch even if the steering is fully locked to one side. It was discovered that the steering idling arm is worn out, inducing the play. This is why I have huge turning radius. I need to replace the idle arm or have it brazed in the lathe.

The water hose crack I discovered...

Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family-img_0093.jpg

Raju looked at the broken hose and said it was of low quality. Then I pulled out my spare hose, Raju looked it and said it was of very good quality. Ironically, the low quality one was bought in Mahindra workshop and high quality one was bought in an independent auto spares shop.

I always have to cut the lower hose by two inches at the bottom in order to fit it. I have always wondered why. Raju provided the answer. You see, I have extra spacer in front of the radiator. Since Suresh Stephan's CJ340 was right there, I could compare.

Suresh Stephan's Radiator is closer to the grill, far from the fan.

Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family-img_0094.jpg

My radiator is closer to the fan thanks to the huge spacer. That is why my hoses always need to be cut.

Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family-img_0095.jpg

Now, what happens if I remove that spacer. Will the cooling come down?
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Old 5th February 2011, 17:21   #1179
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Default Re: Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Look at the "dog bone" type shackle plates. They could have been just straight (section modulus matters, nothing else matters) but then one person would not have been able to tell another person that "I have dog bone shackles in my car yaar!
Sir, The DOG BONE SHACKLE will not have the same effect if straight Sir - I have tried and failed to tell you this

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
This is the main difference in thinking of all v/s us in "Product Engineering - R&D". We have to do everything for production, volumes, marketshare and last but not the least, our very own great godfather, CMVR. Please at least appreciate what we have done.
Sir, I definitely appreciate what you have done - BUT when the competition does better, it is but normal for you to get criticized. Look at the M&M vehicles vs. competition - Competition is leagues ahead in refinement and aesthetics. Only in the 4x4 world you stand alone thanks to Jeep Legacy! You've got a wonderful platform to build / make vehicles superior and hope it does not become a pipe dream. M&M is one of the few organizations to transform itself along the years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Problem fixed:
1) The steering stabilizer L bolt couldn't be replaced, because my broken bolt was longer than the stock bolt. So they took the broken bolt, welded it back and connected it back.
Sharat, please make a new L bracket. This will be better than the welded one which you can keep as a spare!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Now, what happens if I remove that spacer. Will the cooling come down?
Try it and educate us please
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Old 5th February 2011, 17:28   #1180
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Post Good quality hoses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I need to replace the idle arm or have it brazed in the lathe.
Brazed in the lathe?? Did not understand.

Sam, the best material for radiator applications is EPDM.
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These have the best heat and weather resistance when compared to the hoses shown above, they don't become brittle (like the failed part) over a period of time. The only way they fail is if they have a cut / puncture (from a sharp object) or the hose exceeds its burst pressure limit (very less likely in modern systems). I really doubt if hoses having profiles suitable for CJ 340 application will be available, but can be adapted by using metal sleeves in between, this will cure all your worries regarding the radiator hoses.

BTW, why is the spacer present in the very first place? There are empirical relations between the positioning of radiator, fan and shroud which aids in maximum cooling, if this changes the cooling gets affected. Although how much cooling gets affected depends on the nature of change in the associated systems.

Spike

PS- The hoses shown in pic although will work are best suited for other applications.
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Old 5th February 2011, 17:47   #1181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Now, what happens if I remove that spacer. Will the cooling come down?
Your jeep engine fan blade will move away from the housing and result in lesser cooling. If you remove the spacer, you need to find a different pulley attachment or put a spacer in between the fan such that the blades sit inside the shroud around an inch or inch and half away from the radiator. If the gap is less, there is a risk of fan touching the radiator under unfortunate circumstance of engine moving to the front. I understand the spike arrestor at gear box is to prevent this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Brazed in the lathe?? Did not understand.

Sam, the best material for radiator applications is EPDM.
Spikee is there a key at the idler arm, Raju felt its wearing out and needs to be attended soon to avoid a steering failure. So he suggested taking it to a lathe so that they can fix it, dont know how it is done. Though he also said to replace if new part is available. The play in the system is also preventing full turn in's.

The EPDM hose i got from delhi also have started cracking in DwArF, i need to figure out similar hose from other vehicle (maybe turbo plumbing) and get it sorted out.

Last edited by Jaggu : 5th February 2011 at 17:49.
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Old 5th February 2011, 17:52   #1182
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Default Re: Good quality hoses

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
These have the best heat and weather resistance when compared to the hoses shown above, they don't become brittle (like the failed part) over a period of time. The only way they fail is if they have a cut / puncture (from a sharp object) or the hose exceeds its burst pressure limit (very less likely in modern systems). I really doubt if hoses having profiles suitable for CJ 340 application will be available, but can be adapted by using metal sleeves in between, this will cure all your worries regarding the radiator hoses.

BTW, why is the spacer present in the very first place? There are empirical relations between the positioning of radiator, fan and shroud which aids in maximum cooling, if this changes the cooling gets affected. Although how much cooling gets affected depends on the nature of change in the associated systems.
Hey Spike:

I got these "new" hoses for my 540 last week - Infact thought them to be inferior only to be told they are superior. They are softer and flexible than the older hoses we used.

Can you explain the empirical relation between the positioning of the radiator, fan and shroud that aids in maximum cooling? In laymans terms please?

I believe if the spacer is removed, radiator moved forward, and the fan shrouded properly, you WILL get similar cooling. Not much difference there.

The real advantage will be in a OTR situation where the jeep goes nose first into a 40 deg V pit. In this scenario, the front end [read radiator] tends to flex and the fan touches the radiator damaging the same. If there is more space it would allow even more flex!

Proper shrouding is essential to improve the cooling even if the fan is a little away from the radiator.

Why that spacer is there in front of the radiator is due to some manufacturing standardization I guess.
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Old 5th February 2011, 17:59   #1183
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Default Re: Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family

No headers in Samurai's case if he removes the spacer the fan blade will be around .5 inch outside the shroud. Suresh stephen's jeep has this problem.

I was fortunate to have the blade positing in perfect stock position in DwArF

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...e-img_0903.jpg
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Old 5th February 2011, 18:20   #1184
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Default Re: Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post

Spikee is there a key at the idler arm, Raju felt its wearing out and needs to be attended soon to avoid a steering failure. So he suggested taking it to a lathe so that they can fix it, dont know how it is done.

Jaggu, there is play in the steering because the part has / must have worn out, that means material has eroded. In a lathe generally material is removed, by brazing you actually fill / add material, hence my query.

The EPDM hose i got from delhi also have started cracking in DwArF,
Those must be bad quality hoses :-P, any pics of the same?
My reply in bold above^^

Quote:
I understand the spike arrestor at gear box is to prevent this.
Spike
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Old 5th February 2011, 18:44   #1185
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Default Re: Mahindra CJ340 joins Team-BHP family

^^^ I think he meant brazing and then machining it, my guess. I really did not explore further.

I dont have the picture right now, will take next time and post, but it is similar to first hose cracks posted by Samurai. Only the vertical cracks, no horizontal tears. Oh and what is your opinion of putting that thermo stat clutch type fan blade thingie on our old jeeps??

Forgot a very happy birthday to Behram!

EDIT: @Samurai: replace the L bolt (if you find it) and the complete injector return rubber pipes once you get to Manipal

Last edited by Jaggu : 5th February 2011 at 18:46.
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